Camallanus, Fry, And Snails

Jellibeen

Well Known Member
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
953
Points
128
Experience
5 to 10 years
So i'm having a worm problem that keeps getting more complicated.

I have a twenty nine gallon with three Apistos, one pleco, two bamboo shrimp, and three zebra loaches. I noticed one of the apistos had what looked like a prolapsed vent with some red strings sticking out. After some research, i realized with dread it must be camallanus worms.

I bought levamisole to treat. Because i use the same tools for my ten gallon, i accepted this tank is likely infected as well. My ten gallon had four zebra danios in it. The meds kill shrimp, so ultimately i moved the shrimp to the ten gallon, the danios to the 29 gallon, and decided to not treat the ten gallon and just wait out the life cycle of the worms. I'm not worried about having to wait months for the worms in the ten gallon to die off since they can't affect my shrimp.

At least, i wasn't worried until i found three fry in my tank. The danios must have laid eggs before i moved them. So now i have three fry in a tank that probably has camallanus in it. Will levamisole kill the fry? Should i move the shrimp to another tank and treat the 10 gallon? The fry are so tiny that i don't want to move them. I was pretty excited to have unexpected babies; i'd hate for them to get infected and die.

The 10 gallon also has a bunch of snails in it. I was planning on raising them to feed to my zebra loaches who seem to really enjoy hunting for snails. Can the snails be infected with worms? I have seen conflicting information about this. Right now i suppose i should err on the side of caution and assume they can be infected.

Any suggestions or insights are much appreciated. I just got back into keeping fish seriously after having a 29 gallon with two fish in it. This is all quite overwhelming.
 

SFGiantsGuy

Well Known Member
Messages
1,088
Reaction score
388
Points
108
Experience
More than 10 years
Keep in mind that Call. worms can also dwell in "hiding" within the substate regardless of what stage they're in in their life cycle. In order to accelerate their life cycle, you need to raise your tank's temp to about 85 degees farenheit. Levamisole is VERY powerful and you chose the correct mdeication! And no Levamisole is typically NOT harmful to anything but the worms. After the medical treatment/Lev. treatment, I recommend that you thoroughly vacuum your substrate.
 

Jocelyn Adelman

Fishlore VIP
Messages
4,930
Reaction score
2,992
Points
308
Experience
2 years
I’ve used levamisole with no harm to shrimp or other inverts. Fry were fine as well (plants were too). Only thing I noticed was my nerites slowed down a bit on day 2.
Be sure you are doing frequent gravel vacs while treating, as well as treat 3x, 2 weeks apart, both tanks.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #4

Jellibeen

Well Known Member
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
953
Points
128
Experience
5 to 10 years
Huh, i wonder where i got the idea that it would harm shrimp from. Maybe in my hectic research after i realized something was wrong, i confused one medication with another. It's great to hear that it won't hurt my shrimp! That makes this situation much easier. I have been following inkmkr's directions on how to use levamisole, but i've seen many places that suggest treating three times instead of two. I'd much rather treat that extra time and get rid of these little devils once and for all. I am planning on replacing the gravel in the 29 gallon after the next treatment as well. My mother is giving me gravel from her established tank so i am not losing all the bacteria.

One issue i still have is doing large water changes without harming the fry. I used a nylon stocking over the vacuum to keep the fry from getting sucked up. How can i vacuum the gravel while still protecting the fry?

Thanks so much for your help!
 

bizaliz3

Fishlore Legend
Messages
14,910
Reaction score
17,718
Points
808
Experience
5 to 10 years
Levamisole is not made for fish, its made for pigs and cattle, because of that we have to trust other hobbiest to help us get the correct dose for our fish. And some people overdose significantly. And those are the folks who probably lost shrimp or snails. Because I read that warning during my research as well.
I found extremely differing dose suggestions even using the same product. And I think the high dose is where it gets less safe.
I did not lose any shrimp, snails, or angelfish fry (newborn angelfish fry at that). Its safe to use when used in the appropriate dose.

You do have to do a lot of gravel vacs though...and I don't think putting any covering on the siphon would be a good idea when trying to catch any camallanus eggs or larvae. You will just have to try very very very hard not to suck up the fry during your vacuuming.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #6

Jellibeen

Well Known Member
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
953
Points
128
Experience
5 to 10 years
I think i should be able to do gravel vacs without hurting them since they mostly hang out near the top. I'm considering waiting until they get a little bigger, but obviously i don't want them to get infected in the meantime.

I know levamisole doesn't kill them, it just paralyzes them. Does anyone have an idea of how long they stay paralyzed for?
 

bizaliz3

Fishlore Legend
Messages
14,910
Reaction score
17,718
Points
808
Experience
5 to 10 years
Jellibeen said:
I know levamisole doesn't kill them, it just paralyzes them. Does anyone have an idea of how long they stay paralyzed for?
This is also a question I had when I went through this and I got differing answers. Some places say they are permanently paralyzed. But other say not. I just do not know the answer to that. Hopefully someone else does.
 

TexasDomer

Fishlore Legend
Messages
33,059
Reaction score
9,021
Points
608
Experience
2 years
I wouldn't raise the temp at the same time as using meds. It can stress the fish, and I haven't heard of heat speeding up camallanus worms, just ich.

Instead of the nylon stocking, you could put a mesh over the end of the siphon tube, with big enough holes to collect worms but small enough to prevent fry from going through.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #9

Jellibeen

Well Known Member
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
953
Points
128
Experience
5 to 10 years
The temp does need to be above 75 for the meds to work best, but that's only a degree above where it normally is.

I did some water changes while being very careful. I don't think i sucked up any fry. I just kept the vacuum very close to the substrate the whole time.

Another question regarding worms: i keep some emergent plants in the 29 gallon. I had some spider plants that were in the tank, then were moved out of the tank. I would like to put them back in but i need to kill any worms that may have been hanging on. Should i put them in water and treat them with meds, or do you think a dip in bleach and a good washing would work?
 

TexasDomer

Fishlore Legend
Messages
33,059
Reaction score
9,021
Points
608
Experience
2 years
If you're treating the tank anyway, then just put them back into the tank to be treated. Otherwise, you can leave them in an empty tank without fish for a few weeks, and the camallanus on them should die and not be a threat to future fish.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #11

Jellibeen

Well Known Member
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
953
Points
128
Experience
5 to 10 years
I've done one treatment on the 29 gallon, but haven't done any on the 10 because of the fry. They seem to be growing fast enough that i will feel comfortable doing the huge water changes necessary for the treatment. I'll add the emergent plants into that tank when i do the treatment.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #12

Jellibeen

Well Known Member
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
953
Points
128
Experience
5 to 10 years
Has anyone had experience with fish dying after treatment for camallanus worms? I read that if fish cannot pass all the paralyzed worms out of their system, they can get terrible secondary infections and die from that.

I ask because i am having trouble identifying the problems i am having in my 29 gallon. The apistos, one in particular, are gasping. He has a small red spot on his lip that i cannot identify. He is not scratching up against anything. The water quality is decent. Right after the first treatment on May 1st, I fed them a lot to help them get rid of the worms after i changed all the water. After that, the ammonia read .5. Nitrite read 0 and nitrates were at 5. Since then, i did large daily water changes and added some API fresh start to boost the bacteria. On May 3rd, the ammonia was in between 0 and .25. Nitrite was at 0, Nitrate at 5. As of May 4th the ammonia is at zero, nitrite 0, nitrate 5. I know apistos are delicate and that it could be poisoning from the ammonia. However, today it looks like only the one apisto is ill. The others seem to be breathing fine and are swimming around. Yesterday i treated with Melafix. I am wondering if i should treat for possible other parasites but i am concerned about over treating and making things worse.

I have added another air bubbler in to the tank. I also lowered the water by a few inches so the filter outtake is above the water line and causing surface agitation. He is not gasping at the surface so i don't think it is due to low oxygen.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #13

Jellibeen

Well Known Member
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
953
Points
128
Experience
5 to 10 years
I also have not fed them any since detecting the ammonia. Should i give them a little food before doing the water change today to see if they eat?
 

TexasDomer

Fishlore Legend
Messages
33,059
Reaction score
9,021
Points
608
Experience
2 years
Melafix is useless, I wouldn't bother with it. I wouldn't treat with anything else without having a better idea of what it could be, and I also wouldn't treat the main tank with anything else since you're already treating with Levamisole.

You can feed them. I would not withhold food - just do more water changes if you have ammonia.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #15

Jellibeen

Well Known Member
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
953
Points
128
Experience
5 to 10 years
I fed them and everyone is eating. The one who looks worst was pretty chipper when it came to bloodworms. He darted around the tank to get them. Still gasping though.
 
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #16

Jellibeen

Well Known Member
Messages
1,467
Reaction score
953
Points
128
Experience
5 to 10 years
Well... I saw what must be a thin, red worm poking out of one of the fry so it's time to treat. I feel badly that i dragged my feet about it. I dosed the aquarium today using inkmkr's guide. I'm trying to be hopeful that even one fry will survive, and even more hopeful that it won't hurt my shrimpies.

Aquarium keeping is not always fun.
 
Toggle Sidebar

Aquarium Calculator

Follow FishLore!





Top Bottom