Can You Use Stability And Tetra Safe Start Together?

I'm starting off the new 10 gallon to keep a couple of fish in that I have taken out of my 20 gallon because I think the bio load in there it's too heavy and it's not cycling. I have stability which I have heard great things about and I started using it in my 20 gallon yesterday I'm wondering if I can use that in conjunction with tetra safe start plus in the 10 gallon because I'm just starting it?

 

Yes

 

You can, but if you use prime just make sure you wait 24hrs before adding the tss+

 

I'm not going to use the prime because I don't like the fact that it skews the results of the test so I have three serpea tetras in there I added the stability can I add the tetra save start plus right now.
As a sidenote I know you are supposed to add the tetra safe start plus and then put the fish
In but I spoke to somebody at tetra and she told me that I could add in additional a few tablespoons or teaspoons to my bettas tank because it hasn't cycled completely yet so I know it's not unsafe to add it while they're in there

 

I'm not going to use the prime because I don't like the fact that it skews the results of the test so I have three serpea tetras in there I added the stability can I add the tetra save start plus right now

Yes. I would personally use one or the other, but it won't hurt to use both

 

Why would you do that, personally?

 

TSS+ and Stability work differently. If you're going to use TSS+, it needs to be added 24 hours after the use of a water conditioner with 1-2 small fish per 10g. And you can't do water changes for 2 weeks after adding it in. You also need to use the entire bottle all at once. If your 20 gallon is fully stocked or overstocked, I'd use the Stability in that tank and save the TSS+ for the smaller bioload in the 10g.

 

Why would you do that, personally?

They are different products with different bacteria. My understanding is the bacteria in stability are only short term and not the true aquatic bacteria, whilst tss+ contains true aquatic bacteria. But it will do no harm to use both

 

They are different products with different bacteria. My understanding is the bacteria in stability are only short term and not the true aquatic bacteria, whilst tss+ contains true aquatic bacteria. But it will do no harm to use both

Both contain nitrifying bacteria.

 

I am using the stability and my 20 gallon tank that isn't cycling. And I have like four bottles of Tetra safe start plus in the bottle of stability I have is huge also. I am curious though what the logic is behind it not changing the water for two weeks after using Tetris a st in the bottle of stability I have is huge also. I am curious though what the logic is behind it not changing the water for two weeks after using tetra safe start?

 

TSS+ is housed in a specialized solution of ammonia so if you use any kind of conditioner that binds ammonia or neutralizes chlorines/chloramines, it will also remove the food the bacteria requires to live. This is why Tetra recommends not to add their product within 24 hours after the use of a water conditioner and for at least 7 days (14 to be safe). Top-offs are ok after 7 days.

 

TSS+ is housed in a specialized solution of ammonia so if you use any kind of conditioner that binds ammonia or neutralizes chlorines/chloramines, it will also remove the food the bacteria requires to live. This is why Tetra recommends not to add their product within 24 hours after the use of a water conditioner and for at least 7 days (14 to be safe). Top-offs are ok after 7 days.

That's good to know because my poor betta his water supply is getting lower and lower and I wasn't sure because someone said no water changes so I wasn't sure if I could add water I think it's been about 10 days.

I wonder what would happen because today I just topped off my 20 gallon and made sure it was full and dechlorinated it. If I wait 24 hours from now poured in that whole bottle of Texas safe start plus and then let them sit for two weeks and see if that gosh darn tamk would finally cycle

 

I'm not going to use the prime because I don't like the fact that it skews the results of the test

Prime will not skew the test results. Prime detoxes (up to 1ppm) ammonia and/or nitrites). Detox means to put the ammonia and/or nitrites into a form that will still feed the bacteria but that is non-toxic to your fish. Test kits cannot tell the difference between deroxed and non-detoxed ammonia and/or nitrite so even though the ammonia and/or nitrite are not toxic, the test still reads it.

But this is a good thing, because if it didn't read positive, you would never know when your filter built up a large enough bacteria colony to process all the ammonia and resultant nitrites (i.e you wouldn't know when your tank was cycled)

 

That's good to know because my poor betta his water supply is getting lower and lower and I wasn't sure because someone said no water changes so I wasn't sure if I could add water I think it's been about 10 days.

I wonder what would happen because today I just topped off my 20 gallon and made sure it was full and dechlorinated it. If I wait 24 hours from now poured in that whole bottle of Texas safe start plus and then let them sit for two weeks and see if that gosh darn tamk would finally cycle

What’s the stock in the 20g?

 

What’s the stock in the 20g?

Right now I only have one Columbian tetra two mollies five harlequins and two Platys and a
Snail.
I started using the stability yesterday and my ammonia levels have only gone up I don't understand why this tank won't cycle

 

It’s the bioload. What are your parameters on that tank? You’ll need to keep ammonia levels low by doing frequent water changes while Stability gets a chance to populate and process that amount on its own. And it’ll take more than a day if you just started using it. Keep dosing daily and doing water changes with Prime.

 

I am literally i'm ready to scratch in the entire 20 gallon tank and start over I am just at my wits end with it. I have used tetra safe start in my betta tank and now in the serpea tetra tank let me it's been less than two weeks and the betta tank is almost completely cycled I'm getting nitrate readings very low Ammonia readings and no nitrites . The 20 gallon tank was my very first endeavor and I dropped so much stuff into it trying to jump start the cycle that the guys that my fish store says I literally probably created a chemical conflict of some sort that's not allowing bacteria to grow because that tanks been set up for three months and I have nothing but ammonia no nitrates no nitrites. I know this sounds like a big endeavor but I am going to drain the tank take the fish out clean the gravel change all the filters wash off the decor put in the water conditioner and fill it back up acclimate them back into the tank and then 24 hours later I'm going to dump in a big bottle of tetra safe start plus and hope for the beSt. I've been using stability on the tank for five days with literally no changes in the ammonia and that it's only been going up so something is wrong something is off. I know that people have had success with stability and prime together in but I think because I tried all of this other stuff that other people suggested before I even tried that there's just too much going on in the tank and the bio load is very low at this point for a 20 gallon tank. There are five harlequins two. mollies two Platys and One Columbian tetra. And I am no expert but I don't think that's a lot for a 20 gallon tank.

 

You may not think it’s a heavy bioload for the 20 gallon but it is esp when cycling a tank. You also need to give it at least two weeks and this is with just a small bioload of 2-3 small fish. It’s not surprising that you were able to cycle the betta tank easily - you had a small bioload in proportion to tank size. Your mollies alone are big waste producers which is why most recommend a 30 gallon minimum for them.

I don’t think you should change your filter media at all as you’d be throwing away whatever bacteria has developed. Starting over with new filters is just re-setting your cycle and will delay your cycle further. You’ll just need to keep doing water changes to keep ammonia levels low until your tank is cycled so as not to poison your fish.

 

You may not think it’s a heavy bioload for the 20 gallon but it is esp when cycling a tank. You also need to give it at least two weeks and this is with just a small bioload of 2-3 small fish. It’s not surprising that you were able to cycle the betta tank easily - you had a small bioload in proportion to tank size. Your mollies alone are big waste producers which is why most recommend a 30 gallon minimum for them.

I don’t think you should change your filter media at all as you’d be throwing away whatever bacteria has developed. Starting over with new filters is just re-setting your cycle and will delay your cycle further. You’ll just need to keep doing water changes to keep ammonia levels low until your tank is cycled so as not to poison your fish.

One thing I have noticed which I think is strange about the Tetra safe start. It's been just under two weeks and I have an ammonia reading of .25 ppm zero nitrites and a nitrate reading of 10ppm. That is in the betta tank and it's been about a week and a half. Yesterday and the 10 gallon tank that I put the three serpea tetras in from the 20 gallon to Bring down the bio load I added that I think yesterday and already today the ammonia is down I have a nitrate reading still no nitrites but that was fast I have done zero water changes or even top off since I started the betta tank and if it cycles completely to the point where the ammonia is down to zero I'm going to put a tank divider in and put the pregnant platy on the left-hand side and the things I have bought to hide the fry in there as welL. I'm also thinking as the tetra 10 gallon progresses I could get a tank divider and put the harlequins in there further bringing down the bioload and at that point start the tetra safe start in the 20 gallon. And I say that about getting new filtration and cleaning the decor and the substrate because I don't want any residual chemicals to affect the effectiveness of the safe starT and I've been reading up a lot on an aerobic anaerobic in baculative bacteria's and it's possible from all of the chemical additives that I've put in that tank that I have created in environment chemically which is making it impossible for particular bacteria to grow. If I can manage to get the 2 ten gallons completely cycled and then slowly move over a fish at a time or a fish or two at a time so as not to throw the cycle off and then I feel like the bio load in the 20 would definitely be low enough for the safe start to be effective. And I used the regular safe start on both of the 10 gallons and I got safe start plus for the 20 gallon which can only make things better. I know that you can use the safe start even after having the fish in there already as long as it's been 24 hours since you've added any ammonia detoxifier or a chloramine chlorine or heavy metal remover. But I also know that you have to have an ammonia reading that's relatively low and even when I've done large water changes and use the prime and stability that now instead of having an improvement in my ammonia levels I can do a 50% water change use even a regular dechlorinator not the prime add the stability and still have a larger ammonia reading the next day and this is the feeding the fish every other day because I've been trying to get the tank to cycle. And I know I'm not overfeeding because I take one cube of frozen either brine shrimp are blood worms or mysis and they absolutely tear through it entirely before any of it reaches the floor in less than a minutes time. So overfeeding it's not the issue. I could understand if the tank and been up for a month even two months but this Tank is been up and running for over three months now and I haven't gotten anything other than the anmonia readings not a single nitrate or single nitrate despite me trying every single bacterial additive on the market it's done absolutely nothing to improve The level of beneficial bacteria. It's also been seeded with bio balls from canister filters and filter media squeezes from established tanks as well as gravel from established tanks. I've seeded that tank in every way possible. Even the guy at the pet store who has multiple aquariums himself salt water and freshwater said that he's had times where he started tanks and had to completely start over from scratch because of whatever reason and it was at his suggestion that he said remove the fish completely replace the water wash the decor he basically said there's got to be something that you've added that's preventing bacterial growth and from what I'm seeing that definitely appears to be the case I have two filters running on there even and
An air stone that covers almost the entire back length of the tank so there's no problem with it being under oxygenated. And the temperature is at 78 water pH is seven it comes out of the tap at seven. I just Don't see any reason why I haven't seen any improvements in this tank despite removing half the fish in it and adding a bunch of other things that should have sped up the process what's really alarming me more than anything is the fact that that water change thing having an ammonia spike after a 50% water change and adding beneficial bacteria just shows me that something is fundamentally wrong. Really scratching my head on this one

 

One thing I have noticed which I think is strange about the Tetra safe start. It's been just under two weeks and I have an ammonia reading of .25 ppm zero nitrites and a nitrate reading of 10ppm. That is in the betta tank and it's been about a week and a half. Yesterday and the 10 gallon tank that I put the three serpea tetras in from the 20 gallon to Bring down the bio load I added that I think yesterday and already today the ammonia is down I have a nitrate reading still no nitrites but that was fast I have done zero water changes or even top off since I started the betta tank and if it cycles completely to the point where the ammonia is down to zero I'm going to put a tank divider in and put the pregnant platy on the left-hand side and the things I have bought to hide the fry in there as welL. I'm also thinking as the tetra 10 gallon progresses I could get a tank divider and put the harlequins in there further bringing down the bioload and at that point start the tetra safe start in the 20 gallon. And I say that about getting new filtration and cleaning the decor and the substrate because I don't want any residual chemicals to affect the effectiveness of the safe starT and I've been reading up a lot on an aerobic anaerobic in baculative bacteria's and it's possible from all of the chemical additives that I've put in that tank that I have created in environment chemically which is making it impossible for particular bacteria to grow. If I can manage to get the 2 ten gallons completely cycled and then slowly move over a fish at a time or a fish or two at a time so as not to throw the cycle off and then I feel like the bio load in the 20 would definitely be low enough for the safe start to be effective. And I used the regular safe start on both of the 10 gallons and I got safe start plus for the 20 gallon which can only make things better. I know that you can use the safe start even after having the fish in there already as long as it's been 24 hours since you've added any ammonia detoxifier or a chloramine chlorine or heavy metal remover. But I also know that you have to have an ammonia reading that's relatively low and even when I've done large water changes and use the prime and stability that now instead of having an improvement in my ammonia levels I can do a 50% water change use even a regular dechlorinator not the prime add the stability and still have a larger ammonia reading the next day and this is the feeding the fish every other day because I've been trying to get the tank to cycle. And I know I'm not overfeeding because I take one cube of frozen either brine shrimp are blood worms or mysis and they absolutely tear through it entirely before any of it reaches the floor in less than a minutes time. So overfeeding it's not the issue. I could understand if the tank and been up for a month even two months but this Tank is been up and running for over three months now and I haven't gotten anything other than the anmonia readings not a single nitrate or single nitrate despite me trying every single bacterial additive on the market it's done absolutely nothing to improve The level of beneficial bacteria. It's also been seeded with bio balls from canister filters and filter media squeezes from established tanks as well as gravel from established tanks. I've seeded that tank in every way possible. Even the guy at the pet store who has multiple aquariums himself salt water and freshwater said that he's had times where he started tanks and had to completely start over from scratch because of whatever reason and it was at his suggestion that he said remove the fish completely replace the water wash the decor he basically said there's got to be something that you've added that's preventing bacterial growth and from what I'm seeing that definitely appears to be the case I have two filters running on there even and
An air stone that covers almost the entire back length of the tank so there's no problem with it being under oxygenated. And the temperature is at 78 water pH is seven it comes out of the tap at seven. I just Don't see any reason why I haven't seen any improvements in this tank despite removing half the fish in it and adding a bunch of other things that should have sped up the process what's really alarming me more than anything is the fact that that water change thing having an ammonia spike after a 50% water change and adding beneficial bacteria just shows me that something is fundamentally wrong. Really scratching my head on this one

Don't get discouraged. Listen to the people on the forum, they have given you sound advice, but you're choosing to ignore it.

Here's a recap of everything you should pay attention too.

You have a high bioload in your 20 gallon tank. Your going to get large Ammonia spikes.

The answer to this problem is check your water daily, if your Ammonia and Nitrites are equal to or higher than 1.0, perform a 50% water change to lower them. Dose daily with Prime and Stability. To help keep spikes lower, fast your fish for 3 days. This will also help allow your bacteria to grow.

You simply cannot expect this tank to cycle like your 10G tank. The bioload difference is huge. I wouldn't recommend using TSS+ on the 20G at all. Your Ammonia spikes are going to be too high with the bioload. Adding stock to your 10G before it's even cycled will only set back that cycle as well.

 

Just want to make sure you're aware that since you used the regular safe start on the serpae tank, you'll need to keep doing water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite low the same way you did with Stability. Regular safe start is for maintenance, so you can't do the "no water changes for 2 weeks and the tank should be cycled." That only applies to safe start plus.

 

Yes

Nice pic

 

Just want to make sure you're aware that since you used the regular safe start on the serpae tank, you'll need to keep doing water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite low the same way you did with Stability. Regular safe start is for maintenance, so you can't do the "no water changes for 2 weeks and the tank should be cycled." That only applies to safe start plus.

Funny you should say that because I had no idea and I used the regular one to cycle my betta tank and didn't change the water for two weeks and it did cycle it completely and I had used it to start the other 10 gallon tank and I was a teaspoon or two short so I had ordered the plus and I got it in the mail so I went to add the extra teaspoons that I had been short and didn't realize that it doesn't come with the same squeeze top on top and dumped a ton of it in there by accident so I actually moved the five harlequins over with them as well since they now have a sufficient amount of save start plus to cycle the small tank with all those Little guys in there. Should I add more of the safe start plus since I didn't realize that was the case.?

 

Since you have ammonia in the betta tank it isn't fully cycled. Do a water change to remove the ammonia and dose with Prime. I didn't realize you were using the regular one when I told you not to change the water for two weeks. I feel absolutely horrible now, poor guy

When cycling a tank with safe start plus you're supposed to use the whole bottle. Did you shake it for about 5 minutes? I would move the harlequins back to the 20 gal. Tetra recommends 1-2 small fish per 10 gallons to cycle with safe start plus - if you add the harlequins you would have 7. I don't recommend it.

 

Since you have ammonia in the betta tank it isn't fully cycled. Do a water change to remove the ammonia and dose with Prime. I didn't realize you were using the regular one when I told you not to change the water for two weeks. I feel absolutely horrible now, poor guy

When cycling a tank with safe start plus you're supposed to use the whole bottle. Did you shake it for about 5 minutes? I would move the harlequins back to the 20 gal. Tetra recommends 1-2 small fish per 10 gallons to cycle with safe start plus - if you add the harlequins you would have 7. I don't recommend it.

Well I can tell you this. The ammonia levels haven't gone over .25 at any point in time during the cycle I tested daily I know they say not to but I'm neurotic. Also my betta is very very readable as in when he is distressed or unhappy or anything's making him uncomfortable his face changes color when I took some of the substrate out of his tank to move a little bit of it into the other 10 gallon tank and moved his plants around on him the color on his face changed for about 36 hours until he got used to his surroundings again. When I first got him I thought something was wrong with him because he literally circled the tank for like two days off in the four corners over and over again I guess just remembering the layout and then he stopped and I guess he just liked it the way it was LOL but when I moved the stuff after almost 2 days of recircling he went back to being completely red and stopped with his OCD behavior lol. I thought the Q&A that was done with the fish lore was about tetra safe start not specifically safe start plus ? I'm going to go back and read it now but since the tank is already started to cycle and I already have nitrates wouldn't it be all right for me to add the bottle of safe start plus to the 10 gallon being that they do say it is OK at times to add your entire stock Depending on the types of fish you have and I know the bio load of the Serpea tetras I have are pretty low. And I'm not trying to not listen to the advice of members I guess I'm just questioning my own methods and trying to figure out what's the best way possible to have a completely cycled take by that time my pregnant fish has her babies . I'm not trying to ignore people who have more experience than I do I'm just trying to question things that I don't understand to get a better understanding when I suggested taking out at the harlequins to lessen the load and someone says it's not really going to lessen the load because the highest load is really the Mollys. then I didn't take them out to lessen the load. I have actually moved them because when I poured all that tetra safe start plus in there I was concerned it would be too much for the two fish I mean three fish that are in there when one is just a baby. Well not a baby baby but he's a very young serpea tetra. But to the person who said I was ignoring the advice I wasn't ignoring the advice I haven't done any of the things I suggested I was just suggesting them to see if anyone agreed with the possibility that I have something in my thing that's stopping bacteria from growing or to see if anyone else has had a similar experience

 

You can certainly try it. At the end of the day they're your fish so it's your decision. All we can do is offer our advice and recommendations. It's up to you to decide what you think is best. I hope it works for you.

 

I'll put the harlequins back. But I think I'm gonna give them a little while as I don't think they were very happy with me having to move LOL. It's a shame because the smallest serpea The two older ones he gets bullied by them. They won't let him school with them. And he's chilling with the harlequins. Ha. But you're right I don't want to mess up anything that I've started although I am confused as to what to do now exactly because I started using the safe start on the serpea tank and I didn't use the stability because of that and now I'm not sure what to do. Do I move the harlequins back dose the tank with this safe start plus on top of the safe start I already put in there?

 

Tetra SafeStart and SafeStart + are the same nitrifying bacteria, " Proprietary Strains of: Nitrosomonas, Nitrosospira, and Nitrospira." The + version has more of the same nitrifying bacteria, more isn't always better. If your bio-load supports 1 million nitrifying bacteria adding two million means nothing more than the extra 1 million will die from lack of food. The main advantage of SafeStart + is the higher concentration should/could/might insure that more live bacteria will be in the bottle after shipping/handling/shelf life take their toll. Who knows for sure ?

 

I actually called tetra gave them a rundown of the entire situation from the beginning the tank when it started how long it's been going the other two tanks and her suggestion was to add a little bit more of the safe start plus to the one with the harlequins in it because she said the bio Load in that is still very low. She said it would be a temporary situation as the fish are going to get bigger but it would help me to cycle the tanks in the meantime while I'm trying to get the 20 gallon stabilized and she said her suggestion was to use the remainder of the safe start plus on the 20 gallon and she said that with the fish that were in there even the types and understanding that mollies do produce a lot of waste that the tetra safe start plus at the size bottle I have been more than accommodated and that one of the ways to get around not being able to do water changes is to use distilled water so that it doesn't interrupt the process of the state start and if you're losing a lot of water through of evaporation it's a great way to top off without having to pull out any of the beneficial bacteria and you can add more with the top off she recommended 2 teaspoons for basically a 25% top off. She did say however that she would suggest using safe start plus per topped off's with a 20 gallon because of the higher bioload and that the regular safe start could be used in the tanks with the less or smaller fish because they don't need as much of the bacteria to deflect the amount of ammonia they produce.

 

So it's been a little over a week since I accidentally dumped in a triple dose of safe start plus and the tank with this serpea tetras And the harlequins is giving me zero nitrites 0 ammonia and a nitrate reading approaching 20+ ppm. I know with the tetra safe start you're supposed to wait two weeks before you do any water changes. However if I am reading this correctly and I tested it twice to make sure I didn't make any mistakes the first time this tank is completely cycles and is due for a water change. So what do I do ?

 

Sounds like you're cycled. Two weeks is the average time it takes but you could be finished before then. If you still see 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite for 1-2 more days, I'd do a large water change of about 50% then.

 

That's crazy I think part of why the other tsnk the betta one hasn't is it doesn't have an air stone and the decreased aeration slows down the growth of the bacteria Should I put a small one in there and to maybe help it along I have a bigger one I could put in the tetra take that one and bother them and put the small one in the betta tank and I don't even think you would notice. I had to do a water change it's been more than two weeks in the ammonia levels are going up and the nitrates were getting high. There is also a lot of confusion online about whether you can add TSS after of the chlorinator even if it doesn't have something in it that affects ammonia. So I did a water change and I haven't headed any beneficial bacteria yet I'm waiting until tomorrow just to be on the safe side

Sounds like you're cycled. Two weeks is the average time it takes but you could be finished before then. If you still see 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite for 1-2 more days, I'd do a large water change of about 50% then.

Yesterday I put the breed her box in there with the pregnant Platy. I had came home and it was obvious that she had already had most of the fry already But I figured if we could save any we would try so I put the plants in the bottom for them to hide and put her in there within a couple hours I took her out there's one fry. One loan dude that made it lol and yes this is the third consecutive day of testing zero ammonia zero nitrites and nitrates. When a large water change like that affects the fry that's in there?

 

So it's been a little over a week since I accidentally dumped in a triple dose of safe start plus and the tank with this serpea tetras And the harlequins is giving me zero nitrites 0 ammonia and a nitrate reading approaching 20+ ppm. I know with the tetra safe start you're supposed to wait two weeks before you do any water changes. However if I am reading this correctly and I tested it twice to make sure I didn't make any mistakes the first time this tank is completely cycles and is due for a water change. So what do I do ?

You can't overdose tetra safe start. I've only had experience with Nutrafin Cycle and Tetra safestart. Nutrafin Cycle is best by far. Cycled almost instantly. Stability outcompetes most bacteria and needs to be added in constantly as it's short-lived. Most seachem products are garbagex but seachem prime is by far the best conditioner.