Cherry Shrimp dropping like flies

THamilton

Hi, I have 10 red cherry shrimp in a cycled 5g for 2 months and had 1 out of 3 females even give birth 2 weeks ago. But this morning I found 5 adults dead and then by evening, I lost 2 more. One of the males is swimming sideways and looks like he can only move his back swimmerets and not his front legs. One of my pregnant females is still eating and there are a number of shrimp fry still eating and active.

What could be killing off all the adults within a day? There have been no changes for the last month. And all my water tests are normal.

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank? 5g
How long has the tank been running? 2 months+
Does it have a filter? Two. A hob and dual sponge filter
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 71-72F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.) 10 cherry shrimp, about 10 shrimp fry from what I can see, Malaysian Trumpet snails, pond snails and Ramshorn snails, detritus worms

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Every week
How much of the water do you change? 20-30%
What do you use to treat your water? Seachem Prime
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Yes every week until the last 2 weeks when I found shrimp fry. Then only water changes.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes
What do you use to test the water? API master kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite:0
Nitrate: 0
pH:7.4-7.6

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Every day
How much do you feed your fish? Very small pinch
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Bacter AE, Hikari algae wafers, Shrimp Baby, Shrimp Fit
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? Only 1 time a month ago with frozen blood worms

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 2 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? 1 day
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Possible black spots near head
Have you started any treatment for the illness? No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? No eating, swimming sideways

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now) 60% of adult population found dead with no warning today. Shrimp fry and 1 female seem fine, active and eating.

Nothing has changed and TDS is reading 150.

Could it be rust disease? But not evident on all dead shrimp. Pls see pics.

What should I do next esp with all the shrimp fry? Should I try to net them all and put into a quarantine tank?


20210223_095931.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 20210223_155009.jpg
    20210223_155009.jpg
    116.6 KB · Views: 36
  • 20210223_095831.jpg
    20210223_095831.jpg
    118.1 KB · Views: 37

Spudsssy

Did they happen to die after water change? From your description everything looks fine to me.

Only thing I can think of is something temporarily toxic in your water supply....

Iv had mass deaths of cherry shrimp after airpump broke and I was away... But it sounds like your tank is well oxyginated.
 
Upvote 0

THamilton

No. I did a water change a week ago without gravel vac. After finding the first group of deaths in the morning, I did a 30% wc today.
 
Upvote 0

Madison08

I'm not all too knowledgeable in what is going on here, so I'm not much help in that aspect (hopefully someone who recognises what's going on chimes in and can help), but I did want to wish you good luck and that I hope the rest of your shrimp stay doing well and you're able to resolve this problem. Cherry shrimp hold a special place in my heart so I know how hard it can be to lose them, especially when you don't know why they've died.

If anymore die or start with the odd behaviour, I might consider moving them to your quarantine tank. Preferably if you don't have to, leave them be, but if you need to, you need to.

Edit: After some researching, I would look at bacterial infections/diseases and the substrate. The closest thing I can find that seems similar to your situation is something called black spot disease, or Chitinolytic bacterial disease (you mentioned rust disease, I believe these two are the same thing, just different names). I don't know if this is this disease, it's just the closest thing I can find that matches your pictures and what you've described. You've said in the last two weeks you've stopped vacuuming the substrate because of babies, on the list of causes for this disease, the substrate not being clean enough is one of them. Maybe see if you can do your best to vacuum the substrate around the shrimplets? If you do, use a bucket you can see them in so if you happen to suck up some babies, you can more easily see them and net them back into your tank. Try and go slow to give them time to move as well if you can or spot clean where you can see debris.

Other causes are the shrimp being unhealthy or injured, excess nitrates (but you have none so that's not it), and chemical imbalance.

Still reading myself, but hopefully this helps!

Edit 2: I guess there are some medications you can use to help treat this as well, maybe look into those if you think you need to medicate.
 
Upvote 0

richiep

Looking at those pictures it's not rust spot/black spot it's not evident.
What I believe I'm looking at is
Muscular Necrosis
If you still have the dead shrimp I'd like to see them in a clear plastic tube like my picture
 

Attachments

  • 20191019_122501 (2).jpg
    20191019_122501 (2).jpg
    342.8 KB · Views: 31
Upvote 0

THamilton

Thank you for all your replies. I was scared what I would see this morning but was glad to see my last pregnant female still eating and some shrimplets.
But I don't see any other adults. I found some molts from the other day but that's it.

Here are some closer pics from a clear cup as well as my last living adult female. Any ideas what happened and what to do next?
I can quarantine the female and shrimplets I find but I'm concerned that the move will further stress them out and kill them as well.
 

Attachments

  • 20210224_091323.jpg
    20210224_091323.jpg
    147.6 KB · Views: 33
  • 20210224_081532.jpg
    20210224_081532.jpg
    112.3 KB · Views: 35
  • 20210224_081347.jpg
    20210224_081347.jpg
    101.4 KB · Views: 34
  • 20210224_091711.jpg
    20210224_091711.jpg
    89.9 KB · Views: 34
  • 20210224_091656.jpg
    20210224_091656.jpg
    91.3 KB · Views: 30
  • 20210224_091649.jpg
    20210224_091649.jpg
    93.1 KB · Views: 31
  • 20210224_091608.jpg
    20210224_091608.jpg
    95.5 KB · Views: 32
Upvote 0

PeteStevers

Research "White ring of death". You need to do smaller water changes for one. Also, if you aren't already, you need to start using shrimp mineral additives (like salty shrimp). This provides all the minerals they need to be healthy and promote proper molting. Also, I have a fluval stratum substrate and there is no vacuuming that. I haven't vacuumed my substrate in years and my population is growing well. I don't think it has to do with dirty substrate IMO. Are you using RO water or just tap? Tap water should help with adding minerals but, who knows what else is in it.
 
Upvote 0

THamilton

Forgot to mention that my cherry shrimp are Rili shrimp so they have a clear white abdomen and can look like they have a white ring of death.

But I'll also do some research into white ring of death.

After much reflection, I don't think it was something that poisoned the water like soap on my hands because then the shrimplets would have died first.

So what could have killed all the adults except for the pregnant female and shrimplets all in the same day??
 
Upvote 0

Theulli

You mention detritus worms. Are you sure they aren’t plenaria?
 
Upvote 0

THamilton

I have detritus white segmented round worms that I've seen when I gravel vac'd my gravel. I have no sand.

I've also seen very small rhabdocoela, not the dangerous triangular headed flatworm. It's a round headed flatworm that is found on glass and is supposedly harmless.

Btw I have Java moss and driftwood in the tank and the Java moss is growing well, if that helps.
 
Upvote 0

ProudPapa

. . . After much reflection, I don't think it was something that poisoned the water like soap on my hands because then the shrimplets would have died first.

So what could have killed all the adults except for the pregnant female and shrimplets all in the same day??

Not necessarily. Juveniles are better able to tolerate some things, such as changes in pH. That's why many experienced shrimp keepers that sell shrimp would rather sell juveniles. They're better able to survive the transplanting to new water conditions.
 
Upvote 0

Cherryshrimp420

The water parameters are a bit suspicious. There should be a slight nitrate reading if the tank is cycled based on the amount of feeding.
 
Upvote 0

Mandy627

What is your GH and KH, I'm sorry if you already posted it, I couldn't find those readings. Shrimp at bottom of petri dish looks like is has a white crack that is similar to white ring of death. I'm not a shrimp pro, but I have learned through people on this thread that its very important to test gH and KH. I also agree that having 0 for nitrates is a tad suspicious as far a cycling goes.
 
Upvote 0

Cherryshrimp420

I don't see any white rings of death. It's just the natural rili coloration. I would be more concern about sudden ammonia, nitrites spikes ,introduction of toxic chemicals (eg. copper) more than anything else because they died in such a short timespan
 
Upvote 0

Mandy627

I don't see any white rings of death. It's just the natural rili coloration. I would be more concern about sudden ammonia, nitrites spikes ,introduction of toxic chemicals (eg. copper) more than anything else because they died in such a short timespan

20210224_112327.jpg this was the only thing I meant, just a possible small crack but you are right they all look ok and is probably copper etc. I just remember I had a shrimp with small crack in it when I first started with shrimp and it looked like that then got worse before it died of moulting issue. Curious what the Gh and KH is since all other readings are 0.
 
Upvote 0

THamilton

Thanks for all the feedback. My GH =10 and KH= 8. PH 7.4-7.6. Tds=150.
I'm desperate for solutions so has anyone tried 3% Hydogen peroxide like this guy? Seems to work on all these tanks even with shrimp fry.

Or I can do a 100% water change and remove the female and whatever fry I can find (any tips on how to ensure I get all of them ) and put them into a fresh uncycled quarantine tank while I bleach the current tank.

I'm tempted to use the hydrogen peroxide to kill any bacteria/fungus/detritus worms/round planaria in the tank.
 
Upvote 0

Cherryshrimp420

Thanks for all the feedback. My GH =10 and KH= 8. PH 7.4-7.6. Tds=150.
I'm desperate for solutions so has anyone tried 3% Hydogen peroxide like this guy? Seems to work on all these tanks even with shrimp fry.

Or I can do a 100% water change and remove the female and whatever fry I can find (any tips on how to ensure I get all of them ) and put them into a fresh uncycled quarantine tank while I bleach the current tank.

I'm tempted to use the hydrogen peroxide to kill any bacteria/fungus/detritus worms/round planaria in the tank.

I don't think it's caused by any organisms. More like some water parameter issue. Or even a faulty heater.

I would figure out why nitrate readings are 0 first. Basically figure out if the tank is actually cycled or not.
 
Upvote 0

THamilton

First thing i did was check the heater and it's holding steady at 71.5F.
Nitrates are like 1-2ppm (dark yellow versus light yellow/orange). I assumed the low to nil nitrates were because of my Java moss, tiny bioload from 10 adult cherries and ab 10 snails, plus 2 cycled filters (hob and dual sponge filter).
But I bought another API Freshwater Master Kit today in case my kit is defective and will check the readings again.
Bought a new Master kit for the sake of diagnosing what killed most of my adult shrimp and mostly to save my remaining shrimp fry and last remaining pregnant female.
Reading is similar with ammonia=0, Nitrite=0, Nitrate=less than 5 (dark yellow).
GH=10 (Tap water =8)
KH= 6 (Tap water=5)

Anyone have recommendations on which option I should do today?

1. Since female pregnant shrimp and fry still alive and eating... Do nothing but 30% (50%?) wc every two days/everyday?

2. Use 3% hydrogen peroxide like Mark's shrimp tanks (see link) and hope that any bad bacteria/fungus/worms will die off

3. Move all living shrimp to uncycled quarantine tank and bleach current tank but concerned I may not find all shrimplets and stressing pregnant shrimp
 
Upvote 0

richiep


20210224_112327.jpg this was the only thing I meant, just a possible small crack but you are right they all look ok and is probably copper etc. I just remember I had a shrimp with small crack in it when I first started with shrimp and it looked like that then got worse before it died of moulting issue. Curious what the Gh and KH is since all other readings are 0.
Thsts not a white ring of death
You need to take a good look at what I'm showing here and as far as I'm concerned it's Muscular Necrosis
It's not ring of death it's not black spot disease, it's not lack of minerals
It's bacterial and the white you see is the dead sells in the shrimp.
Shrimp don't just die in mass unless you have a problem
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20210224-221408_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20210224-221408_Chrome.jpg
    75.6 KB · Views: 21
  • Screenshot_20210224-221457_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20210224-221457_Chrome.jpg
    10.3 KB · Views: 24
  • Screenshot_20210224-221529_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20210224-221529_Chrome.jpg
    65.1 KB · Views: 21
Upvote 0

THamilton

Thanks for your insight richiep! Decided to add 3% hydrogen peroxide at 1.5mL per gallon to hopefully remove some bacteria. Glad to report that after 2 hrs, the pregnant female is still active and eating and I saw about 5 shrimp fry looking fine. Snails seem fine too. Added some Bacter AE to make up for any lost biofilm.
 
Upvote 0

THamilton

Woke up today and was scared on what I would find. But was very glad to see that the pregnant female was active and even started eating the Hikari algae wafer I gave her as reward for bring a survivor. And I saw fry around too. Less snails and worms.

So I'll check my ammonia and nitrates and make sure there are no spikes.

Not sure about next steps whether I need to do a water change now or dose again soon.

To live another day....
 
Upvote 0

PeteStevers

Just wondering if the loss was just due to adults being moved to a tank with new parameters. The first time I tried shrimp, I didn't really know as much as I do now and lost them all over a period of a couple of months. The second time, I got a mix of adults and juveniles and that was 2 years ago. Population is very strong now even with a tank full of tetras.
 
Upvote 0

THamilton

Thanks PeteStevers. I agree with you but its still surprising that all the adults died on the same day except a pregnant female and some shrimplets.
Glad to say that the pregnant female and shrimplets are still alive and eating after the hydrogen peroxide treatment.
Water parameters are still good with ammonia=0, nitrite=0, Nitrate=2-3. GH=10, KH=6.
 
Upvote 0

Similar Aquarium Threads

  • Question
Replies
4
Views
298
FishSupreme
Replies
15
Views
1K
richiep
Replies
11
Views
690
Rebecca1985
  • Question
Replies
3
Views
201
Idkitsathrowaway
Replies
9
Views
431
Catsatonic

Random Great Thread!

Latest Aquarium Threads

Top Bottom