Change from HOB to canister filter

KingJamal2

Well Known
Member
Messages
746
Reaction score
575
Experience
2 years
Kenthay661 said:
I have a marinelab 350 HOB filter. Haven't been happy with it since I got it as a gift. Looking for a few tips on the transition. I have a 36 gallon bow front planted aquarium.
Screenshot_20191228-092446_Excel.jpg
20191228_091029.jpg

3 white skirt Tetra
3 clown loaches
2 black mollies
2 Bala sharks
10ish ghost shrimps
I would set up the filter and run it, while you have the Marineland HOB running. Once you’re confident that the canister is cycled, remove the HOB

I have been generally unhappy with Marineland products as well. They’re kinda cheap.
 

AZL

Active Member
Member
Messages
245
Reaction score
101
Location
Chatham
Experience
1 year
External filters are far better and going forward your water quality issues should improve, ammmonia and nitrite always need to be 0 or they are toxic to the fish and nitrate should be under 30. I would recommend leaving the HOB running for at least a month when you install the external to be sure the new canister is cycled and to clear the water issues you currently have. Add some bottled bacteria now and throughout the transfer as well - I like Microbe-Lift Special Blend. It also should be pointed out that the tank is far too small for bala sharks, they get about a foot long and need a good sized shoal.
 

oldsalt777

Well Known
Member
Messages
2,427
Reaction score
950
Location
Colorado
Experience
More than 10 years
Hello Ken...

You can avoid the cost of a high end water filter by simply removing and replacing most of the tank water every week. There's not a filter out there that can replace an aggressive water change routine. Water in most places is very cheap and does what no filtering device can do and that's remove the polluted water and replace it with pure. Save your money and use a simple dual sponge filter for $10.00. It will do the same job as the high end gizmo.

Old
 

Islandvic

Fishlore VIP
Member
Messages
4,341
Reaction score
2,798
Location
South Texas
Experience
2 years
Welcome to the forum Kenthay661 .

Was the filter a replacement for an existing one, and maybe you lost your cycle?

A lot of people use the Penguin 350 with good results, especially when they make their own DIY cartridges and throw a block of foam sponge in the reservoir to help colonize extra beneficial bacteria.

The YouTube channel Prime Time Aquatics and its host Jason has some videos doing this. It's one of the few fish hobby channels I actually subscribe to.

Also, here is a LINK to a thread on the forum, showing examples of adding your own media to your filter.

Have you tested your tap water yet for ammonia or nitrates? Some people have it in their water supply.

Finally, I always suggest for people to consider adding a sponge filter to their tank for supplemental filtration. Never under estimate the power of the sponge filter. Ha

Old Salt recommendation of large WC's is spot on. I do 75% WC's every 7-10 days.

A pump and hose to drain, and a 2nd hose + adapter fitting to attach the garden hose thread to the sink faucet's thread makes large WC's a lot easier. No buckets for my larger tanks.
 

AZL

Active Member
Member
Messages
245
Reaction score
101
Location
Chatham
Experience
1 year
There's always debate on water changes - I under stock, over filter, plant heavily, and do 30% weekly for freshwater which is the general consensus but that's not to say others are wrong. Islandvic is spot on with theorising changing to one you have now may have crashed cycle and it's always sensible to test tap water. I'm in the UK and forget the USA water sometimes contains ammonia.
 

oldsalt777

Well Known
Member
Messages
2,427
Reaction score
950
Location
Colorado
Experience
More than 10 years
HI AZL...

Actually, there's no ammonia in our tap water. Ammonia is very caustic. It's ammonium. We disinfect our water with chloramine, a combination of chlorine and ammonium. Ammonium can give a positive test for ammonia when you test tap water, but it's not nearly as harmful as ammonia. Also, 30 percent water changes still leave 70 percent of the polluted water in the tank for the fish to add to before the next water change. Water left in the tank too long will lose minerals the fish and plants use to stay healthy. So, even if you have one or two fish in a large tank, most of the water still needs to be changed to replenish oxygen and minerals.

Old
 

AZL

Active Member
Member
Messages
245
Reaction score
101
Location
Chatham
Experience
1 year
oldsalt777 said:
HI AZL...

Actually, there's no ammonia in our tap water. Ammonia is very caustic. It's ammonium. We disinfect our water with chloramine, a combination of chlorine and ammonium. Ammonium can give a positive test for ammonia when you test tap water, but it's not nearly as harmful as ammonia. Also, 30 percent water changes still leave 70 percent of the polluted water in the tank for the fish to add to before the next water change. Water left in the tank too long will lose minerals the fish and plants use to stay healthy. So, even if you have one or two fish in a large tank, most of the water still needs to be changed to replenish oxygen and minerals.

Old
Yes, I'm aware ammonium give a false positive and is less harmful. we'll have to agree to disagree on water change percentages, I find 30% is generally correct for my tanks the way I run them as do may other people. I also do weekly changes on my marine tanks where most people only do monthly so we all have a system we prefer and none are wrong as long as the water parameters remain ideal and stable.
 

oldsalt777

Well Known
Member
Messages
2,427
Reaction score
950
Location
Colorado
Experience
More than 10 years
AZL said:
Yes, I'm aware ammonium give a false positive and is less harmful. we'll have to agree to disagree on water change percentages, I find 30% is generally correct for my tanks the way I run them as do may other people. I also do weekly changes on my marine tanks where most people only do monthly so we all have a system we prefer and none are wrong as long as the water parameters remain ideal and stable.
Good for you. If this works. How do you deal with the 70 percent of the toxic water that's left after the 30 percent water change? Wouldn't the fish have more clean water if you changed half? I mean since you're getting out the gear for a water change anyway, why not spend a little more time and remove half. I'll bet your fish would appreciate the added clean water. But, you're the tank boss.

Old
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #10
OP
Kenthay661

Kenthay661

New Member
Member
Messages
17
Reaction score
2
Location
California
Experience
1 year
Islandvic said:
Welcome to the forum Kenthay661 .

Was the filter a replacement for an existing one, and maybe you lost your cycle?

A lot of people use the Penguin 350 with good results, especially when they make their own DIY cartridges and throw a block of foam sponge in the reservoir to help colonize extra beneficial bacteria.

The YouTube channel Prime Time Aquatics and its host Jason has some videos doing this. It's one of the few fish hobby channels I actually subscribe to.

Also, here is a LINK to a thread on the forum, showing examples of adding your own media to your filter.

Have you tested your tap water yet for ammonia or nitrates? Some people have it in their water supply.

Finally, I always suggest for people to consider adding a sponge filter to their tank for supplemental filtration. Never under estimate the power of the sponge filter. Ha

Old Salt recommendation of large WC's is spot on. I do 75% WC's every 7-10 days.

A pump and hose to drain, and a 2nd hose + adapter fitting to attach the garden hose thread to the sink faucet's thread makes large WC's a lot easier. No buckets for my larger tanks.
oldsalt777 said:
Hello Ken...

You can avoid the cost of a high end water filter by simply removing and replacing most of the tank water every week. There's not a filter out there that can replace an aggressive water change routine. Water in most places is very cheap and does what no filtering device can do and that's remove the polluted water and replace it with pure. Save your money and use a simple dual sponge filter for $10.00. It will do the same job as the high end gizmo.

Old
I've just switched to r/o water at my changes. I'm doing it at 20-25% a week. I'm on my way to pick up the second batch. Started last week. I'm on a well up here and with out the water softener from the hose the nitrate levels are 40ppm and ammonia is around .50. I'm not a fan of the 350. The bio wheels keep sticking. It makes a great growling noise every thirty minutes or so. The tanks in the living room. It's too much.

the main problem I'm having with the large water changes is that I'm on a well up here. It comes out of the hose at 40 parts per million on the nitrates and .50 on the ammonia. So I'd started last week doing 20% water changes with RO water. That seems to help I'm going to do the second one today. Then I'll do another one next week. I'm not a fan of the 350 it's gotten pretty loud it starts the growl every half an hour or so. With the tank in the living room it's really not pleasant.
 

AZL

Active Member
Member
Messages
245
Reaction score
101
Location
Chatham
Experience
1 year
oldsalt777 said:
Good for you. If this works. How do you deal with the 70 percent of the toxic water that's left after the 30 percent water change? Wouldn't the fish have more clean water if you changed half? I mean since you're getting out the gear for a water change anyway, why not spend a little more time and remove half. I'll bet your fish would appreciate the added clean water. But, you're the tank boss.

Old
The denitrifying bacteria deal with it - that's why you allow your filter to become colonised through providing suitable media and not rising with tap water! My water parameters are 0 NH3, 0 NO2, 5 NO3 - no toxins there. The only way your water will be toxic is if your cycle has crashed. You've ceased being polite so I'll follow suit. Do you not understand the nitrogen cycle and how this maintains stable aquarium water alongside small to moderate, frequent water changes? If not you shouldn't really be offering advice to new people. 75% to 100% water changes are unnecessary and actually a dangerous shock to your fish. If the OP is having trouble with their tap water it's an even worse idea.
 

AZL

Active Member
Member
Messages
245
Reaction score
101
Location
Chatham
Experience
1 year
Kenthay661 said:
I've just switched to r/o water at my changes. I'm doing it at 20-25% a week. I'm on my way to pick up the second batch. Started last week. I'm on a well up here and with out the water softener from the hose the nitrate levels are 40ppm and ammonia is around .50. I'm not a fan of the 350. The bio wheels keep sticking. It makes a great growling noise every thirty minutes or so. The tanks in the living room. It's too much.

the main problem I'm having with the large water changes is that I'm on a well up here. It comes out of the hose at 40 parts per million on the nitrates and .50 on the ammonia. So I'd started last week doing 20% water changes with RO water. That seems to help I'm going to do the second one today. Then I'll do another one next week. I'm not a fan of the 350 it's gotten pretty loud it starts the growl every half an hour or so. With the tank in the living room it's really not pleasant.
That's a good solution but there are some things to consider. I use a combination of tap and RO water as my tap is way too high PH for my freshwater fish. As RO has the minerals removed you need to replace them appropriately - different fish require different KH and GH. If you start testing those and re-mineralise with Aquadur or a similar product it'll be fine. all fish suffer if KH goes below 3. Happy to discuss in more detail if you like and there will be people with more experience with this on the forum. Please take the huge WC advice with a grain of salt, I'm sure it's well meant but most people do not do more than 20% to 40% for many valid reasons. If the dude doesn't understand why the other 70% of the water isn't toxic then his knowledge needs to be questioned. Look at the info files on here and chat with the mods who I know are really on the ball :)
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #13
OP
Kenthay661

Kenthay661

New Member
Member
Messages
17
Reaction score
2
Location
California
Experience
1 year
AZL said:
That's a good solution but there are some things to consider. I use a combination of tap and RO water as my tap is way too high PH for my freshwater fish. As RO has the minerals removed you need to replace them appropriately - different fish require different KH and GH. If you start testing those and re-mineralise with Aquadur or a similar product it'll be fine. all fish suffer if KH goes below 3. Happy to discuss in more detail if you like and there will be people with more experience with this on the forum. Please take the huge WC advice with a grain of salt, I'm sure it's well meant but most people do not do more than 20% to 40% for many valid reasons. If the dude doesn't understand why the other 70% of the water isn't toxic then his knowledge needs to be questioned. Look at the info files on here and chat with the mods who I know are really on the ball :)
I'm using the API master test kit. I picked up a KH&GH test kit also. 9kh and 11gh. I'm using the ro lower my nitrates and balance out the water. I'm not worried about the massive water changes. I'm staying with the 20-30%. Thanks for the help.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #14
OP
Kenthay661

Kenthay661

New Member
Member
Messages
17
Reaction score
2
Location
California
Experience
1 year
I've been trying to stay away from chemicals. I'll look into the mineral supplements. Is there any other levels you would recommend testing?
 

KingJamal2

Well Known
Member
Messages
746
Reaction score
575
Experience
2 years
oldsalt777 said:
Good for you. If this works. How do you deal with the 70 percent of the toxic water that's left after the 30 percent water change? Wouldn't the fish have more clean water if you changed half? I mean since you're getting out the gear for a water change anyway, why not spend a little more time and remove half. I'll bet your fish would appreciate the added clean water. But, you're the tank boss.

Old
You do water changes to remove excess nitrates and clear up the water a little bit. Water in a fish tank isn’t “toxic” and changing 70 percent of the water will stress out your fish.
 

Islandvic

Fishlore VIP
Member
Messages
4,341
Reaction score
2,798
Location
South Texas
Experience
2 years
Gotcha. Yeah the bio-wheels will make noise. Have you pulled them and added some vaseline on ends?

As for a canister, maybe a smaller Fluval 207, Hydor 350 or EheI'm Classic 2115 would do well in your 36g.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #17
OP
Kenthay661

Kenthay661

New Member
Member
Messages
17
Reaction score
2
Location
California
Experience
1 year
Islandvic said:
Gotcha. Yeah the bio-wheels will make noise. Have you pulled them and added some vaseline on ends?

As for a canister, maybe a smaller Fluval 207, Hydor 350 or EheI'm Classic 2115 would do well in your 36 gallon.
The rubber bushing inside has the smallest chip. It causes the propeller to make noise.the biowheels stopped spinning. I I ordered a aqueon quietflow canister filter. From what I found they seem to be reliable. I had a fluvel on a 75 gallon turtle tank. It sprung a leak while I was out. Dumped most of the tank onto my carpet. I can't try it again.
 

oldsalt777

Well Known
Member
Messages
2,427
Reaction score
950
Location
Colorado
Experience
More than 10 years
KingJamal2 said:
You do water changes to remove excess nitrates and clear up the water a little bit. Water in a fish tank isn’t “toxic” and changing 70 percent of the water will stress out your fish.
HI King...

Water in a fish tank contains dissolved fish waste, so it's toxic to your fish. You wouldn't want to change 70 percent immediately if your fish were used to a 30 percent change. That would cause a sudden change in the water chemistry and stress the fish. What you want to do is gradually work up to this point by changing a little more water every week. This way, the change in the water chemistry is gradual. But, this subject is getting away from the original post. So, maybe the moderators will want to move this post elsewhere.

Old
 

AZL

Active Member
Member
Messages
245
Reaction score
101
Location
Chatham
Experience
1 year
Agreed on the wandering of the post at least, the OP asked for filter advice and it's become a WC debate.
 

mrsP

Active Member
Member
Messages
363
Reaction score
298
Location
UK
Could you put at least some of filter media from HOB filter to canister? That would help with cycling it, and also using some product to jump start fish tank?
 

New Threads

Similar Threads

Follow FishLore!

FishLore on Social Media

Online statistics

Members online
93
Guests online
1,841
Total visitors
1,934

Aquarium Photo Contests

Aquarium Calculator

Top Bottom