Can I have african cichlids?

Hello, so I'll be getting a 40 gallon breeder, and I was considering some African cichlids. I'll be using an Aquaclear 70 for filtration. The problem is, my pH is around 7.8 to 8, but my water is soft. I wondered if I used the CaribSea African cichlid sand, would that make it ok? Or would I need to add some kind of buffer to the tank and to the replacement water after PWCs?

If yes, could I get a stocking idea for the 40 gallon? Preferably, I'd like a variety of common ones (Because my LFS is a Petsmart).Edit: I was thinking about Yellow labs, Bumblebees, Auratus, and some blue/other colored ones. You guys are the experts, correct me what I can and can't have. Could I also get a link to some caves/decorations they could use for territories or a picture of one so I could make my own?

If no, would the following stocking be alright?
x1 Firemouth cichlid
x5 Yo-yo loaches
x1 Bristlenose Pleco
x10 Tiger barbs

Sorry if that was a lot

 

Not sure aboit the stocking but if you want to increase hardness, by adding certain stones you can increase the hardness. You wouldnt have to add any supplements, just scape with these stones and that will do

 

Not sure aboit the stocking but if you want to increase hardness, by adding certain stones you can increase the hardness. You wouldnt have to add any supplements, just scape with these stones and that will do

Thanks

 

Petsmart sells a variety of African Cichlids, especially Mbuna. I've seen
Red Zebras, Yellow Labs, Demansoni, Johanni, Yellow Tail Acei, Kenyi, Auratus & Bumblebees. Good to avoid the last two, very aggressive. They also sell assorted Peacocks.
A Limestone rock pile will buffer the water. Shop your local rockyard. Large selection of rocks, very inexpensive.
Your alternative stock list likely would work too. Need to add 2 or three more Firemouths. They do much better in groups.

 

I have the opposite issue. I have hard water and want some soft water fish. I got some great advice in another thread. The general advice was that fish are more adaptable than I previously thought.

However, Algonquin explained that it may be easier to keep soft water fish in hard water than to keep hard water fish in soft water. This is because an osmoregulation process that requires minerals in hard water.

Perhaps Algonquin will chime in with more input.

 

I would add a buffer personally...the rocks will help, of course, but sooner or later they are going to stop leaching buffers into the water. Here's a simple recipe; Rift Lake Buffer Recipe - Cichlid Salt

If I was able to have a 40 breeder (not permitted by my landlord, sadly) I would set it up as a species tank and get a colony of some kind of Malawi or Victorian cichlid online (naturally for a tank this size you wouldn't want a hyper aggressive species like Pundamilia nyererei or Pseudotropheus demasoni). Most african cichlids in pet stores are hybrids and are not as attractive as the species they were bred from. One species I really long for is Haplochromis 'ruby green'; another is Labidochromis chisumulae. Both are small, relatively peaceful rift lake cichlids (I've seen ruby green colonies kept with swordtails before, for example) and the males of both species look fantastic.

I have the opposite issue. I have hard water and want some soft water fish. I got some great advice in another thread. The general advice was that fish are more adaptable than I previously thought.

However, Algonquin explained that it may be easier to keep soft water fish in hard water than to keep hard water fish in soft water. This is because an osmoregulation process that requires minerals in hard water.

Perhaps Algonquin will chime in with more input.

It is easier to keep fish that like your tap water as is...however, modifying soft water to make it hard is FAR easier than making hard water soft (speaking from experience here).

 

Not sure aboit the stocking but if you want to increase hardness, by adding certain stones you can increase the hardness. You wouldnt have to add any supplements, just scape with these stones and that will do

Amazon.com : Texas Holey Rock Honeycomb Limestone 15 lbs Natural High Grade Unbleached : Pet Supplies
Would this be good?

Petsmart sells a variety of African Cichlids, especially Mbuna. I've seen
Red Zebras, Yellow Labs, Demansoni, Johanni, Yellow Tail Acei, Kenyi, Auratus & Bumblebees. Good to avoid the last two, very aggressive. They also sell assorted Peacocks.
A Limestone rock pile will buffer the water. Shop your local rockyard. Large selection of rocks, very inexpensive.
Your alternative stock list likely would work too. Need to add 2 or three more Firemouths. They do much better in groups.

Would those be good for the 40 gallon and a beginner African cichlid keeper (me)? Thanks for the list of cichlids as well

 

The only ones I see here that might work in a 40 breeder are the yellow labs and maybe the acei...a tad big, but less psychotic than most other mbuna (including all the other petsmart species mentioned). All the other species mentioned here need much larger quarters if you don't want the dominant fish to slaughter everyone else...I would still seek a smaller, less common species online. If you are willing to go beyond Mbuna, some of the smaller victorians (like the aforementioned Haplochromis 'ruby green') could work; even a harem of some of the better behaved peacock cichlids, such as Aulonocara maylandi, could work.

 

Amazon.com : Texas Holey Rock Honeycomb Limestone 15 lbs Natural High Grade Unbleached : Pet Supplies
Would this be good?

Yup

 

The only ones I see here that might work in a 40 breeder are the yellow labs and maybe the acei...a tad big, but less psychotic than most other mbuna (including all the other petsmart species mentioned). All the other species mentioned here need much larger quarters if you don't want the dominant fish to slaughter everyone else...I would still seek a smaller, less common species online. If you are willing to go beyond Mbuna, some of the smaller victorians (like the aforementioned Haplochromis 'ruby green') could work; even a harem of some of the better behaved peacock cichlids, such as Aulonocara maylandi, could work.

Could I do peacocks and some other kind of african cichlid, or just peacocks?

 

Could I do peacocks and some other kind of african cichlid, or just peacocks?

In the confines of a 40 breeder, I would just do one species, peacocks or otherwise. If you had a 75 gallon multiple species would be reasonable, but peacocks are considerably less aggressive than most mbuna and can be severely stressed if you try to house them with, say, Johanni cichlids. Also, many mbuna will readily hybridize with each other or even with some non mbuna, which is frowned upon in the hobby; just a few days ago someone on fishlore posted pictures of fish that were hybrids between a yellow lab and a peacock cichlid.

 

Check your local rockyard or landscape company before buying Texas Holey Rock on line. Its very expensive.
I bought over two hundred lbs. Of THR from local rockyards for 12 cents - 25 cents a lb. It' just Honeycombed Limestone.
You can mix Peacocks, Haps & Mbuna in a 40 gal. as long as they are juveniles & an appropriate hardscape is provided.
At some point look to get a bigger tank & use the 40 gal. as a reserve.

 

In the confines of a 40 breeder, I would just do one species, peacocks or otherwise. If you had a 75 gallon multiple species would be reasonable, but peacocks are considerably less aggressive than most mbuna and can be severely stressed if you try to house them with, say, Johanni cichlids. Also, many mbuna will readily hybridize with each other or even with some non mbuna, which is frowned upon in the hobby; just a few days ago someone on fishlore posted pictures of fish that were hybrids between a yellow lab and a peacock cichlid.

How many peacocks could I do in a 40 gallon without stressing them?

 

Aim for stocking fish that are less than 2" long. Maybe 5 or six male peacocks, unless a breeding project is desired. Females "don't" color up. Only different species of male peacocks. They are very conspecific & like males will fight.
Again, look to get at least a 55 gal. tank within a year.

 

Aim for stocking fish that are less than 2" long. Maybe 5 or six male peacocks, unless a breeding project is desired. Females "don't" color up. Only different species of male peacocks. They are very conspecific & like males will fight.
Again, look to get at least a 55 gal. tank within a year.

Upgrading won't be an option, maybe just a grouping of yellow labs?

 

Yellow Labs & maybe a colony of Demasoni. Yellow & blue fish together would make a very nice display. Don't forget the rock hardscape.

 

Yellow Labs & maybe a colony of Demasoni. Yellow & blue fish together would make a very nice display. Don't forget the rock hardscape.

For sure, and how many labs and demasoni should I have? Sorry about bugging you so much

 

Start all as juveniles. 6 - 8 of each species. Sooner or later mated pairs will become evident.

 

Start all as juveniles. 6 - 8 of each species. Sooner or later mated pairs will become evident.

Don't most rift lake cichlids need to be kept in harems with far more females than males? I was under the understanding that keeping a 'pair' of, say, mbuna is a recipe for a dead female.

 

Don't most rift lake cichlids need to be kept in harems with far more females than males? I was under the understanding that keeping a 'pair' of, say, mbuna is a recipe for a dead female.

How many of each would you suggest?

 

Its very difficult to determine gender of baby Mbuna, especially Demasoni. Have to buy a group and observe.
Yellow Labs aren't quite as hard. Males will develope pronounced black edging on the fins. Females often don't have the black edging, or if they do its not as defined.
Ratios can vary, 1x male to 3x female is a good rule to go by.

 

Its very difficult to determine gender of baby Mbuna, especially Demasoni. Have to buy a group and observe.
Yellow Labs aren't quite as hard. Males will develope pronounced black edging on the fins. Females often don't have the black edging, or if they do its not as defined.
Ratios can vary, 1x male to 3x female is a good rule to go by.

Thanks for all the help

 

Its very difficult to determine gender of baby Mbuna, especially Demasoni. Have to buy a group and observe.
Yellow Labs aren't quite as hard. Males will develope pronounced black edging on the fins. Females often don't have the black edging, or if they do its not as defined.
Ratios can vary, 1x male to 3x female is a good rule to go by.

How does this look?

 

I think it has great potential to work. Be sure to post pics as things progress.

 

I think it has great potential to work. Be sure to post pics as things progress.

Definitely!

 

I could have sworn that trying to keep demasoni in groups smaller than a dozen usually ended in the dominant male slaughtering everyone else?

 

There is really no way of predicting if even the most perfectly put together colony of Mbuna is going to work out. Too many variables.
Keeping African Cichlids in general and even more specifically, Mbuna; is a very challenging part of the hobby.
Once you get the hang of it, keeping Mbuna is very rewarding.

 

You could try a Chindongo Saulosi species tank.

They are a little smaller allowing for a good group in a 40 breeder.

The males are a stunning blue / black striped fish, and the females are a bright yellow, making for good colours even with a single species.

 

toomanyfishes , you mentioned having a 7.8pH but having soft water also. Does your pH stay constant at 7.8? If so, wouldn't worry about it. Fish prefer stable pH that doesn't fluctuate.

Also, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into the AqAdvisor app, especially when there are tons of experienced members on the forum that will give you input.

I would not put Peacocks in a 40g. If you want Mbuna, then stick to the ones that stay 5" and under in my opinion.

Here are some ideas for less agressive Mbuna for a species only tank....

Pseudotropheus Saulosi.

Saulosi Cichlid, Dwarf Mbuna Care - Size, Life Span, Tank Mates, Breeding

Lodotropheus Sprengerae -Rusty

Pseudotropheus Acei

As far as a 40g + African cichlids combo, have you considered other cichlids from lakes other than Malawi, such as Tanganyika shell dwellers?

 

I agree with Pseudotropheus saulosi, they were the first Malawi's I breed.

 

toomanyfishes , you mentioned having a 7.8pH but having soft water also. Does your pH stay constant at 7.8? If so, wouldn't worry about it. Fish prefer stable pH that doesn't fluctuate.

Also, I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock into the AqAdvisor app, especially when there are tons of experienced members on the forum that will give you input.

I would not put Peacocks in a 40g. If you want Mbuna, then stick to the ones that stay 5" and under in my opinion.

Here are some ideas for less agressive Mbuna for a species only tank....

Pseudotropheus Saulosi.

Saulosi Cichlid, Dwarf Mbuna Care - Size, Life Span, Tank Mates, Breeding



Lodotropheus Sprengerae -Rusty

Pseudotropheus Acei

As far as a 40g + African cichlids combo, have you considered other cichlids from lakes other than Malawi, such as Tanganyika shell dwellers?

I'll check my tap water again to be sure it stays constant.

Thanks for the list of fish. I'm looking for a 2 color mix of fish. Could I do yellow labs and acei, or would saulosi work better?

 

All three varieties of those Mbuna can coexist. Can't lose which ever combo you choose. I like the Yellow Lab / Saulosi combination.

 

All three varieties of those Mbuna can coexist. Can't lose which ever combo you choose. I like the Yellow Lab / Saulosi combination.

How many should I look to keep together?
Edit: I mean Aceis and yellow labs or saulosis I should keep together

 

Start them together as juveniles. 5 or 6 of each species should be fine. Keep in mind that although Yellow Tail Acei are peaceful Mbuna, great fish to keep, they grow pretty big. Here's a pic of a 6" Yellow Tail Acei I once kept.

 

toomanyfishes , i posted those videos as examples because I already knew Jason had species profile vids on them. I thought he had one on the Yellow Labs but was mistaken, when I looked I couldn't find one.

What are your thoughts on decor and substrate? I use Quickrete Pool Filter Sand from Home Depot in all our tanks, mainly because it's $7 for a 50lb bag, but it looks good also and easy to clean with a siphon vac. It requires a lot of rinsing, and rinsing and more rinsing. The reward after all rinsing in my experience is a substrate that has zero clouding when disturbed, and all the grains of sands fall right back down without staying suspended in the water column. I dont have experience with the CaribSea you mentioned, but I know a lot of people use it. I think CaribSea carries an 100% Aragonite substrate with no sand mixed in. I think that would provide some buffering properties if you're concerned with pH possibly fluctuating. The channel has two excellent videos I recommend watching, concerning pH and water hardness.

In our African tank, we have limestone blocks and flagstone set up for cave like structures. Last month, we added terra cotta pots to our SA cichlid tank that had been working well. Some were left intact laying on their side, one I knocked out the bottom for a swim through cave, and two pots I carefully broke off a piece of the side to make a cave entrance and laid them upside down. I like A201's suggestion to check out Texas Holey Rock, definitely try to source it from a local garden nursery or a landscaping rock yard if you're interested in that. I want to get some Holey Rock myself, it looks great.

A201, wow, that's a great looking Acei! Mine must be a slow grower. I thought mine was gonna max out at 4.5" - 5", HA. I always learn something new on the forum.

Between the knowledge he shares and his awesome fish, I think A201 needs a youtube channel as well!

 

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I'm just a fish nerd with a lot of time & experience under my belt. Lol.

 

toomanyfishes , i posted those videos as examples because I already knew Jason from had species profile vids on them. I thought he had one on the Yellow Labs but was mistaken, when I looked I couldn't find one.

What are your thoughts on decor and substrate? I use Quickrete Pool Filter Sand from Home Depot in all our tanks, mainly because it's $7 for a 50lb bag, but it looks good also and easy to clean with a siphon vac. It requires a lot of rinsing, and rinsing and more rinsing. The reward after all rinsing in my experience is a substrate that has zero clouding when disturbed, and all the grains of sands fall right back down without staying suspended in the water column. I dont have experience with the CaribSea you mentioned, but I know a lot of people use it. I think CaribSea carries an 100% Aragonite substrate with no sand mixed in. I think that would provide some buffering properties if you're concerned with pH possibly fluctuating. The Prime Time Aquatics channel has two excellent videos I recommend watching, concerning pH and water hardness.

In our African tank, we have limestone blocks and flagstone set up for cave like structures. Last month, we added terra cotta pots to our SA cichlid tank that had been working well. Some were left intact laying on their side, one I knocked out the bottom for a swim through cave, and two pots I carefully broke off a piece of the side to make a cave entrance and laid them upside down. I like A201's suggestion to check out Texas Holey Rock, definitely try to source it from a local garden nursery or a landscaping rock yard if you're interested in that. I want to get some Holey Rock myself, it looks great.


A201, wow, that's a great looking Acei! Mine must be a slow grower. I thought mine was gonna max out at 4.5" - 5", HA. I always learn something new on the forum.

Between the knowledge he shares and his awesome fish, I think A201 needs a youtube channel as well!

Thanks for the channel, I will check it out. The first thing I was gonna do when this quarantine stuff is over was hit up the local garden nursery. I'll get the aragonite sand as well.

I have considered using flower pots in my tanks, however I had trouble on verifying if they were glazed or not. I wish the websites added that one, simple piece of information. :/

 

From what I've seen, the terra cotta pots that have a matte and non-slick finish are not glazed. The ones that are glossy and slick to the touch are glazed. The glazed ones look more decorative. That's of course if I'm thinking of the same ones you are. Im not a clay pottery expert! HA

I just bought the basic looking cheap pots from Home Depot, between $1-$5 each.

 

Sorry, one more thing. When I go to purchase them, should I buy all 6 at once, or would it be alright if the addition was staggered? My fear is that the LFS may not have 6 of them at once. Or would I be better off ordering them online?

 

Hand pick each juvenile fish. Only the most colorful & aggressive of each species. Buy quality not quantity. Its just a lot easier on the new arrivals to add several as to avoid being a lone target from tankmate aggression.