Can any one identify this fish no idea | Page 2

Discussion in 'Fish, Snail, Worm And Pest ID Help' started by cwboot73, Aug 8, 2015.

  1. Plecomaker

    PlecomakerWell Known MemberMember

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    Indeed, ive wondered in thepast if this is thesame thing ligers have,not to broing up those silly Things again.
    Its call hybrid vigor. The child is larger then either parent.
     
  2. junebug

    junebugFishlore LegendMember

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    I should ask Julie Tran about it next time I talk to her. I know her because she imports bettas alongside her other business, which is Flowerhorn import.

    For the record the term "hybrid vigor" mostly applies to hybrid offspring that are healthier, hardier, and more adaptable than either of the parent fish. It's not about the hump Hybrid vigor is actually fairly rare in nature, most hybrids end up with health issues, or sterile. It would be interesting to find out if this is the case with early flowerhorns.

    Also sorry, being that I'm a wild betta person, I tend to use the wrong term for classifications. Because the various wild betta species all belong to their own families within the genus... it's confusing. LOL. Obviously all cichlids belong to the scientific family cichlidae.
     
  3. hampalong

    hampalongWell Known MemberMember

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    It is. Genera are within families?

     
  4. junebug

    junebugFishlore LegendMember

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    No, the technical name for what I'm talking about is the betta's complex. Splendens complex, coccina complex, etc. When talking with betta folks, often the term "family" and "complex" are used interchangeably. They're called complexes because the fish are very closely related and most can hybridize with each other - which we try to discourage. But closely related = family, right? LOL.
     
  5. hampalong

    hampalongWell Known MemberMember

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    I understand species complexes. I suppose family would be ok in a context where everyone understood it isn't meant taxonomically. But why call them families when they already have the name complex?
     
  6. junebug

    junebugFishlore LegendMember

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    Don't ask me, man lol. That's just how it is. I personally *usually* use the term complex. But after seeing it written by others about a bazillion times, I do sometimes slip.
     
  7. chromedome52

    chromedome52Fishlore VIPMember

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    A lot of people use the term "families" when talking about groups or complexes. The problem with doing so is that Family has a specific taxonomic meaning. It is always a good idea to be as precise as possible with these terms to avoid confusion.

    As of a few years ago, some enthusiasts wouldn't even call the fish a flowerhorn if there wasn't any Trimac in it. The general Cichlid hobby, however, commonly uses the term for pretty much any hybrid of Central American Cichlids. The reason you see a lot that appear to have citrinellus complex in them is that Red Texas culls are being widely distributed through Petsmart, among others. RT is a combination of A. labiatus with Herichthys species, most often H. carpintis. The labiatus is preferred because the color is more red, rather than the yellow/orange of citrinellus. Most "Red Devils" in commercial sources are actually hybrids of these two species anyway.

    Ligers and Tions are bigger than either parent species because the genes that limit size are mixed up and don't know where to stop the growth. It has nothing to do with "hybrid vigor". The same situation occurs with the nuchal hump of Frankenhorns, but linebreeding and diet can take them to ridiculous levels.
     
  8. junebug

    junebugFishlore LegendMember

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    Amen to that. I haven't done enough digging into CA cichlids, or cichlids in general, to know much about their complexes. I do have a few friends that are enthusiasts though.

    Also "Frankenhorns" LOL
     
  9. Plecomaker

    PlecomakerWell Known MemberMember

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    Lol, i know that, but it also applies to increased size in general. Like the increased growth rate that some hybrids display.
     
  10. Plecomaker

    PlecomakerWell Known MemberMember

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    Thats not correct. Those genes are always mixed up depending on individual genetics. Some animals have looser size restrictions.

    vigor is defined as the increase of ANY quality, size included.
     
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