Cherry shrimp dying after water change

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houiej

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Hi all,

I have two planted tanks that I added cherry shrimp to. One is a 42 gallon community tank with male guppies, panda cory cats, cherry barbs and harlequin rasboras. The second tank is a 25 gallon tank with male and female guppies and panda cory cats. As far as I know, all my fishes can co-exist peacefully with cherry shrimp. The shrimp were slowly acclimated by a drip valve over four hours when first bought.

I noticed that I have encountered shrimp deaths after each water change since then. My water change procedure is like this: 20% water change once a week with Seachem Prime as water conditioner.

Every alternate day I dose Seachem Excel as well as Seachem Flourish for my plants. I checked and Flourish has copper sulfate I think. I read somewhere that copper sulfate is okay because it's not a form of copper that is dangerous to the shrimp.

If the shrimp is only dying after a water change, is it Prime or the plant ferts that are killing them? Or could it be the water (change of temperature). I didn't think a 20% change affects that much other than removing nitrates.

Any thoughts?
 

maxima423

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i know these little fellas are very sensitive so i dont know much about shrimp but maybe its the swing of temps in a fast pace that killed them, when i do my friends water change, he always tells me to add some of the tank water so the temps could be a close match to each other ( of course after you add the dechlor )
 

yallyall1

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I recall nutter saying that flourish is OK for verts, but I think he said that you use a half dose or something. not sure about the exel though...
 

hyun007

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I suspect it is prime.
I have seen someone experience that with CRS(even more fragile that RCS).

I will suggest that that get some pails and let the water stand overnight with the prime.

Water temperature can also shocked the shrimp as well.

Do check whether they are dead or it is their molting skin.
Shrimps like to molt after water change.
It could be just their dead skin.
 
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houiej

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I suspect it is prime.
I have seen someone experience that with CRS(even more fragile that RCS).

I will suggest that that get some pails and let the water stand overnight with the prime.

Water temperature can also shocked the shrimp as well.

Do check whether they are dead or it is their molting skin.
Shrimps like to molt after water change.
It could be just their dead skin.
Is there something in Prime that is harmful to them? I've never read anywhere that Prime and shrimp don't go together.
 

hyun007

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Is there something in Prime that is harmful to them? I've never read anywhere that Prime and shrimp don't go together.
How do you normally add the water and prime?
It is unwise to add in water and then Prime or the other way round.
The best way is to mix them in a bucket and before putting the water in.
If you can leave them overnight, that is even better.

Below is an interesting link which can give you some ideas.
If it works for CRS then it should work even better for RCS, as CRS is more fragile than RCS.

http://www.aquaticquotient.com/forum/showthread.php/58628-Is-water-change-necessary-for-shrimp-setups
 

hyun007

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I've used prime with my shrimp with no problems whatsoever
Sometime it also depend on how you mixed your prime.
Example, mixing it in a bucket first and then pour into the tank is different with people who pour in water and then mixed with prime or pour prime first then water.

Some people left their mixed overnight or even couple of nights to change the water.

Also, different country and state has different water parameter.
 
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Kunsthure

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RCS are very hardy as far as dwarf shrimp go.

Prime and Flourish are invert safe, and do not require smaller doses. I use Prime in all of my tanks, and Flourish in my planted tanks, and all three tanks have thriving dwarf shrimp populations. I don't use Excel so I can't say. Large amounts of copper, not just traces, are what hurt shrimp. And there is still debate about copper and its effect on shrimp, so it's not a definite.

Prime's directions say it's better to dose the water being replaced, but it's also fine to dose the whole tank *before* adding the new water. I dose the whole tank and haven't had a problem.

My feeling is that it's temp shock if they are indeed dying. But hyun is right, water changes often trigger molting, so maybe you're seeing molts and not dead shrimp. What do the shrimp look like? If it's a white shrimp shape, it's a molt; if it's a solid, pinkish color body, it's a dead shrimp.

-Lisa
 

jclee

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RCS are very hardy as far as dwarf shrimp go.

Prime and Flourish are invert safe, and do not require smaller doses. I use Prime in all of my tanks, and Flourish in my planted tanks, and all three tanks have thriving dwarf shrimp populations. I don't use Excel so I can't say. Large amounts of copper, not just traces, are what hurt shrimp. And there is still debate about copper and its effect on shrimp, so it's not a definite.
Yeah, I've also read that elemental copper, and not copper compounds (like copper sulphate) is what hurts shrimp, so IF that's true, that would rule out the copper sulphate in your fertilizers as a cause. We might be back to square one.

I suppose my next question is how established are these tanks? How long have they been up and running? RCS really prefer aged tanks with a mature cycle.
 
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houiej

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When doing 20% water changes, I mix Prime with new tap water in a bucket before pouring it immediately into the tank. I don't leave it overnight so the water is not aged at all.

I see solid orange shrimp lying on the sand, not whitish molts. The deaths are confirmed also because I see less live shrimp swimming about.

So if it's not Prime or the Seachem ferts that are killing them, maybe it is the temperature changes or the water parameters.

My tanks were started two months ago and have cycled for at least a month. I used Seachem Stability to speed it up and for a month, readings have been 0 for ammonia and nitrites, 10-20 for nitrates.

I just bought Fire REd Sakura shrimp today from my LFS so we'll see. They are supposedly more hardy than RCS and also they are a more intense red in color. More expensive too!
 

Vash

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Do smaller water change.

I found out that they don't like water change at all.

I bought 12 originally. Because my tank wasn't cycled, I had to place them in an one gallon container. It wasn't a good idea. I had to change water every day to keep the water clean. I lost 7 of them in the course of 3 weeks. It seems they would try to molt after water change, and many failed to do so and just died.
While my tank still had no sign of making progress in cycle, I figured they would have better chance in the tank. I moved the remaining 5 into the 10 gallon tank. I lost one to god knows where the night I transferred them. I just don't see all 5 any more. But for the next 1 month, the remaining 4 are fine. They even withstood two weeks of ammonia of 0.25~0.5, although they turned pale. Once the water condition improved, they turned more red. Anyway, I now do 5~10% water change only. I use Prime and Aquasafe. I dose them into the water and let the water sit for a day before use.
 

LyndaB

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You probably should've held off on purcashing more shrimp until the reason for your shrimp deaths can be figured out. :-\
 
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houiej

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I might have detected the cause of their death. I just looked at JBL's Ferrotabs tablet fertilizer, which I add once fortnightly and copper is one of the trace elements listed. That must be what is killing my shrimp. I shall stop using it in my shrimp tank and just use Seachem Flourish and Excel in that case.

Thanks for all the help and valuable advice.
 
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