Can Dirty Filter Be Root Of Ammonia

I have a 20 gallon tank cycling. Ammonia spike as expected, nitrite spike, nitrates typical flow. Nitrites dropped to 0, ammonia went down considerably but stays about 1.

Doing maintenance with water changes and prime to protect fish but it won't drop.

I have not changed filter media as the tank has not fully cycled so I didnt want to disrupt it but it has been running for 3 months. Could the dirty pad and filter be the source of the ammonia?

 

Possibly. What I would do is get a sponge or other bacteria holder and put it in there for a week or two. After that you can clean the filter media and still have bacteria. Just an idea. Good luck.

 

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia?

 

Possibly. What I would do is get a sponge or other bacteria holder and put it in there for a week or two. After that you can clean the filter media and still have bacteria. Just an idea. Good luck.

I switched to a tetra ex20. It has a bio surface on it. Would you still recommend additional sponge or media or go as designed? The internal filter was killing fish as they kept on getting caught behind it

Have you tested your tap water for ammonia?

Yes it is 00. I do have another tank cycled, 0 ammonia doing weekly water changes in it

 

After 3 months I feel sure your filter media needs to be cleaned. Have you pulled it out to see what it looks like? If it is covered in waste it is possible the bacteria on it is overwhelmed with waste and is no longer able to do its job.

 

Yes it probably is the reason for ammonia. Your doing a fish in cycle with an hob filter. It should be rinsed at least once a week and the water changed to keep 5he ammonia as low as possible. No higher than .25.

 

After 3 months I feel sure your filter media needs to be cleaned. Have you pulled it out to see what it looks like? If it is covered in waste it is possible the bacteria on it is overwhelmed with waste and is no longer able to do its job.

It did look pretty dirty. I had read don't touch it until cycled so that is why I didnt. The new filter has been there 2 weeks so I am pulling the internal out and just going to watch for minI cycle

 

It did look pretty dirty. I had read don't touch it until cycled so that is why I didnt. The new filter has been there 2 weeks so I am pulling the internal out and just going to watch for minI cycle

When doing a fish in cycle one does need to occasionally clean the filter. The bacteria growing on it isn't easily washed off. As long as you are cleaning it in water pulled from the tank or fresh dechlorinated water cleaning it isn't going to be removing enough bacteria to hurt the cycling process.

If it isn't cleaned off from time to time you can run into what you are dealing with right now.

I really wish the "Don't clean the filter" during cycling would die a quick death or at least those that say it would add "while doing a fishless cycle"

When doing a fish-in cycle waste is going to build up on the filter media. That usually isn't the case while doing a fish-less cycle.

Since this isn't a well established cycle I really wouldn't be removing ANY media until the new filter has been running for at least a month. I would just rinse and replace the media in the internal filter and leave it there for at least 2 more weeks.

or....

If you choose to remove it put the media from it in your new filter after rinsing it.

 

When doing a fish in cycle one does need to occasionally clean the filter. The bacteria growing on it isn't easily washed off. As long as you are cleaning it in water pulled from the tank or fresh dechlorinated water cleaning it isn't going to be removing enough bacteria to hurt the cycling process.

If it isn't cleaned off from time to time you can run into what you are dealing with right now.

I really wish the "Don't clean the filter" during cycling would die a quick death or at least those that say it would add "while doing a fishless cycle"

When doing a fish-in cycle waste is going to build up on the filter media. That usually isn't the case while doing a fish-less cycle.

Since this isn't a well established cycle I really wouldn't be removing ANY media until the new filter has been running for at least a month. I would just rinse and replace the media in the internal filter and leave it there for at least 2 more weeks.

or....

If you choose to remove it put the media from it in your new filter after rinsing it.

I have rinsed it once but it is a bit beyond rinsing and I was afraid to replace it. But either way the internal filter took another casualty today so I had enough and took it out and am hoping my cycle maintains with the HOB that ran for a few weeks. If not, I will deal with it. The internal filter has probably killed at least 4-5 fish with them getting caught behind it and it is a pain to maintain. So time to cut my losses and move on. If by chance the ammonia drops and I am okay fantastic. If not, it is not like I am cycling from day 1 so I should be able to maintain it.

 

I have rinsed it once but it is a bit beyond rinsing and I was afraid to replace it. But either way the internal filter took another casualty today so I had enough and took it out and am hoping my cycle maintains with the HOB that ran for a few weeks. If not, I will deal with it. The internal filter has probably killed at least 4-5 fish with them getting caught behind it and it is a pain to maintain. So time to cut my losses and move on. If by chance the ammonia drops and I am okay fantastic. If not, it is not like I am cycling from day 1 so I should be able to maintain it.

Oh my goodness. I would get it out of there too. Filters are supposed to be good things, not something that traps and kills fish.

 

Oh my goodness. I would get it out of there too. Filters are supposed to be good things, not something that traps and kills fish.

Yea its terrible. I am doing water changes constantly due to the cycling and every time I shut it down fish go behind it. I have to swoop with a net etc and do everything to keep them out of there and hurry to turn it back on. Almost always within a few hours I find one caught and if I don't see it, that's the end.

Lost 4 cory's that way and a perfectly beautiful and healthy sword tail this morning.

So that's it, its already in the garbage lol

 

Did the internal filter use cartridges as well?

If so, you can cut the felt looking material off the cartridge frame, and place it in the reservoir of the new hang-on-back filter.

That way you can transfer some of the beneficial bacteria over.

I wasn't familiar with the Tetra EX20 you mentioned, so I look it up on YouTube.

That's a very interesting frame system that holds the replaceable cartridge in the back of the reservoir.

When the primary cartridge gets filthy, it looks like the frame can hold a piece of filter pad cut from a roll of bulk media.

I've bought rolls of bull media in the past from Amazon, and they work better than cartridges from my experience. They save you a lot of money as well.

Cutting replacement for cartridge from bulk roll media

• Islandvic
• Dec 24, 2018

The replacement for the cartridge cut from bulk roll media was 5.5" tall, slightly shorter than...

The front plastic contraption in the EX20 looks a little gimmicky in my opinion.

It reminds me of the worthless blue plastic bio-grid included in Top Fin filters. I toss those out immediately.

Top Fin Silenstream stock filter media

• Islandvic
• Dec 24, 2018

Here is a pic of the stock filter media: a throw away cartridge and a plastic bio-grid.

That area would be better served with a block of foam sponge in its place for example. That would colonize beneficial bacteria infinitely better than the green plastic scrub pad looking insert of the Tetra. A block of foam sponge will have more total surface area versus the plastic insert.

I like using the Aquaclear 3-pack replacement of foam sponge blocks. Depending on the size and where you buy them, they range from $3-$6 for a box of 3.

Aquaclear 50 Sponges

• Islandvic
• Dec 24, 2018

Aquaclear/Fluval sponge replacements are available in 3-packs for $3-$5. Perfect for DIY media!

Adding extra media to your filter may help with your cycle, giving the beneficial bacteria additional space fo colonize.

 

Did the internal filter use cartridges as well?

If so, you can cut the felt looking material off the cartridge frame, and place it in the reservoir of the new hang-on-back filter.
That way you can transfer some of the beneficial bacteria over.

I wasn't familiar with the Tetra EX20 you mentioned, so I look it up on YouTube.
That's a very interesting frame system that holds the replaceable cartridge in the back of the reservoir.
When the primary cartridge gets filthy, it looks like the frame can hold a piece of filter pad cut from a roll of bulk media.

I've bought rolls of bull media in the past from Amazon, and they work better than cartridges from my experience. They save you a lot of money as well
The front plastic contraption in the EX20 looks a little gimmicky in my opinion.
It reminds me of the worthless blue plastic bio-grid included in Top Fin filters. I toss those out immediately

That area would be better served with a block of foam sponge in its place for example. That would colonize beneficial bacteria infinitely better than the green plastic scrub pad looking insert of the Tetra. A block of foam sponge will have more total surface area versus the plastic insert.
I like using the Aquaclear 3-pack replacement of foam sponge blocks. Depending on the size and where you buy them, they range from $3-$6 for a box of 3.
Adding extra media to your filter may help with your cycle, giving the beneficial bacteria additional space fo colonize.

How do I determine if that front biological piece works or not? I guess just give it some time and see if it does the trick with the ammonia and nitrite's? I purposedly upgraded to something with some form of biological insert as the internal filter didnt have any. Just the cartridge with the white pad filter and the carbon inside. So I thought that was pretty weak and upgraded to this one.

I know the cartridges are slightly more expensive but I don't mind paying for convenience, ordering in bulk on amazon, and just swapping without the cut and paste project to assembly my own. Its worth a few bucks for the time to me.

 

Wait, are we supposed to clean or change the filter? I have been cycled for 3 weeks..with 0 to 0.25 ppm ammonia, all of a sudden today I see 0.50 ppm ammonia that doesn't make any sense.

 

Wait, are we supposed to clean or change the filter? I have been cycled for 3 weeks..with 0 to 0.25 ppm ammonia, all of a sudden today I see 0.50 ppm ammonia that doesn't make any sense.

Sounds like my world. I have been running hte new filter now alone since this morning so tonight I am curious to see what happens to my readings.

 

Yes it works. I have to believe they used professionals to study it and make sure it can hold bacteria. Is it the best? No but it is something. As Islandvic shows you can do the same with that filter. If it’s new remove the cartridge and fill that area with a sponge. The sponge will hold plenty of good bacteria and last an unbelievably long time. Just rinse it when cleaning filter.

The fishmonger are you doing a fish in cycle? If so yes the filter needs to be cleaned. If not and doing a fishless cycle no it doesn’t need to be cleaned

 

Yes it works. I have to believe they used professionals to study it and make sure it can hold bacteria. Is it the best? No but it is something. As Islandvic shows you can do the same with that filter. If it’s new remove the cartridge and fill that area with a sponge. The sponge will hold plenty of good bacteria and last an unbelievably long time. Just rinse it when cleaning filter.

But don't you want the carbon in there?

 

Yes it can. Opened a Eheim canister recently. An incredible ammoniasmell came from it and the plastic buckets even seemed to be affected / burned/ discolored. Never seen it before.

Strange thing is it still had an outflow.

 

I haven’t used carbon in 40yrs. It’s main purpose is to remove odor and some say it cleans the water.

 

Wait, are we supposed to clean or change the filter? I have been cycled for 3 weeks..with 0 to 0.25 ppm ammonia, all of a sudden today I see 0.50 ppm ammonia that doesn't make any sense.

Clean the filter media in dechlorinated water. Only change filter media of it's falling apart or so grimy that vigorous rinsing doesn't purge it enough that water will run through it.

 

I don't use carbon either. It really isn't necessary. Normally the reason for having to change a cartridge is because the carbon in it loses its little bit of usefulness. It soon starts breaking down and that is usually when the flow of water through it slows down. It is the breaking down of the carbon clogging up the fiber.

 

You can certainly use the plastic bio-grid contraption. I'm not sure how much it will help your tank's nitrogen cycle after you discard and replace the main cartridge though.

As others stated, carbon is 100% optional. Nothing is wrong with using it. It has a finite life, with most members stating it lasts generally 4-6 weeks until it reached its capacity to adsorb when a sufficient amount is used.

It is effective for removing medications, tannins released by real wood decor and odors.

The amount of carbon included in cartridges is probably not enough to be effective past a week.

Carbon is always marketed as "removing impurities and toxins". I'm not sure where other people get their water to fill their fish tanks with, but mine comes from the same faucet when I get my drinking water from, ha ! If our municipal water supply had enough toxins and impurities in it where I needed carbon for my aquariums, my family wouldn't be drinking or bathing in it.

Regarding when you use cartridges that are discarded and replaced with a new one, whatever amount of colonized beneficial bacteria on it that was supporting the nitrogen cycle is now gone.

Big box stores and manufacturers of the cartridges like having the hobbyist rely on ca5rtrisges that has to be replaced every month. It's a continuous revenue generator, both directly and indirectly.

When these cartridges are thrown away and replaced, the hobbyist's nitrogen cycle takes a dump with a resulting ammonia spike.

Now the big box stores and filter manufacturers will step up and provide a solution, happily selling more products to them, like bottled ammonia remover.

It's a vicious cycle that drives many first time fish keepers away from the hobby after being unable to sustain a healthy tank.

It's all marketing and revenue generation, which I can't blame them for, but these companies should be better stewards of the hobby, promoting education and better products.

That's why I like the cartridge free design of the Aquaclear and the Seachem Tidal filters and why I promote options for not using them.

 

You can certainly use the plastic bio-grid contraption. I'm not sure how much it will help your tank's nitrogen cycle after you discard and replace the main cartridge though.

As others stated, carbon is 100% optional. Nothing is wrong with using it. It has a finite life, with most members stating it lasts generally 4-6 weeks until it reached its capacity to adsorb when a sufficient amount is used.

It is effective for removing medications, tannins released by real wood decor and odors.

The amount of carbon included in cartridges is probably not enough to be effective past a week.

Carbon is always marketed as "removing impurities and toxins". I'm not sure where other people get their water to fill their fish tanks with, but mine comes from the same faucet when I get my drinking water from, ha ! If our municipal water supply had enough toxins and impurities in it where I needed carbon for my aquariums, my family wouldn't be drinking or bathing in it.

Regarding when you use cartridges that are discarded and replaced with a new one, whatever amount of colonized beneficial bacteria on it that was supporting the nitrogen cycle is now gone.

Big box stores and manufacturers of the cartridges like having the hobbyist rely on ca5rtrisges that has to be replaced every month. It's a continuous revenue generator, both directly and indirectly.

When these cartridges are thrown away and replaced, the hobbyist's nitrogen cycle takes a dump with a resulting ammonia spike.

Now the big box stores and filter manufacturers will step up and provide a solution, happily selling more products to them, like bottled ammonia remover.

It's a vicious cycle that drives many first time fish keepers away from the hobby after being unable to sustain a healthy tank.

It's all marketing and revenue generation, which I can't blame them for, but these companies should be better stewards of the hobby, promoting education and better products.

That's why I like the cartridge free design of the Aquaclear and the Seachem Tidal filters and why I promote options for not using them.

Interesting.... I intentionally didnt get the Aquaclear filter caused it looked like a pain to get down to the sponge and clean it out.... So if I have the bio part in my filter, replacing the cartridge shouldnt be a big deal should it? But long term you are saying replace that cartrirdge with just a sponge? I always took it that the carbon was actually what was cleaning the water...

 

Interesting.... I intentionally didnt get the Aquaclear filter caused it looked like a pain to get down to the sponge and clean it out.... So if I have the bio part in my filter, replacing the cartridge shouldnt be a big deal should it? But long term you are saying replace that cartrirdge with just a sponge? I always took it that the carbon was actually what was cleaning the water...

The bacteria are removing the nitrogen waste byproducts, the sponge and/or mesh are removing fine particulates, the carbon removes chemicals (like drugs & pesticides, herbicides) and can remove tannins. Some nitrifying bacteria can attach to carbon but I don't use it (except to remove residual medication)simply because I keep African Cichlids and there is a suspected link between the use of Carbon and HITH.

 

The fishmonger are you doing a fish in cycle? If so yes the filter needs to be cleaned. If not and doing a fishless cycle no it doesn’t need to be cleaned

Fish in cycle. So how often do I need to rinse the filter pad? Every 4 weeks?

The 0.50 ppm ammonia could be from the 6 bladder snails I transferred from the 5.5 gallons that probably died. I don't see any of them nearly a week later and one was in pretty bad shape, stuck for days in the top of the tank. My barbs like to nip at them and the snail was too scared to come down.

So my guess is that the snails died of stress and some got eaten and ammonia rose. They were pretty small too, which explains the 0.50 ppm spike. When the barbs eat them, they leave 1/2 the snail in it's shell. So I am guessing that's what happened.

 

You said in one of the beginning posts you have an already cycled tank. You can take some media from that tank and add it to the newer tank and will basically give you an instant cycle. I didn't notice if anyone already mentioned that and if they did then I'll going about my way now

 

You said in one of the beginning posts you have an already cycled tank. You can take some media from that tank and add it to the newer tank and will basically give you an instant cycle. I didn't notice if anyone already mentioned that and if they did then I'll going about my way now

Problem is if I do that I would have zero filtration in that tank. Its a starter setup with an internal filter. I can't remove any part of it, its an all or nothing thing

But what is confusing me is I am 90% sure this tank did cycle and something is causing hte ammonia to keep on creeping up. I am going to monitor it and give it another week. I trimmed some plants last night ot remove any leaves not looking good to see if that could be it.

Other thing is this is a guppy tank and my guppy's are having a good time and we now have lots of fry. But I would have to assume the bio load on fry is negligible and that couldnt be it.

 

If I were you I would put a small corner sponge filter in each of these tanks. If you continue to have trouble with this tank and the other one continues to hold its cycle you can switch sponge filters after a few weeks. That will transfer some of the bacteria from the cycled tank over to this one.

If I am remembering correctly these tanks are in two different rooms so for each of them you will need sponge filter, airline tubing, check valve, control valve and an air pump. Each setup can be bought for less than $20.00 if you shop around.

If you are in the US and shop ebay check out cll_petsupplies . I have bought from them numerous times and have been satisfied with my purchases each time.

 

Interesting.... I intentionally didnt get the Aquaclear filter caused it looked like a pain to get down to the sponge and clean it out.... So if I have the bio part in my filter, replacing the cartridge shouldnt be a big deal should it? But long term you are saying replace that cartrirdge with just a sponge? I always took it that the carbon was actually what was cleaning the water...

Momgoose56's post explained it right, in reference to the carbon and 3 stages of filtration.

ivanjay205 , Looking back at my original post, I thought I had given a link to a thread on the forum, regarding filter media plus a variety of examples and combinations of adding media to your filter. (LINK). Its become a long thread, but a lot of good info is in it, and many members have contributed to it.

In my opinion, Aquaclears are not too hard to clean. Just unplug it, remove the basket and swish the media around in a bucket of tank water. Then place the basket back in it and plug it back in the wall. All done, and your beneficial bacteria is still intact. Here is a pic I took last year, showing an example of how I had loaded a smaller Aquaclear 30 basket.


If the fine floss got nasty and mucked up, it was discarded and replaced. The sponge and bag of media would hold the majority of the beneficial bacteria for example.

You had mentioned that your ammonia was good, then started to rise again.

All tanks have ammonia, but if the beneficial bacteria can process it efficiently, it will read zero on tests because of how fast its eliminated.

If your getting ammonia readings, then the tank hasn't colonized enough beneficial bacteria to process it.

Beneficial bacteria needs surface area to colonize on. When you increase the available surface area available for it to colonize on, you increase the potential to process more ammonia and nitrites.

That is why material like sponges are good at colonizing bacteria, because their surface to volume ratio is high. Porous bio media, like pumice stones, sintered glass and ceramic media has even more internal surface area, allowing for increased colonization of beneficial bacteria.