Cannot get rid of detritus worms in fishlessly cycling tank

HI there,

I am new to caring for fish and at times I feel that trying to deal with water quality etc is as impenetrable and alien as having to maintain a Mars biosphere in my living room.

BACKSTORY
About 3 months ago I bought a betta fish at a lfs and I was ignorant enough to thinking that this cycling deal I vaguely read about online can't be all that important. I'M SORRY, I learned my lesson (on the back of the health of my poor fish). The fish had pin hole fin rot when I got him, which I didn't know back then, I thought that's how he's supposed to look. The lfs also sold me water test strips that didn't test for ammonia (they charged so much for them - £18, which is almost as much as the master test kit), and told me that's all I needed to be aware of. I just believed that and didn't look it up online and with nitrites and nitrates being 0, I thought the water was just fine. Fishy quickly contracted ich and almost died during my attempts to save him. BUT HE DIDN'T. He made it, yay!! I revisited the lfs since then and they are bad - funny how I didn't see that the first time around.

Anyway, fishy is currently healthy (all the fin rot is gone too - I attached a pic, the holes are gone and the lighter ends of his fins are all new growth) and still in what was sold to me as a 18l tank (just under 5 US gallons), but I measured it to be more like 14l effectively. The tank is heated, filtered and there are some moss balls and almond leaves. I am using Seachem's Prime and Stability to maintain the water quality and doing wc every 2 to 3 days whilst checking water quality regularly (almost daily) with api's master test kit. The tank's cycle isn't moving an inch though, I only once had a nitrite reading but that must have been a false positive.




CURRENT ISSUE
I bought a beautiful 50l (13 US gallons) tank from Dennerle (the scaper's tank) 3 weeks ago and started a fishless cycle. I am going to be away for 4 days in a row once a month from late September onwards and I really wanted the tank to complete its cycle beforehand, so I can move fishy over and don't worry about the water quality going downhill whilst I'm away.

I couldn't get my hands on pure ammonia at the beginning, and so I threw in some fish food, but the ammonia readings from that were negligible (<0.25ppm) even after a week. When the ammonia finally arrived (Kleen Off Household Ammonia) I dosed it to 3ppm using calculators I found online and with the help of some of the seachem stability bacteria, I think the cycle was almost done 2 weeks later last Friday (nitrates started to show to about 20ppm and ammonia and nitrites dropped).

HOWEVER, late last week, little wiggly worms started to appear throughout the tank, not just on the gravel, but free swimming. I looked them up and they seemed to be detritus worms that might have been introduced with the plants I had bought (I had removed 2 small hitchhiker snails a way back) or had come from the decaying fish food I had added at the start. People kept saying that fish would like to snack on them once allowed into the tank, but I couldn't find any evidence report of that - no forum entries where people said "yes, that worked for me definitely".



The worm population exploded over the weekend, the whole tank was full of them by Sunday when I did an almost full wc and gravel vac, also taking out a piece of bogwood that looked fuzzy and icky. On Monday morning, the worms were all back again.

I went to another lfs (there are loads in my city and I've been to almost all of them by now to check them out) and they had never seen these worms before they said. They gave me some copper medication, I added it and the worms didn't budge, but to my surprise my bacteria seemed to have died off - no nitrites and nitrates after 24h, none!

Yesterday I had enough and emptied the whole tank, as the bacteria had been purged anyway I thought. I put my anubia plants and the other stuff from the tank in a bucket with some bird wormer levamisole medication I had bought online overnight (it's only 1% solution and there are only 10ml in the bottle and I have trouble finding out how much I need to dose, so I just put an undetermined amount into the water). I used brand new (washed) gravel and filled the tank back up with conditioned water, leaving the plants in the levamisol bucket for now, adding only the heater and the old filter and filter material to the tank (I didn't have a new filter sponge) and guess what, THE WORMS ARE BACK TODAY.

I know I am impulsive with my attempts to fix things (e.g. just one thing out of a million: I should have read up on copper's potential effects on beneficial bacteria before adding it blindly), and I would therefore be grateful for any advice from you guys on how to deal with this worm situation. As I said, I ideally would like to have the new tank cycled by late September, but time is running out. Also, it might very well be that fishy would like to snack on the detritus worms, but there were sooooo many of them, hundreds, and I don't think that that amount of free food would be good for him.

 

that is really bizarre. you checked the filter? maybe take it apart, get new media/pads/whatever yours takes...basically start ALL over. I have no idea. ive been keeping fish for 20 years now and never had this issue lol.

could it be something in your water?! as scary of a thought that is...take your tank, no gravel, no decor etc, new media or whatever, take the filter parts all the way apart, and clean it. then just run the water from the tap in a bare bottomed tank...see if they come back that way

 

Thanks for replying I took the filter apart yesterday and cleaned it and washed it under tap water (as I had agreed with myself that the bacteria were wiped out already anyway). It's , it fits in the corner of the tank and is so neat, but not really economical I guess with it's own expensive spare parts - I added a plastic basket that fits around it that holds some ceramic media (I didn't change those either). I just ordered new sponges which are supposed to arrive tonight.

I've got a generic sponge filter with airline in my small tank and it seems much easier to maintain and clean, but I wanted to do everything perfect with the new tank and stupidly threw loads of money on it.

It is indeed a scary thought that the worms just live in my drinking water (particularly as it's supposedly super clean and I'm sometimes drinking it). I had already entertained that thought though, or better, my boyfriend brought it up. But fishy's tank doesn't have this issue at all, so I don't think that's it. And it just started late in the cycle after weeks w/o any water changes in between.

I added about 2ml of the 1% levamisole to the new tank earlier today and I couldn't see any free swimming worms 2 hours later, so I thought maybe it is working and added the plants from the bucket just now, so they could benefit from the medication as well. They were soo smelly, I didn't realise that yesterday, and a couple of leaves were badly decomposing in a spider-webby way. Once added to the tank, there again are loads of free swimming worms in the water. I'll just wait a little and see if the higher dose of levamisole will kill them before deciding on starting from scratch (yet again).

I'll also fill up a large water glass and see if I can spot any worms in there, just to spook myself

 

I'm thinking you probably need to start over- they are surviving the treatments, they are hardy- like the roaches of the aquarium world LOL

at this point, I would def get new plants etc. replace everything- they are hiding somewhere and will continue to pop out of nowhere...and breed lol

 

Oh dear, thank you for that. How super annoying though! So you wouldn't think that they could serve as a food source once I introduced fishy to the tank? I would be vary of it anyway, but that's the impression the internet gave me...

 

I think one or two errant ones would be ok, but you have a major problem. there is no way for your fish to eat all of those fast enough. and with that many, I wouldnt doubt there are eggs somewhere.

 

I think you're right. I'll take the filter apart today and leave it out to dry over night and then put the new sponges and ceramic media in tomorrow. Do you think that's enough? I don't have any vinegar at hand, so I wouldn't know how to clean it any better than that.

I just now set up everything to empty the tank (again) when I realised that my gravel vacuum hose thing is bust. Now I have to wait till tomorrow for the new one to arrive. Patience, argh. The worst thing is that the tank was already showing nitrobacter activity.

Btw, I think I'm done with real plants for now. These were relatively expensive and I was obv not very successful with them. I might buy new ones once I've moved fishy over and quarantine them in the small tank or something like that. I just have to clutter the 50l tank with loads of deco and plastic plants in the meantime so that my betta can hide and explore.

 

I'm not sure. let me look at something real quick and get back to you on it.


awwww, I hate having setbacks but once you get it handled, it will be worth it

I can't find any definitive info on how long worms and their eggs can stay out of water.

how were you cycling the tank? ammonia or fish food?

when you put the plants into the water, were they potted with dirt or were they free root you just set in there? do you have any kind of soil or wood in the tank?

I thin 24-48 hours drying time after a full scrub would do the trick.

a couple of the worms is fine, though a huge population like you are describing will deprive the water of oxygen and cause fishy death.

 

Thank you so much for your help! I really love my betta (he is THE BEST obv) and the new aquarium is beautiful to look at and it would be wonderful if everything worked out eventually, but currently I'm just realising again and again how easy it is to do things wrong with water

I am also worried that I somehow ingested the worms and will get sick (roundworms, right?), but that's just rudimentary paranoia, I hope...

 

def. those are not roundworms at all LOL

just try drying everything out and starting over- it would be helpful to have a separate tank or even a bowl to put plants in to observe them for a couple days before putting them in the tank next time. use the water from the main tank, then make sure you are "rinsing" the plants roots etc off in the water after you determine there's no worms etc on them

my tank is HEAVILY planted, and I love it. I just make sure to check my plants before I put them in the main tank. I have a gorgeous tank, clear water, tons of activity

 

This is one of the plants, the other one came on driftwood as well with free roots. I also bought some grassy stuff that was in-vitro even.

I had some bogwood in there and it overgrew with some sort of fungus and I threw it out when I did the first wc last weekend.

I started with fish food as it was really hard for me to get hold of ammonia - that only arrived 10 days later or so.

 

I see 2 or 3 possible bringers of the worms lol.

the wood, with the weird fungus? possible culprit

the fish food, while it won't BRING the worms, it feeds them

and then the plants, if they were ever in soil at all, they can come in that soil.


I love my anubais its so pretty- right now mine is chilling on the gravel doing very well while I decide what I want to tie it to LOL

java fern has been probably my favorite as it is SO easy to grow and to propagate! I have used 6 little 2 leaf bundles to plant my 40b AND my nursery tank! the ludqigia I have has had to be cut and replanted a few times- I started with one plant, and now I have 7 I think? hygro is doing well as are my marimo balls lol

not crazy about the microsword though.

I would probably scream and die if I came into the kitchen to a tank of worms- so good on you for not just dying on the spot LOLOL

 

Oh okay, they are naididae, right? So they don't have a roundworm live cycle, that's good.

Yeah, I'd love to have plants and I even cleaned the ones I got right now when I got them, but still there were some snails hiding inside which I only spotted days later. Without a quarantine tank at the moment I just have to wait until the new one is cycled

I know right, I was sooooo grossed out at first, I had horrible nightmares that night of decomposing bodies etc. I really want to make this work though, so I will prevail

The anubias are really so pretty, tied to the driftwood they look like bonsai. I might just put them in a plastic container without substrate and see if I can safe them?

 

no, they are not any kind of worm that will parasite you lol

that might be a good plan if you have a clear glass bowl that is big enough to house it for just a couple days? watch it and see if any come back out, if you have no worms in the bowl, go for it

like I said, a couple is not a big deal. an infestation is an oxygen sucker of epic proportions

 

I'll do that, thanks again for all your help. I'll post an update when I hopefully got rid of them

 

The wood with the weird fungus is normal it part of wood becoming water logged. Its just a water mold or fungus it goes away with time and will wash right of in the sink with scrubbing.
The worms are most likely from ammonia being in the water. They are created from left over food and detritus. They are harmless. Getting rid of them takes time and cleaning. Not heavy water changes which is most likely the reason for your crash.
I had the same worms in my puffer tank. As well as yours it was from un eaten food, snail remains and etc.. I added giant danios to mine and the population was demolished within a cpl days and mine is 150 gallons. I am not telling you to go get GD but fish will eat them and its harmless.

 

Haha, thanks Big Red, the wood is now long gone due to my impulsive "fixing" of things, but good to know! I feel your approach sounds level-headed, but then again, I would still only have had one little betta to scoop up all of the worms once the tank had cycled. Plus they are just icky, even after "getting used" to them.

I've now disassembled the filter and have it out to dry, and migrated the anubias to a large plastic storage box - they still look good after having removed all the bad leaves and I'd love to save them.

I think I'll throw the moss balls and the (only days old) gravel out once the new water suction tube thing arrives and I can start afresh.

On another note, is there anything other than Seachem stability that I can use to ensure the new tank cycles by late September when I'll be away for 4 days? As I said, my small betta tank doesn't cycle at all using prime and stability and wc every 2-3 days. The readings this morning are <0.25/0/0 again as they always are (I think it's the 4th day now w/o wc - wanted to do it yesterday but alas the hose broke). The small tank has been running with this set-up for 2.5 months. I really want to migrate the betta to the cycled tank before I'll be away.

Btw, why would the large water change have killed my bacteria? They should have been on the gravel and on the filter, no? Also, I did a water test in between after the water change and before adding the copper medication and there was still activity visible.

I'm just asking as I read again and again that water changes don't inhibit bacteria growth, and I know me, if I don't clear this up it sticks to the panic area of my brain and comes out when I don't want it.

 

Water changes are not bad. But tomany heavy water changes can cause it to crash. No food sourrce for bbto sustain. Some meds can be harmful for cycles as well.

Do you have any friends with tanks? If so buy or borrow theyre some of theyre filter media. Or maybe a pet store will give you some media (if you trust the conditions of their water). Do that put it in your filter and you'll baiscally have n instant cycle. Ive cycled all my tanks that way. Except for one.