Can't explain fish deaths

Hello everyone,
I havn't been around too much lately, maybe someone will remember me haha. I have a 29 planted still running, and a recently built 20 gallon paludarium.

I helped a friend build a 3 gallon planted aquarium a week or so ago, and the 2 mollies we bought at a pretty reliable store died reasonably quickly... the female in 18 hours, the male in 36 or so. No signs of injury or ammonia poisoning.

The aquarium is moderately planted with some fast growing species, black diamond sand as the substrate, with some eco complete from my 29 to help seed and also to help feed the jungle vals. 13 watt CFL, aquarium pump I used for my 10 gallon turned down on a low setting. Some large river looking rocks from my backyard that were scrubbed with a sponge before being put into the tank.

The fish slowed down prior to death, not much gasping, maybe a little. Just slowed down, sat in one spot, and passed away.

I'm suspecting a chemical that is leaching into the tank is the culprit. I plan on running some tests, separating the sand and rocks into buckets with a guppy in each, and see what happens. I'm having a hard time figuring this one out, maybe someone else have experiences like this.

Oh my friend also acquired a ton of guppies from someones pond recently, I took most of them from her tank into my 29 (they are doing great) but all hers died in the same manner. Some of them had swim bladder problems prior to death.

-Andrew

 

Hello, did you wash all the sand and tank ect before filling and how did you add the fish did they spend a while traveling? Do you have ammonia and nitrite readings from the time?

 

First 3 gal is really too small for either of those. However, taking anything from your yard is always a danger as there are pesticides and fertilizers that get put in yards. Both of which are likely HIGHLY toxic to fish.

 

Others when using natural or salvaged bake on oven or boil chemical free sterilisation

 

Yes, washed sand rocks and tank prior to filling... rocks were washed with a sponge that may have been used in the kitchen. The rocks were not in an area of pesticide or fertilizer use, and were scrubbed prior.

Yes, it is overstocked, my ammonia reads 0, didnt test the others since I knew what they would be around. The plants prevent any unnecessary ammonia poisoning, which I knew wasn't the cause due to a lack of symptoms.

I honestly have no idea... could be the San Diego water, or maybe it was the rocks or sand, I guess itll remain a mystery..

 

Nitrite stops fish absorbing the oxygen so must also be checked, it's often overlooked it should be 0 any higher and fish may suffer. also scrubbing is not enough I'm afraid, needs to be chemical of heat treated, trouble with chemical treatment is you can't test to see if it's all been washed off at the end, sorry.

 

Well you shouldn't ever use kitchen sponges to wash anything that's going into a fish tank. Kitchen sponges, well all sponges actually (unless they're made for aquariums) have a mold (sp?) prevention chemical in them. I'd not be at all surprised if that did it.

 

Take a picture of the large river looking rocks because unless there was obvious ammonia or nitrite you detected I'd venture a guess you're right on your suspicion of something leaching.

 

How were they acclimated?

Unfortunately, mollies produce a ton of waste, get 3 inches, and should be in 29 gallons or up.

 

I think boiling your rocks that came from the garden might be a good idea.

 

I think boiling your rocks that came from the garden might be a good idea.

Boiling rocks is dangerous, air pockets that are trapped inside can expand and cause the rock to explode. A better alternative is to pour boiling water over them

 

Is it tap water, was it chlorine/chloramine conditioned?

 

I think the boiling idea is for wood and people bake stones not sure on temps though

 

I think the boiling idea is for wood and people bake stones not sure on temps though

You need to be very careful in baking stones. If there is any moisture inside of them they will explode. This why extreme care is taken when choosing stones for sweat lodge.


To OP:
I will also tell you the smallest aquarium that mollies should be kept in would be a 29, and if it is one of the larger breeds even that would be too small. Remember, most fish in pet shops are very young and will grow much, much larger in adulthood.

As a rule I never put anything from the wild into our aquariums. It is just not worth the risk.

 

You need to be very careful in baking stones. If there is any moisture inside of them they will explode. This why extreme care is taken when choosing stones for sweat lodge.


To OP:
I will also tell you the smallest aquarium that mollies should be kept in would be a 29, and if it is one of the larger breeds even that would be too small. Remember, most fish in pet shops are very young and will grow much, much larger in adulthood.

As a rule I never put anything from the wild into our aquariums. It is just not worth the risk.

True, that's why I said to boil them, they're in water and boiling point is 212°, more than enough temp to clean and disinfect them.

 

While I appreciate the concern of what fish I put in the tank, that's not the issue at hand. I understand mollies are large fish, I've had my own in my 29. Unless the issues are unrelated to the fact that overstocking will result in high nitrogen compound readings, I believe it is fair for me to stock the tank in accordance to what i've seen is stable with a well planted aquarium.

Uhh it was a rather quick acclimation I do admit, did a 50/50 mix for 10 minutes or so and put them in. I figured since the store uses the same water it wouldn't be a huge problem. temps were the same.

Conditioned with Prime.

Mmmm ok I'll probably go with the stones being the problem then. I didn't think it would be a problem, they werent near much organics or chemicals. The sponge... maybe. I think it was that if there are anti-bacterial and fungus agents used on it. Good to know.

 

I don't think anyone has said overstocking has caused the issue it the amount of fish added at the same time, bacteria takes a few weeks to cycle and if you add fish and food the bacteria has to catch up unless you are testing for nitrites as well as ammonia on a new set up it can't be ruled out, still not saying that's what's caused it just needs to be ruled out with a test. . .

 

While I appreciate the concern of what fish I put in the tank, that's not the issue at hand. I understand mollies are large fish, I've had my own in my 29. Unless the issues are unrelated to the fact that overstocking will result in high nitrogen compound readings, I believe it is fair for me to stock the tank in accordance to what i've seen is stable with a well planted aquarium.

Uhh it was a rather quick acclimation I do admit, did a 50/50 mix for 10 minutes or so and put them in. I figured since the store uses the same water it wouldn't be a huge problem. temps were the same.

Conditioned with Prime.

Mmmm ok I'll probably go with the stones being the problem then. I didn't think it would be a problem, they werent near much organics or chemicals. The sponge... maybe. I think it was that if there are anti-bacterial and fungus agents used on it. Good to know.

They could have been stressed from being in a less than ideal tank and that may have contributed, but I won't elaborate on that.

The acclimation sounds like a more likely suspect than the stones to me, especially if they didn't seem to get sick. The worst thing the stones could've done was introduced a disease, which you should've spotted symptoms. Even if the store is local and on the same water supply, it's still possible that the water parameters are different, and the shock may have killed them.

 

Ehh, I would disagree. Usually a poor acclimation will show near instant poor activity. I acclimate in this fashion all the time, given a couple more steps but not far off and I don't have any problems...

Also, after the mollies passed, I did a 90% water change. The same day a ton of guppies were added without me knowing (dropped in, no acclimation). They were completely fine for a day until I could take most of them out into my 29, where the ones I have are doing great. However, the ones remaining died one by one, progressing faster as I believe more chemicals leached into the water. Thus, it couldn't have been an acclimation problem.

I know its not a stocking problem, and I know it's not an ammonia/nitrite/nitrate problem. The water is "cleaner" than most tanks due to fast growing plant species removing inorganic nitrogen from the water. The stones with the chemicals could be poisonous.. not only reducing their immune system. The only problem I ever noticed was a guppy had a swim bladder problem, was swimming upside down.

 

Ehh, I would disagree. Usually a poor acclimation will show near instant poor activity. I acclimate in this fashion all the time, given a couple more steps but not far off and I don't have any problems...

Also, after the mollies passed, I did a 90% water change. The same day a ton of guppies were added without me knowing (dropped in, no acclimation). They were completely fine for a day until I could take most of them out into my 29, where the ones I have are doing great. However, the ones remaining died one by one, progressing faster as I believe more chemicals leached into the water. Thus, it couldn't have been an acclimation problem.

I know its not a stocking problem, and I know it's not an ammonia/nitrite/nitrate problem. The water is "cleaner" than most tanks due to fast growing plant species removing inorganic nitrogen from the water. The stones with the chemicals could be poisonous.. not only reducing their immune system. The only problem I ever noticed was a guppy had a swim bladder problem, was swimming upside down.

Any unexpected fish deaths within days of being introduced could potentially be osmotic shock. They don't die instantly, they display signs of unusual behavior (lethargy, hyperactivity, gasping, swim bladder disorder) before dying. It doesn't explain the guppies, but if you put more fish in, I suggest you acclimate them slowly this time and see if it makes a difference.