Can we discuss my water quality?

As I set up this new tank, I would really like to have a standard to achieve. I thought I would share my tap water test first:

PH 7.4
Ammonia .50
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
GH 15° (15 drops x 17.9 = 268ppm)
KH 5° (5 drops x 17.9 = 80ppm)

Originally, I was going to keep Neon Tetras but after a lengthy thread and some good advice, I've decided against it and will probably try Cardinal Tetras as an alternative. The goal for me is to have water that is average and balanced and then decide what fish and plants I can keep. The ph at 7.4 seemed okay. Ammonia is of course never acceptable but I'm not sure if .50 needs to be treated. I will ask for input on this one. Nitrites and Nitrates are both acceptable and then we have GH at 15. Insane. I tested it twice to make sure I didn't do something wrong.. Now again, at the time I was wanting to use water good for Neon Tetra. That GH would not have worked so I then used my RO unit and these were the results of the water after RO treatment:

Ph 7.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
GH 4
KH 0

So even after RO the GH is 4 but that is tolerable. Problem now is that I need to add back in the trace elements and bring that KH up right? Now, since I already had a bunch of RO water made up to use for the initial aquarium startup, CindiL had suggested I use Seachem Alkaline Buffer. This would help bring the KH back up and add back in some of what was lost in the RO process.After treating the RO water with the Seachem product, I got the following readings on my test:

Ph 7.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrites 0
Nitrates 0
GH 6
KH 6

That is what the water is in the tank right now with the exception of the ammonia since I have now started the cycling process. I am going to be doing some water changes soon though and going forward I would like some advice on preparing water in the future. Based on the information above, do you believe that I could use a 50/50 combination of RO/Tap? If so, will I need to treat the water further with anything else? I haven't tried a 50/50 split yet but I anticipate that my GH will rise from its current 6 to perhaps 10. Is this still to high? Give it to me straight folks. If I need to go 100% RO and use Equilibirum, I would rather know that now then down the road when I have issues with either fish or plants. I don't have the experience to know if GH that high will impact the life in the tank. If the 50/50 works, I assume I won't need to use the Seachem Alkaline buffer but I'm not sure. Remember, tap had a KH of 5 and the RO KH was 0 so a combination of the two may lower the KH?

I would appreciate any thoughts on the above and whether I need to test a 50/50 mix before moving forward. Many thanks in advance.

 

Here's my thoughts: yes your ammonia is high in the tap.the PH GH KH are fine. I say go straight tap. When your fully cycled your BB should be able to handle the added ammonia from your tap. If you start messing with your PH it's difficult to keep it stable. After cycling just stock your tank slow keeping a close eye on your ammonia levels. Just keep your tank a little under stocked, and you won't have to go thru all that.

 

Are you really saying that a GH of 267ppm is fine for any fish and plants I want?

I felt like the ammonia level was the least of my worries. .5 would be easily consumed by the tank fauna yes?

 

Yes once cycled the BB should be able to handle it. My point is, its better to acclimate your fish to the water. Not your water to your fish. It makes it difficult to maintain stability. It makes water changes a pain in the butt.

 

I love the idea of just using tap but I guess I wan't to punish myself. Not really but most of what I have read about planted tank and fish parameters show GH with a range of 2 up to 8. I want to give my inhabitants the best chance to thrive. It may be a major PITA but I think it's probably going to give them the best chance. I think what will be important is that whatever water I prepare, will need to match the ph, kh and gh of what is in the tank.

Having said that, I'm hoping I can have you guys take a look at my RO test:

Ph 7.0
GH 4
KH 0

What will I need to add back in? Would Equilibrium be best? Or Seachem Alkaline Buffer? Or ? I just want to set up a standard by which to use regularly once I have the tank cycled and ready to inhabit

 

That I can't answer. I've never tried to do it that way.I would like to fallow along with this thread.
My tap is not chlorinated, has 0 ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate. Unfortunately my water is quite hard with a PH of 8.2. My plants and fish are thriving. I guess you can't have everything. Lol. Good luck to ya.

 

Yes and I didn't even address the chlorine which would also need to be treated if I went with tap but I know that Prime could take care of that quickly. I wish that were the only issue. Hoping CindiL can chime in here at some point.While we are on the subject of RO water, I was told today that using an RO unit should remove ALL hardness from the water. I started with a gh of 15 and I assumed that a gh of 4 was the best I could do. The RO unit is brand new. Has anyone else had this experience? Should an RO unit remove all hardness? I bought the unit from Costco so I can return it if need be. Perhaps a unit designed specifically for the aquarium industry might be better. What I did read is that hard water causes membranes to wear prematurely.

 

Here's another thought. Spring water is about a dollar per gallon. It may be more cost effective, and way less aggravating to go that route

 

So upon further research tonight, I have learned that RO units are not actually designed to treat water hardness at all. it just so happens that as a result of the reverse osmosis process, it does catch a lot of calcium/magnesium. Unfortunately though, for people who have extreme hardness and use an RO system, they can expect premature failure of the membrane. I contacted the manufacturer of my particular unit to find out how premature. The instructions that came with my unit recommended using my system with water that is no harder than 170 ppm or about a GH of 9. At 15, I'm well over that but it will still work. It will just not remove all of the hardness and the membrane will have to be replaced sooner.

Further, I read about some other methods to reduce GH including the traditional ion exchange water softeners although I have heard that fish/plants don't seem to recognize the softer water produced by this process. Another process which did intrigue me was something called polyphosphates which are used to treat the incoming water to the home. There is no salt or electricity. It simply passes through a canister of media and while it removes nothing, it claims to prevent calcium from attaching to things. Strange right? If you want to read a little more on that you can check it out here. Unfortunately, even if this system works, it is expensive starting around $800. For that price, I could replace the RO membrane 5 times and just live with the GH of 4.

Anyway, I thought I'd share that little bit of info.
Dave, there is no way on God's green earth, I am hauling water by the gallon to my house lol. I know that many people do. At this point, it has become a bit of a challenge to find some working parameters. I did order the Equilibrium and some Seachem Acid buffer as well. Between the Equilibrium, the acid buffer and alkaline buffer, I will figure out the right mix to use on this RO so that I can move forward. Oh, and yes, you did tell me so!

 

HI John, glad you tagged me. I check in a couple times a day but its easy to miss some threads.

Here are my thoughts. You won't ever need the equilibrium as it only raises GH and your GH isn't the problem. Unless you want to keep some African cichlids or livebearers your dGh of 15 is too high and will be hard on the tetras long term. They'll have to work pretty hard internally for their osmotic regulation to be where it needs to be. I do think most fish would be fine up to 10-12 dGh but you're pushing it where you're at.

I'd personally go with the 50/50 and that way the only thing you'll need to add will be the alkaline buffer. I'd send back the equilibrium and the acid buffer because you won't ever need the equilibrium and acid buffer lowers KH and you need to increase your KH. I know you can mix alkaline and RO but at an approximate ph of 7.2 that's perfect for so many fish. If you start using acid buffer you run the risk of it falling on you or bouncing around and its just an extra step you don't need.

You can just add in the alkaline buffer to get it up around 6-7dKh and then with water changes. I use 100% RO and mix in 1 tsp per 10 gallon at water change time and my KH is right around 7 degrees and my ph steady at 7.8 or so (my natural tap is 8.3).

You're right about the membrane. If your water is so hard why aren't you on a water softener? Do you own your own house or are you renting? Ideally, the water in your house would go through a water softener first and then through your RO unit. At least going 50/50 will help but the minerals will break it down.

As far as softened water goes, it does make a huge difference to the fish because the GH is 0, your KH remains the same. They key thing is that the TDS remains about the same because you've essentially swapped calcium and magnesium ions for either potassium chloride or sodium chloride ions. By the time you add in replenish to bring the GH back up you've increased the TDS. Some fish are fine with a high TDS but very soft water requiring fish would have a hard time with that as mentioned above.

Hope I covered it all

 

CindI thanks for the info. I guess this info on water softeners is news to me. I thought the same thing. I would just add a whole house water softener but I have read numerous articles indicating that fish/plants don't recognize water treated with an ion exchange and in fact, can be harmful. In fact, I could not find a single proponent of water softeners for an aquarium.
The Equlibrium is not for fish but it helps plants get the trace elements and other important things they need to grow. I wasn't aware that it affected GH but I will look into this. I think one of the biggest challenges is that I wanted (and had already bought) to use the EI system of fertilization of the plants but with the issues of water quality, I don't think it would be practical to be doing 50% water changes every week. Lots to think about and now that my cycling is complete, I'm apprehensive to add anything to the tank until I have a game plan.

 

I kept fish successfully with softened water and adding in replenish for a couple of years so it depends on the fish. Hard water fish tend to do fine it because they can handle the higher TDS but soft water fish do not.

You can have the water softener and then when it runs through the RO unit it removes the extra TDS and keeps the membrane from deteriorating.

Instead of using Equilibrium I would be using flourish or another fertilizer meant for your plants. Equilibrium is really meant to bring up GH and is safe for plants but not meant for plants if that makes sense.

Your last option is just to keep hard water fish
And, it doesn't mean your tetras can't live in the hard water but you'll just have to see how they do. My tetras are fine in my harder water of 10 degrees. You could probably even just do 25% RO and 75% tap.

 

My 75 gallon FOWLR tank is a couple of months old. I started it with live sand, then added "life rock" and started testing water on week three. I added a few fish a few weeks ago. I test the water every three days. There is a yellow tang, a bicolor angel and one tiny azure damsel. All are eating well and thriving. I have been doing a 10-15% water change every two weeks and feeding a prepared dried seaweed and frozen brine shrimp with a bit of flake once in a while. I have a HOB Tidal 110 filter using only filter sponge and the bio filter media in a media bag. I have not started using any chemical filtration. Should I use something now like chemi-pure?
My water tests seem to never vary, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 5.0, PH (does vary more on that later) 8.0 - 8.3. Salinity is always 1.0235. Temp is 79.2 (my house is warm.)
Yesterday during a partial water change I rinsed and added 20# of crushed coral with hopes that by adding it I might allow the PH to stay level. Thoughts on this? I still have 60# crushed coral set aside for this tank or a future tank.
What is an ideal level for Nitrates? Should I shoot for zero? Is that possible? Should I be at zero before adding any additional life? I would like to have a bubble tip anemone and a clown fish (or two) and a coral banded shrimp, possibly a few damsels. I learn something new every day so your advice is greatly appreciated.

 

Keep it below 40 on the nitrates. It’s nearly impossible to get to zero, especially in saltwater. As for your water changes, you need to be doing like 25-50% once a week. You’re not gunna want to hear this, but Tangs need a larger tank than 75, especially if there are other fish. You also need like double the filtration you’re getting with that Tidal.

 

Thank you. That's a lot of water changes! Yes I probably will need a 125 for that tang. I appreciate your help.

 

And that's the recommendation for fresh water changes, so it may be more than that!

 

Do you think adding the crushed coral will help buffer the PH?

 

stella1979 Culprit penguin02 that's a couple saltwater people on the forum that I know

 

You should always shoot for zero nitrates. Your other parameters look okay to me. Usually messing with the pH does more harm than good.

 

Thanks Penguin02, I am shooting for zero on nitrates as well. I did add crushed coral to buffer pH but I don't intend to try to change the pH, just hoping to steady it a bit. Luckily my county tap water is hard with a high pH to start with. The fish seem to be doing well, eating well, water looks good. I am doing 10-25% weekly water changes instead of 25% every other week. I prefer consistent smaller changes to bigger changes.

I still have 60# of crushed coral left......maybe I'll set up a smaller tank next year???

 

Keep it below 40 on the nitrates. It’s nearly impossible to get to zero, especially in saltwater. As for your water changes, you need to be doing like 25-50% once a week. You’re not gunna want to hear this, but Tangs need a larger tank than 75, especially if there are other fish. You also need like double the filtration you’re getting with that Tidal.

In a FOWLR nitrates are fine to climb higher, as long as they stay under 20 ppm. You definitely shouldn't be doing 25-50% once a week. That's way too much. You should have a form of nutrient reduction, such as a Fuge. You don't need to use chemi-pure unless your having problems with phosphates, silicates, cyano, ect.

8.0-8.3 is perfectly normal fluctuation. The 20# of crushed coral will help ph and alk stay steady.

Ideal level would be about 2.5-5 ppm. Corals do need nutrients in the water to grow. For a RBTA you need very good lighting, and stable water params. What lighting do you have now?

For now the 75 will be big enough for the tang, if its small, but it will need to be rehomed or upgraded eventually.

Images are not working. Easiest is to hit upload a file in the bottom right of your message box.

How many pounds of rock and sand do you have in your tank now? You need a lot more flow, I'd suggest Jebao powerheads for lots of good flow. Especially if you want corals later. Two Jebao RW-8 or PP8 will work quite well. You need good flow to keep detritus in the water column until its filtered out.

I would mod the Tidal into a fuge. Looks like it will already be pretty easy. Look up Aquaclear fuge mod, basically copy that. What happens is you put a macroalgae like chaeto in the HOB. You have mesh or something glued or silicones across the outflow so it can't flow out. Put a small chamber for floss, and then the rest for chaeto. The chaeto grows, you trim it down by 25% or so when it fills the HOB, and there goes all those nutrients that it used to grow.

 

Culprit, thank you for so MUCH information. Its a lot to remember!
I have 120# of live sand and 80# of rock and just recently added 20# of crushed coral. The tang is about the size of an old liberty silver dollar coin. About 3 - 3 1/2". The bicolor angel is around the same size. I was glad to hear you say that the fluctuation 8.0-8.3 is normal. I was worried about that.
I don't have good enough lighting for anything except viewing the fish : / Its just LED strips, blue and white lights. Not sufficient for corals. Maybe later when finances allow.
As a side question....(not for a clown or eben this tank, but a future tank)....what kind of light do Condy anemones need? I always liked them and thought about another tank for Condys alone, any ideas?