Can't Start Nitrogen Cycle

So some background on my question I have a 5.5 gallon Betta tank, basic gravel, 10 gal sponge filter with an air stone inside, and a couple plastic decorations at the moment. I know it's not the right way to do things but I already have a female Betta in the tank for the past 2 weeks. I plan on getting her out this weekend until my tank is cycled now that know more about it. I plan on adding some fire moss, cholla wood, java moss, and a moss ball or two this weekend as well. My issue though is that its been 2 weeks and I'm not seeing any signs of the tank even starting to cycle without a water change.

Water pH: 7.6
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Temp: 72 F

These have stayed constant since I got the Freshwater Master Testing kit earlier this week what am I missing? Shouldn't there be some build up of at least nitrate since there is a living organism in the tank?

-my only guess is maybe because I used spring water that I treated before adding to the tank two weeks ago with Betta H2O conditioner that claims to detoxify Nitrite and heavy metals.

 

You should be seeing ammonia if nothing else. If the levels truly are 0,0,0 there's no harm being done to the fish. But there should be trace amount of ammonia that should eventually start breaking down into nitrite, then into nitrate. I would pick up seachem stability and seachem prime and dose as directed.

 

I suggest getting Tetra SafeStart and SeaChem stability. These two together will help speed the cycling process so that you should have a tank by 2 weeks. Also the temperature should be at 76-80. I suggest getting a heater. Some bettas have different problems, one thing that shorten there lives is heat. I believe that bettas can develop metabolism problems when the water is cool 75 and lower.

 

Thanks for the advice guys. So far I got a heater and the water temp is at a nice 78. The only thing is now I'm hesitant to add the seachem until I have a hospital tank or something set for the betta. From what I read doing a fish cycle sounds like it will end up hurting her.

 

A fish-in cycle would hurt no more than having her in an uncycled hospital tank. The tank is uncycled in both cases, yes? Cycling the hospital tank just to then cycle the home tank seems a bit redundant, no?

Don't worry. Bettas are one of the best fish out there to survive the cycling process. Just go for it.

 

That ammonia test is really easy and reliable so I would not worry until you start seeing ammonia. How often and what are you feeding? Is the water nice and clear, I always notice the water gets a little cloudy when the ammonia starts to build.

 

A fish-in cycle would hurt no more than having her in an uncycled hospital tank. The tank is uncycled in both cases, yes? Cycling the hospital tank just to then cycle the home tank seems a bit redundant, no?

Don't worry. Bettas are one of the best fish out there to survive the cycling process. Just go for it.

I read that the nitrite build up can damage the gills and cause her a burning pain when the cycle starts. I'm not sure how true that is but going into an uncycled hospital tank with 0 across the board water parameters should be safer shouldn't it?

I know its only a cheap fish but I rescued her from a store that over fed her and was planning on flushing her because she couldn't swim just float. After two weeks of nursing her back to health I really don't wanna put her through any pain.

That ammonia test is really easy and reliable so I would not worry until you start seeing ammonia. How often and what are you feeding? Is the water nice and clear, I always notice the water gets a little cloudy when the ammonia starts to build.

I do a once a day feeding with Omega One Betta Flakes (personally think its one of the best I ever got my hands on). Normally since she is small a large flake or nothing more then a pinch. The water has stayed pretty clear so far but I have seen her droppings and some bites of left over food at the bottom. I haven't even added plants yet, sorta hoping they might help start the cycle when they get added this weekend. I'm doing snail control at the moment.

 

And that's very noble of you. Honestly, in your situation, I would either let the cycle run its course on its own, or just use Seachem Stability. With no readings showing up, it's evident she's not putting out a large amount of waste. And as long as you feed her lightly, that will stay the case.

Yes, the presence of nitrites are harmful. As is ammonia. And you want to keep watching for either of those to show up. But that is why you monitor, and make a water change when necessary, and use Seachem Prime when needed to lock up the ammonia/nitrites into less harmful forms.

But if you remove her from the tank which isn't cycled, and contain her in something else that isn't cycled... What I'm saying is that, in both situations, she will be exposed to ammonia at some point or another. Moving her offers no benefits that I can see that a water change wouldn't take care of in her regular filtered and heated environment.

Do you understand the point I'm trying to get across? I don't always have the right words for things.

 

And that's very noble of you. Honestly, in your situation, I would either let the cycle run its course on its own, or just use Seachem Stability. With no readings showing up, it's evident she's not putting out a large amount of waste. And as long as you feed her lightly, that will stay the case.

Yes, the presence of nitrites are harmful. As is ammonia. And you want to keep watching for either of those to show up. But that is why you monitor, and make a water change when necessary, and use Seachem Prime when needed to lock up the ammonia/nitrites into less harmful forms.

But if you remove her from the tank which isn't cycled, and contain her in something else that isn't cycled... What I'm saying is that, in both situations, she will be exposed to ammonia at some point or another. Moving her offers no benefits that I can see that a water change wouldn't take care of in her regular filtered and heated environment.

Do you understand the point I'm trying to get across? I don't always have the right words for things.

That makes sense now. So basically if I'm understanding right is just to do a water change to control the nitrite and ammonia along with using the seachem prime it should be fine? And to follow that question won't that mess with or prolong the cycle? The whole process is honestly really confusing I'm not a chemistry guy haha.

This is my first larger tank, I've always used a 2 gallon bowl for my bettas and depending on how messy they where I'd do a complete water change every week or two weeks. I still have my boy in the other room almost 3 years old now.

 

It absolutely won't prolong or affect the cycle in any way! When you remove water, the only thing you're taking out are the toxic results of the nitrification process - ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates - as well as some of the waste that is causing these chemicals to occur.

What you're NOT removing is the bacteria that allow the nitrification process to happen. These little guys are living MOSTLY inside your filter, and a little on your decorations and gravel. And, they're pretty sticky! They don't shake loose very easy, therefore they aren'tl living in the water itself, therefore they are not removed in the water change process.

And it's the bacteria you want, not the chemicals! I hope I've cleared that up for you.

As long as you have a source of ammonia inside of the tank (the betta, waste fish food, or in the case of fishless cycling pure ammonia itself) inside of the tank, you have something that creates ammonia, which will then feed the bacteria, which will then poop nitrites, which will in turn be eaten by a new bacteria, which will then poop nitrates, which it's up to you to remove with water changes.

 

It absolutely won't prolong or affect the cycle in any way! When you remove water, the only thing you're taking out are the toxic results of the nitrification process - ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates - as well as some of the waste that is causing these chemicals to occur.... .

wow thank you that makes it a million times clearer!

I'm gonna take your advice then and she will stay in the tank, ill just keep a close eye on the water. Do you think Terta Safe Start and Seachem Prime would be my best bet to get to a stable tank fastest?

 

You don't really need both, it's one or the other based on your needs - and both options in this case would do fine for you, I think.

The thing with TSS+ is that, for two weeks, you're not allowed to do any water changes, no matter how bad your levels might seem. This is not a good method for a tank that's heavily overstocked, because your levels are pretty much guaranteed to get bad. Your tank would not be in that danger, I'm very certain. A flake or two a day is not creating a whole lot of ammonia in the first place! TSS+ is dosed only once.

Stability allows you to do water changes. It's dosed every day for a week, though you can go for longer if you want. It's pretty much impossible to overdose, and good thing, too - I nearly dumped half of a 500mL bottle into my tank on accident, once!

 

Sounds like The Seachem is a better choice for me, id rather be able to change the water and keep the fish more comfortable. Appreciate all the info, I'll do an update after everything is on its way. Thanks again

 

Update: So I got Prime and Stability in the mail today and I also happened to snag a 10 gallon tank from petsmart after work on a dollar a gallon sale. I want to still do the Fish in cycle with the 5. I'm worried about needing to do water changes everyday (if needed) to keep her safe with my schedule, so if it becomes impossible I can just toss her in the 10 and I don't need a full tank so I can do a total water change in the 10 like I been doing with my 2 gallons with my other bettas. So I have a back up for the fish in cycle, and as a bonus my two boys in the other room will end up in the 10 gallon after, all I need is a divider.

So with all that being said I'm ready to start the 5 gallon fish in cycle. So the big question before I start adding anything can I do Prime and Stability at the same time or what would be best to start everything off?

Current Water Conditions:
Temp 76.9
Ph 7.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

 

Prime and Stability are designed to work together, so neither will disrupt the other's function.

As far as water changes go, you can use this to decide whether you need to do one or not:

Test daily for ammonia and nitrites, and add their PPMs together.
If the sum of both the ammonia and nitrite is a number GREATER than 1, do a water change.
If the sum of both is LESS than 1, then only dose the tank with Prime instead of a water change.

Prime is designed to convert up to 1 PPM of ammonia and nitrite into a less toxic form, and protect your fish for 24 hours.

And just an additional tip for the future, when you divide the 10 gallon, be extra certain that the divider is super snug and tight so that the boys can't get at each other!

 

Okay so one more questions my friend and I appreciate all the help with the set up. It's really getting me pumped about the hobby.

Even though they work together should I dose stability and let it do its work to start everything before adding prime or just both in one shot? Also when should I next test the water? I heard my readings may be off if I do it to soon.

 

Yes, you can dose both at the same time, no need for a window of time between them! Don't dose before the water change, of course - you don't want to take out what you've just put in, obviously.

As far as when to test, I don't believe either product will alter the readings. While Prime changes the form of the ammonia/nitrites, both will still show up on the tests in their true quantity. I believe you're just not supposed to test an hour or two after a water change, though I don't personally know the reason why readings would be inaccurate at that point.

In any event, the test will come before you decide whether to do a water change or just add prime, so there should be nothing you've done before the test that might affect it.

 

Thank you appreciate the info, you've been a huge help! My fish and I thank you

 

You're very welcome, I wish you and your fish the best!