Can I Have A Pond In Extremely Cold Water?

fishpersonallday

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I love goldfish. They are one of my favorite things on this earth and I want more but atm cannot get a tank big enough to house them. I have wanted to do a pond for a very long time but the place I live has honestly the coldest winters almost on this planet besides places that are so extreme you can't live lol.
Let's say overnight it hits 4.3 degrees Fahrenheit and we have at least 5 inches of snow. Or it can potentially reach -60 degrees Fahrenheit (I've never seen it happen but apparently to google it can???)
I would obviously remove the snow around the pond and I know it can't freeze over, so do I use a heater? My filter might freeze so I'd at least have an air pump (at the right place) in the pond. I work almost all day so I can't stand outside to slowly melt the ice off the top.
A lot of people have ponds here but I don't know what they will do during the winter besides put them in a big tank but KoI should not be kept in tanks (winter is a fat 5 months). I can't get a tank to put them in (and I would not get koI anyway.)
I can't have a pond can I? :/ Has anyone dealt with his before? Thank you so much.
 

david1978

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Around here we just dig them deeper then the frost line and leave the fish. Our frost line is 3 feet so on average a pond should be 4 feet deep.
 

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you'll have to dig it deep. and probably use atleast 1 or 2 deicers.

 
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fishpersonallday

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david1978 said:
Around here we just dig them deeper then the frost line and leave the fish. Our frost line is 3 feet so on average a pond should be 4 feet deep.
Skavatar said:
you'll have to dig it deep. and probably use atleast 1 or 2 deicers.

and

My frots line is about 8ft so...?
 

Skavatar

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fishpersonallday said:
My frost line is about 8ft so...?
the wider and deeper the pond the better insulation the deepest part will have. you're probably looking at 12ft or deeper, and about 20ft wide.

no bubblers or water pumps, deicers only to keep a small hole open for gas exchange at the surface.

“Air bubblers and small water pumps can be used to keep small pond areas ice free in regions that the ice only forms for a few days at a time,” he said. “Do not allow them to mix the lower 40 degree puddle of water with the colder top layers.
“Any flow of water across the pond that disturbs the bottom puddle of 40 degree water will eventually lead to a fish kill. They cost less to run than pond deicers, but do not work when the air temperature drops below the teens for extended periods of time.”
In colder regions, pond deicers are not meant to warm the pond, but just to keep a small area free from ice cover for the exchange of gases with the atmosphere.
“If the object being heated is sitting in the freezer and therefore giving up heat at the same time it is gaining heat, it will take longer to warm up and if the freezer is cold enough, it may not warm up at all. So, smaller wattage deicers run longer in northern ponds to do the same work as a bigger wattage deicer does in shorter time. But, the same amount of electricity is used and the electric bill will be identical too. In the coldest weather, a larger wattage deicer will work to keep the ice open that a smaller deicer cannot.”


invasive goldfish takeover pond in Alaska, might be doable if the pond is large and deep enough
 

david1978

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Hmmm so a fish pond at the north pole?
 

CHJ

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Minnesota?
I want to dig (have dug by someone with a back hoe, though if that costs more than a backhoe on craigslist I know how to run a back hoe) one 10-15 feet deep that fills most of my back yard. I have seen thing on youtube that say I should be able to get by with 5 feet which seems a little unbelievable to me. I haven't seen -40 since college but I think the cold snap in Jan can still get to ~-20.
My thought were koI up top and high fin sharks on the bottom. I'd add weather loaches but they are banned . At least no one has been releasing high fins into local waters and getting them banned.
 

JessicaSwanlake

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My first guess was MN too, but as far as I know the deepest frost line is only about 65 inches. Must be ND or Alaska with that frost depth.
The place I used to garden in MN had a pond that had fish in year round. It was about 10 feet deep and I would guess about +15 feet at it's widest part. That pond was like half heaters/deicers and other equipment in the winter though which wasn't a great look (not that anyone looks at ponds much when it is below 0F out anyways). Most of the people I knew there with ponds would just remove all their fish and put them in a 5-6' diameter kiddie pool in their basement with a filter, heater, and some plants until it warmed up again. Obviously that isn't ideal but the fish usually seemed okay and there weren't many deaths (except for the people who had no idea what they were doing).
 

CHJ

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JessicaSwanlake said:
My first guess was MN too, but as far as I know the deepest frost line is only about 65 inches. Must be ND or Alaska with that frost depth.
The place I used to garden in MN had a pond that had fish in year round. It was about 10 feet deep and I would guess about +15 feet at it's widest part. That pond was like half heaters/deicers and other equipment in the winter though which wasn't a great look (not that anyone looks at ponds much when it is below 0F out anyways). Most of the people I knew there with ponds would just remove all their fish and put them in a 5-6' diameter kiddie pool in their basement with a filter, heater, and some plants until it warmed up again. Obviously that isn't ideal but the fish usually seemed okay and there weren't many deaths (except for the people who had no idea what they were doing).
Wow, I can't imagine heating something that large in a Minnesota winter.
A hot tub is much warmer but ~15 years ago even with all its insulation would cost 100$/month to heat.
A whole pond has to be nuts due to size even if much cooler.
 

Jimmie93

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The trick with goldfish ponds is flowing water you don't even need heat as long as water is flowing it will not freeze some parts might freeze but with a good flow you will have open spots. My old pond ran for the whole winter the whole top was frozen with deep ice except for a 2-3 inch spot around the filter and I had no losses.

gYsgz3l.jpg


This picture is a good example and as far as I know cold water doesn't effect goldfish unless they are basically frozen solid.
 

H Farnsworth

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I'm gonna try this
Jimmie93 said:
The trick with goldfish ponds is flowing water you don't even need heat as long as water is flowing it will not freeze some parts might freeze but with a good flow you will have open spots. My old pond ran for the whole winter the whole top was frozen with deep ice except for a 2-3 inch spot around the filter and I had no losses.

gYsgz3l.jpg


This picture is a good example and as far as I know cold water doesn't effect goldfish unless they are basically frozen solid.
 

Foxxway

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Jimmie93 said:
The trick with goldfish ponds is flowing water you don't even need heat as long as water is flowing it will not freeze some parts might freeze but with a good flow you will have open spots. My old pond ran for the whole winter the whole top was frozen with deep ice except for a 2-3 inch spot around the filter and I had no losses.

gYsgz3l.jpg


This picture is a good example and as far as I know cold water doesn't effect goldfish unless they are basically frozen solid.
When you say "water flow", do you mean running the pond pump through the winter?
I'm in a dilemma about what to do about my 110 gal patio pond as it's getting quite cold here in Missouri.
I've thought about running the pond pumps AND a few 300watt heaters. For good measure, getting a cheap greenhouse thingy to help keep it sheltered.
 

Jimmie93

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Foxxway said:
When you say "water flow", do you mean running the pond pump through the winter?
I'm in a dilemma about what to do about my 110 gal patio pond as it's getting quite cold here in Missouri.
I've thought about running the pond pumps AND a few 300watt heaters. For good measure, getting a cheap greenhouse thingy to help keep it sheltered.
You need water flow at the top of the water kinda like what a hang on the back filter does. You can buy a submersible pump and run a hose to the surface.
 

Jack B Nimble

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FishRFriendz said:
Hmm.sounds so warm, well I live in the 3rd Coldest city in the world so....you can keep a pond just buy an item called a pond breather. It runs very cost effectively and keeps a air hole in pond. I don't run mine in winter and choose to bring the fish indoors but many do keep them out.
 

saltwater60

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Jimmie93 said:
The trick with goldfish ponds is flowing water you don't even need heat as long as water is flowing it will not freeze some parts might freeze but with a good flow you will have open spots. My old pond ran for the whole winter the whole top was frozen with deep ice except for a 2-3 inch spot around the filter and I had no losses.

gYsgz3l.jpg


This picture is a good example and as far as I know cold water doesn't effect goldfish unless they are basically frozen solid.
This won’t work. I live in Buffalo, NY and I keep my pump running all year round and it still freezers over. No the return line isn't submerged and I keep it about 3-4” above the waters surface. The bubbles freeze and then it just keeps building. My area gets to about 0 F so no this won’t work. My pump is 4300 gallons per hour and it’s only 18” deep in the pond so not much head pressure. My pond is 53” deep and my frost line is only 42”.

Foxxway said:
When you say "water flow", do you mean running the pond pump through the winter?
I'm in a dilemma about what to do about my 110 gal patio pond as it's getting quite cold here in Missouri.
I've thought about running the pond pumps AND a few 300watt heaters. For good measure, getting a cheap greenhouse thingy to help keep it sheltered.
You’ll still have to watch it. Mine freezers over in January and February and I have a 4300 gph pump running. I have to break up ice more than a few times.
 

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