Changing to an External Filter?

I have a Jewel Rio 180, which is a closed lid and has a built-in filter.

I'd like to add an external filter into the mix (something like the Fluval 07) and, after a few months, I'd plan to rip out the internal filter for various reasons including space, having no need for it as the external filter would do the job better etc.

My question is; can I incorporate the external filter into my closed lid tank somehow, without the need to drill holes into the cabinet/bottom of the tank?

 

You won't need to go through the bottom - you'd just need to put the canister in the unit underneath and run the pipes behind the tank and up through the lid. You will probably need to cut holes in the lid for that purpose but most tanks have them marked out already.

 

Thanks carsonsgjs! The only pre-cut holes this tank has are the ones attached to these (attached).

Would they be suitable for running an external filter?

I assume an external filter would be worlds apart compared to my internal one?

 

Thanks carsonsgjs! The only pre-cut holes this tank has are the ones attached to these (attached).

Would they be suitable for running an external filter?

I assume an external filter would be worlds apart compared to my internal one?

If I'm looking at the photos correctly at the back of the lid you should have two notches in the tank trim at either end - the intake would sit in one and the outtake would sit in the other. Then you would just have to cut the lid flap to accommodate the pipe. Here's a pic of one of my tanks to give you an example.

 

Oh I see. I have one of these holes at either end of the tank, I assume that's what I would feed it into?

Could I trouble you for a picture of how you have the intake/outtake set-up in that tank? Do you just have them hanging down, fitted to the glass, or something else?

Do you find external filters provide a lot better filtration than built-in ones?

Thanks for all the help

 

Oh I see. I have one of these holes at either end of the tank, I assume that's what I would feed it into?

Could I trouble you for a picture of how you have the intake/outtake set-up in that tank? Do you just have them hanging down, fitted to the glass, or something else?

Do you find external filters provide a lot better filtration than built-in ones?

Thanks for all the help

No problem. Here's a pic of one of my other tanks - Fluval 307 fitted with a full length spray bar. The kit comes with a number of suction pads so you can secure the intake and output pipes in place against the glass.

In terms of performance, I prefer canisters over internals. It frees up space and I find them easier to maintain. That's not to say internals don't have their use though - I still run a Fluval U3 on one of my other tanks with a 206 as well.

 

Excellent, thank you for all the help

 

Follow up questions -

1. Does anybody have any recommendations for a good external filter for a 180 Litre tank? I was thinking either a Fluval 207 or 307?
2. Would an external filter make my water "clearer"? I know it'll provide better filtration, but does that mean healthier for my fish, visibly clearer, all of the above?

Thanks!

 

Sorry devsi there are very few short answers from me.

I really don’t want to start an argument devsi , but you have asked a question and I would like to answer it? And at the same time give an opinion based on visiting local club members fish rooms.

One club member had ( before moving rooms) a sump filter on each side of his room approximately 15 feet long a couple of feet wide and a couple of feet deep. He had plastic milk grates full of ceramic media as well as plastic supermarket shopping baskets full of ceramic media . Basically two filters that did the tanks on each side of the room a few hundred gallons each . When raising fry he was doing water changes before breakfast and after work every day.

Another club member has a room with admittedly smaller tanks around 180 litres and less but each tank has only one sponge filter.

Both gentlemen regularly bring fish to auction.

The point is we all do things differently and there is no correct way

You are probably aware of the 3 kinds of filtration we have. Mechanical, Biological and Chemical.

Lets forget about chemical ( Carbon) as that might only be used to remove medications .

Mechanical = picking up solids.
Any solids in a filter are still in the water until the filter is cleaned or emptied by the human.
Big chunks of poop and fine solids including uneaten food. All need to be taken out of the filter before they are out of the tank.

Biological filtration. That is done by the bacteria ON hard surfaces in a tank . Mostly in and on the filter. Definitely the most important of the 3 kinds. However the end result is still toxic nitrates that can only be removed with a water change. Unless you have an auto water change system the human does it . Most often at least once a week.


Now to answer your question.
A canister filter will have the same amount of bacteria ( biological filtration) as an internal filter. The same tank with 2 canister filters will still have the same amount of bacteria. A tank with 3 canister filters 2 hang on back filters and a 200 gallon sump will still have the same amount of bacteria. In other words nothing in the way of biological filtration is to be gained by having a canister/ external filter. Nothing in the way of biological filtration is to be gained by having a very large canister filter.

A canister filter/ external filter will pick up solids better than a sponge filter. You can go up to 12 months without emptying the canister. All that means is the poop can’t be seen. But 12 months worth of poop is still in the water. A basic sponge filter needs cleaning approximately every month or two . All filters only store the solids in the water.

To answer your question.

#1
My recommendation is to get a couple of filters.
Yes a canister if you want. By having two or threes filters you can clean one this month and have the others undisturbed.

#2
It is the size of the foam pores inside any filter that picks up the fine particles ( solids) . Having floss ( pillow stuffing) in any filter is the way to have clear water. Floss or pillow stuffing blocks easy and needs a rinse more often that foam.
It is necessary to remove and replace water to keep fish healthy.
It is necessary to remove and replace water to keep fish alive.
It is necessary to remove water often to keep fish alive and healthy.

Now a picture of what you are looking for .


This is THE thing you need in any filter to have water that looks clean. Notice I wrote looks clear and clean.
Using floss/ pillow stuffing will remove fine particles but it will not mean the water is safe for fish.

If you got this far ?, here is a link
Aqua One Filter Wool Coarse 200x25cm (10392) 9325136126945 | eBay

A link to how you can go 12 months without removing poop from your tank.

 

Sorry devsi there are very few short answers from me.

I really appreciate the detailed and lengthy reply

#1
My recommendation is to get a couple of filters.
Yes a canister if you want. By having two or threes filters you can clean one this month and have the others undisturbed.

So, I currently have my internal filter (which I clean every week) and a sponge filter (which I clean every now and again).

I'd be looking to replace both the internal and the sponge filter with a canister filter, or maybe keeping the sponge filter as well if that's better.

It is necessary to remove and replace water to keep fish healthy.
It is necessary to remove and replace water to keep fish alive.
It is necessary to remove water often to keep fish alive and healthy.

Just to clarify, I'm not looking at a canister filter to reduce the burden of water changes. I'm looking at them so I can rip out the internal filter and give my fish more room.

I'll still be doing a weekly water change, even if I do get a canister filter.

Perhaps the only thing that will change is, instead of cleaning my internal filter weekly, I'll clean the canister monthly.

If you got this far ?, here is a link
Aqua One Filter Wool Coarse 200x25cm (10392) 9325136126945 | eBay

Thank you

And this would just be put in the filter (internal/canister) as well as the existing filter media?

A link to how you can go 12 months without removing poop from your tank.

 

I understand where you are coming from with wanting to give the fish more swimming room .

Perhaps what you really need is a bigger tank?

 

Now to answer your question.
A canister filter will have the same amount of bacteria ( biological filtration) as an internal filter. The same tank with 2 canister filters will still have the same amount of bacteria. A tank with 3 canister filters 2 hang on back filters and a 200 gallon sump will still have the same amount of bacteria. In other words nothing in the way of biological filtration is to be gained by having a canister/ external filter. Nothing in the way of biological filtration is to be gained by having a very large canister filter.

I understand what you are saying here - a tank will build bacteria colonies to match the bioload of the tank. However, I think it's important to note that bigger filters, multiple filters, or filters capable of holding more biomedia certainly increase the CAPACITY of the ability to grow bacteria (and how often the water is moved through the bacteria), and thus the capacity of how much bioload a tank can handle.

So if someone already has adequate filtration for the bioload and doesn't want to change anything that would impact the bioload, changing filters won't impact much. But if someone is running close to max or wants to increase bioload, a better or bigger filter can absolutely make that situation safer.

And as you also said, bigger filters like canisters that allow you to add better mechanical media (i.e. foam or floss) and/or allow you to pump the water through more often can definitely help with how clear the water looks.

 

That’s a good point CMT .

Here is something to think about, that I have pondered but still don’t have a fixed opinion on.


Is it better to have water passing over media fast or slow? Is it more efficient for water to spend time near where the bacteria are or to go around again and again passing the bacteria quickly but many times per hour ? Or does it make no difference ?

 

Perhaps what you really need is a bigger tank?

I don't necessarily NEED a bigger tank, or even more room in the tank, it just seemed like a no-brainer to add a canister filter and give them more room anyway....

bigger filters like canisters that allow you to add better mechanical media (i.e. foam or floss) and/or allow you to pump the water through more often can definitely help with how clear the water looks.

Does the foam/floss just go in filter, with the existing filter media, or is it supposed to replace the media in the filter?

 

Floss will need cleaning very often .Making it not suitable for a canister that does not need to be opened often.
Foam will need to be cleaned less often and ceramic media can go months without a rinse.


Floss is not a permanent addition to a filter. Many people throw it away instead of rinsing. It can be rinsed many times and reused but you get your hands dirty.

Floss is not considered to a home for bacteria because it is replaced or rinsed often, but like any hard surface bacteria is on it.

 

Got it. Thank you.

And the eBay link you shared - is that Floss or Foam?

 

The eBay link is just a picture of a bag of aquarium wool also called floss. It’s the same thing as pillow/ cushion stuffing. However some stuffing has a flame retardant chemical that will kill fish.

 

Does the foam/floss just go in filter, with the existing filter media, or is it supposed to replace the media in the filter?

It depends on which filter. Every filter is designed a little differently. In theory, it can go in any part of the filter where mechanical filtration happens (i.e. before the biological media). In practice, it really should be placed after a more course mode of mechanical filtration (i.e. lower density foam). If the floss is doing most of the mechanical filtration it will clog quickly. You want it to only get smaller particles than can pass through otherwise.

I have an FX6 and I just fill one of the trays with a layer of polyfill (water does not reach the polyfill until after it passes through the coarse foam and the "biofoam", so it is only removing the tiniest of particles. I do keep it in all the time. I clean my filter about once every 3 months. The polyfill gets tossed and replaced with new. All the foam and the biological media just get rinsed out in tank water.

That’s a good point CMT .

Here is something to think about, that I have pondered but still don’t have a fixed opinion on.


Is it better to have water passing over media fast or slow? Is it more efficient for water to spend time near where the bacteria are or to go around again and again passing the bacteria quickly but many times per hour ? Or does it make no difference ?

It is an interesting question. For mechanical filtration I think it's clear - the more times the water passes through the better.

I am not a biologist, but even for biological filtration, I would believe you need the water to come into contact with the bacteria as often as possible, rather than for as long as possible. I don't believe the interchange of the ammonia/nitrite through the bacteria cell membrane requires a "soaking" period. It happens relatively instantaneously when compared to how we see time. But perhaps someone who has done more than just studied the basics of cellular biology can confirm or correct me.

 

The eBay link is just a picture of a bag of aquarium wool also called floss. It’s the same thing as pillow/ cushion stuffing. However some stuffing has a flame retardant chemical that will kill fish.

Got it. Thank you.

I'm assuming the "foam" is what would come with a filter, i.e. the sponges?

It depends on which filter. Every filter is designed a little differently. In theory, it can go in any part of the filter where mechanical filtration happens (i.e. before the biological media). In practice, it really should be placed after a more course mode of mechanical filtration (i.e. lower density foam). If the floss is doing most of the mechanical filtration it will clog quickly. You want it to only get smaller particles than can pass through otherwise.

Excellent, thank you. Looking at the Fluval canister filters, they all come with sponges so it would just be a case of loading it up with my existing filter media as well?

I have an FX6 and I just fill one of the trays with a layer of polyfill (water does not reach the polyfill until after it passes through the coarse foam and the "biofoam", so it is only removing the tiniest of particles. I do keep it in all the time. I clean my filter about once every 3 months. The polyfill gets tossed and replaced with new. All the foam and the biological media just get rinsed out in tank water.

How do you find the FX6? It looks like massive overkill for a 180 Litre, as it's rated for almost ten times that (1500), or is there a good reason to go for that over a 307/407?

It's a shame none of the Fluvals mentioned allow for a heater to be added to the canister filter.

 

How do you find the FX6? It looks like massive overkill for a 180 Litre, as it's rated for almost ten times that (1500), or is there a good reason to go for that over a 307/407?

It's a shame none of the Fluvals mentioned allow for a heater to be added to the canister filter.

I have a 75G, and the FX6 is probably still "overkill", but I believe that there is no such thing as too much filtration as long as the flow can be managed. I also got it used for a very good price.

But I was not suggesting that for your 180L. I was just giving an example of how I set up my filter. A 307 would be more than adequate for your size tank. It will come with some media, but you can put whatever media you want in those baskets. Just know the direction of the water flow for whatever filter you get and do mechanical, then biological. For Fluval, it comes with "polishing pads" or "quick clear" pads, or whatever term they are using now. This is essentially the same thing as the floss/polyfill, just more expensive. If they come with that, use them, but when it comes time to replace you can just buy cheaper media.

They do make inline heaters for canister filters. The Fluvals tend to use ribbed hosing which makes adding inline accessories challenging sometimes, but it can be done. I can't speak to it as I have never done it. I just use a standard heater in the tank (controlled with an inkbird).

 

I have a 75G, and the FX6 is probably still "overkill", but I believe that there is no such thing as too much filtration as long as the flow can be managed. I also got it used for a very good price.

Ahh ok. Understood, thanks!

But I was not suggesting that for your 180L. I was just giving an example of how I set up my filter. A 307 would be more than adequate for your size tank. It will come with some media, but you can put whatever media you want in those baskets. Just know the direction of the water flow for whatever filter you get and do mechanical, then biological.

Excellent, thanks! I'll look at the 307.

For Fluval, it comes with "polishing pads" or "quick clear" pads, or whatever term they are using now. This is essentially the same thing as the floss/polyfill, just more expensive. If they come with that, use them, but when it comes time to replace you can just buy cheaper media.

I'll admit I'm not entirely sure what to search for, in the UK, for the cheaper media. Searching for "aquarium foam" just brings stuff like this up.

They do make inline heaters for canister filters. The Fluvals tend to use ribbed hosing which makes adding inline accessories challenging sometimes, but it can be done. I can't speak to it as I have never done it. I just use a standard heater in the tank (controlled with an inkbird).

Ahh ok. I'll just put the heater in the tank as normal then

 

Potentially stupid question.... would/could a canister filter help with an algae problem?

 

Potentially stupid question.... would/could a canister filter help with an algae problem?

I don't think so. Algae is caused by too much light and nutrients. I don't see how a canister would help....unless the additional water flow is a factor. To reduce algae growth, control the lighting and reduce nitrates.