Can PH Affect Fin Rot??

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voiceless_kat

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Following 5 days of no meds and a small water change on day 5, I started Neptune on Maracyn Plus since his tail had more frayed ends. Tank also treated with AmQuel +. New water was conditioned with StressCoat. (there is also healing happening)

Water today tested as follows; 0ppm for Nitrate & Nitrite; .25 ppm Ammon, and PH is 7.2. I tested the treated water ( not in tank) it was PH 6.6. Town water pre-treatment is 6.2.

When I first got Neptune it was advised not to treat PH with the Up & Down solutions, since bettas were good at adapting. Given that my tank is not cycled, could this PH reading have any detrimental effect on fin rot? And is it advisable to use PH Down to treat, of just leave it.

I will get the ZymBac tomorrow to get cycling on its way following this round of Maracyn Plus.

Thanks for advice. Val
 

griffin

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personally, i think that those pH products just cause more trouble. however, your pH readings are very different. i'm not sure that the answer depends on whether your tank is cycled as pH in a cycled and uncycled tank under the same conditions should be similar.

my thought is to just leave it, but that's just what i think. hopefully some better informed people will stop by and help you out!
 

COBettaCouple

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Hmm.. that's unusual for the water to go up in pH like that, but if it stays consistent in the tank I don't think it should affect the fin rot.

Is there anything in your tank that might raise the pH? What containers to you collect your tap water in? Are you using the API pH test?
 
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voiceless_kat

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Well, in case I have really gone off the deep end, :-\I just rechecked the PH. Tank is definetly at 7.2. However I did mix up the not treated and treated not in tank water. Town water is 6.6 and treated water is 6.2. I just added a bit of AmQuel plus to tank ( 1/2 tsp) to see if that brings it down. Water source is the same as always and sits at least 24 hours after treatment, before adding to tank when required.

There are no live plants; no other critters than Neptune. Gravel is clean, just vacuumed on Monday. ( Silk) Plants are clean. Bridge is good. Temp is 82. Light is flourescent - but I have kept it off most of the time. PH test is API.

Please weigh in - something to be concerned about, or not? Can't seem to find anything that explains why PH would be higher in tank. I thought that since the fin rot seems chronic, this might be part of the reason?/

Val
 

Eskielvr

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Val, all of my tank's PH is always around 7.4 to 7.6. I've never been able to bring it down, so I leave it alone. (The only reason why I wanted it brought down was because my 20 gallon has Neons and they're supposed to like 6.5) I really don't think PH has any affect on it, and messing with it all the time can stress the fish, too.

You might really want to consider moving him into a smaller or different tank and focus on getting yours cycled. Spartacus has been thriving and healing in my 1 gallon unheated vase. I took the marbles out to give him more room, and now all I have to do is suck up his waste with a turkey baster and do a water change when it needs it. It sounds like if your tank doesn't get cycled you're going to be battling this forever. (And of course if you try to cycle it with him in there, it will more than likely kill him.)

My conclusion: If the environment is unbalanced, so will your fish be!
 

COBettaCouple

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It might be a little odd what's happening with the pH, but I think that as long as the tank pH is stable, there's nothing to worry about. Our pH runs 7.4-7.6 in all of our tanks and we let it be since it stays pretty stable and the fish are happy with it.
 

chickadee

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There is an article that EXTREMELY high pH will cause finrot and I mean extreme not in the 7.0 to 8.0 range. The easiest way to lower it that I know of is to get a small piece of driftwood but a SMALL one. A large one will REALLY lower it. Drs. Foster and Smith have some that all you have to do is soak for 2 weeks and it does not need an anchor. It sinks on its own. I have some in a couple of my tanks and the Pleco and otos in those tanks love it. and it did bring the pH down even though my pH really did not need to be brought down.

Rose
 

COBettaCouple

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chickadee said:
There is an article that EXTREMELY high pH will cause finrot and I mean extreme not in the 7.0 to 8.0 range. The easiest way to lower it that I know of is to get a small piece of driftwood but a SMALL one. A large one will REALLY lower it. Drs. Foster and Smith have some that all you have to do is soak for 2 weeks and it does not need an anchor. It sinks on its own. I have some in a couple of my tanks and the Pleco and otos in those tanks love it. and it did bring the pH down even though my pH really did not need to be brought down.

Rose
Thanks for the tip. We might look into that when we can. The driftwood they send is Betta-safe? or do you have to smooth it off any?
 

Phloxface

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I have a problem with EXTREMELY high PH levels that are off the scale! My kit and my Seachem PH alert (which goes up to 8.6) can not even measure it!  I have recently bought a small piece of Mopani driftwood (an african wood) from Petsmart for $8. It is the second highest type of driftwood for leeching tannins which help soften water and lower PH. It is extremely dense and self sinking. I am currently soaking it in a bucket of water and will boil it before putting it in Lava's tank. I am hoping it may bring the PH down just a little as well as the fact that it looks really nice. If anyone is near a Petsmart and wants one they are in the reptile isle. The wood has been sand-blasted so it's not rough. Any spots still too rough can be sanded down with some sandpaper.
I've also thought about ordering some Atison's Betta Spa and using it at a weaker dose than suggested to also help with PH as well as the fact that it can boost his immune system and strengthen his teeth and scales.
 

COBettaCouple

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we only have a petco unfortunately. But will look there for the mopani driftwood. Do you order the Betta Spa from the DFS site?
 

chickadee

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I have the Betta Spa and my boys freaked out when their water changed colors and the stuff changed the water. I cannot say it is bad for them but some bettas may not like the look of it. Just be prepared to do an emergency water change if you happen to have a picky little one.

Rose
 

COBettaCouple

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The Betta Spa stuff changes water color? is it like the fungus clear tabs?
 

chickadee

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It is a very dark brown and will make your water a dark tan color which is not really murky but noticeable and darkens it. It is just enough for the bettas to notice I guess and I only used about a teaspoon for the 5 gallon tank which was not nearly what they wanted to have added to make a whole dose. I think it was actually a teaspoon for 1 gallon actually that was called for. It is about the color of dark tea.

It contains Almond Leaf which will help their immune system but if they are going to have tantrums the whole time it is in there, I am too big a softy and they can have their Vita Chem instead.

Rose
 

COBettaCouple

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chickadee said:
It is a very dark brown and will make your water a dark tan color which is not really murky but noticeable and darkens it. It is just enough for the bettas to notice I guess and I only used about a teaspoon for the 5 gallon tank which was not nearly what they wanted to have added to make a whole dose. I think it was actually a teaspoon for 1 gallon actually that was called for. It is about the color of dark tea.

It contains Almond Leaf which will help their immune system but if they are going to have tantrums the whole time it is in there, I am too big a softy and they can have their Vita Chem instead.

Rose
wow.. that sounds wild.. yea, i think Sora would accept it being mr. peaceful, but Aslan might jump out and spit water at us if we did that to his. I think I'd stick with VitaChem too. interesting that Bettas and almond leaves cross paths in another way.
 

Eskielvr

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Well, considering that almond leaves fall off the trees and scatter the ground and water everywhere in the region they're from (among other places), it's not much of a surprise that they'd do well with it.

Plus, most fish generally like a darker tank since they don't feel as vulnerable and it gives them a sense of security. I had to decipher the dosages since it was written for liters and not gallons, but basically it's 10 ml per 5 gallons. If you're conditioning them for breeding, then you'd use 20 ml per 5 gallons. That's when it really darkens the water. But, for regular use and maintainence just use 10 ml per 5 gallons, or less if you want.
 

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I'm going to get them used to it very slowly, just adding about 1/2 ml each day with an eyedropper. I don't want them to have a drastic change in PH all at once, especially since mine is SO high (over 9.0)
Lava needs all the help he can get with all his health problems lately so if I can strengthen his immune system that would be good. I'll buy the VitaChem stuff too.
 

chickadee

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Please do feel free to use it if you feel you want to. It is a good product, and please also remember that if anyone on this forum has spoilt rotten little dickens of bettas it is probably me and I never usually have the heart to make them do what they do not want to unless it is for their health like medicine or a water change or gravel care. Otherwise, I am afraid they pretty much rule the roost around here.

The Vita Chem I use Every Day when they are sick or being medicated and it is really best if you can get it onto their food at least 5 days a week but here again mine will only stand it in the water so it goes in the water. Two drops per gallon of tank size.

Rose
 

Phloxface

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My Bettas pretty much own me too! ;D ALL my disposable income goes towards buying them things. I never get myself anything anymore. Even recent furniture purchases are more for them than me. My priorities for furniture are, will it hold a tank and does it have storage space for all their "things".
 
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voiceless_kat

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Is it okay to use vita chem when the tank is cycling??
 

Phloxface

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Vitamins will not affect the cycle. Go ahead and use it. The only things that would affect the cycle are products that get rid of ammonia and nitrite, like Prime and AmQuel+
 
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