Bubbles covering the entire surface of tank, concern?

I'm very new to the hobby, did a 3 week fishless cycle with just the plants in the tank. I have a 10G tank with 6 neon tetras at the moment. I planted 4 java ferns and have some java moss in there as well.
They have been living in it for a week and seem normal and excited anytime I come to the tank. I'm feeding once a day. I am using a sponge filter.
All seemed fine, I did add some driftwood a few days prior to the fish so the water is kind of brown from tannens even though I boiled the wood.

This weekend I decided to do a 25% water change, and also added an air stone to the sponge filter to stop the glub glub and large bubbles.

The next morning when I returned, the entire surface (yes all of it) was covered in very fine bubbles. When i opened the cover the bubbles slowly dissipate, you can hear them fizzing and popping. When the lid is off of the tank it doesn't seem to occur at all.
Once I return the cover it takes maybe about 45 minutes for the entire surface to be covered again.

I took the air stone out as the giant glub glub bubbles don't cause this (I added the stone again to make sure I wasn't losing my mind, and yes it's only the very fine air stone bubbles that do not pop on the surface when the lid is on)

Ideas? This could maybe mean i have some kind of film that the fine bubbles get stuck in, but the large break the surface tension enough to not just sit?

 

I thought foamy type bubbles that covered the surface was a protein thing ? Or a sign of something bad added such as a chemical. I’ve never heard of an air stone fully covering the surface. Is it able to be turned up or down? Or can you try another air stone ? Maybe it’s the footprint of your tank with a longer bubble surface area that causes this. Do you have a visible surface film , like oily ?

anyway this is zero help to you so hopefully someone else can chime in with an idea !

 

I thought foamy type bubbles that covered the surface was a protein thing ? Or a sign of something bad added such as a chemical. I’ve never heard of an air stone fully covering the surface. Is it able to be turned up or down? Or can you try another air stone ? Maybe it’s the footprint of your tank with a longer bubble surface area that causes this. Do you have a visible surface film , like oily ?

anyway this is zero help to you so hopefully someone else can chime in with an idea !

I also read that about the protein biofilm - I can't see any type of sheen on the surface, and then the fact they gradually all pop when I open the lid (or pop very quickly if i blow once on the surface, then it's like a chain reaction of fizzing noises as they all go away) made me wonder what it is! I did try turning the airlfow both up and down but it just changed the duration before the surface is covered lol.

I am getting another brand of airstone to try out to see if somehow that's it, long shot i know.

The only thing i added was the tetra watersafe conditioner to the pitcher of tap water to the tank, i have been trying to google if too much condtioner can cause this , but I mean i really may have only added one extra drop to the tap water, nothing crazy.

 

The conditioner in that amount shouldn’t of affected anything . Hmm, what about surface flow ? What’s your filter out let like ? I wonder if a floating plant would eradicate them.

 

I also read that about the protein biofilm - I can't see any type of sheen on the surface, and then the fact they gradually all pop when I open the lid (or pop very quickly if i blow once on the surface, then it's like a chain reaction of fizzing noises as they all go away) made me wonder what it is! I did try turning the airlfow both up and down but it just changed the duration before the surface is covered lol.

I am getting another brand of airstone to try out to see if somehow that's it, long shot i know.

The only thing i added was the tetra watersafe conditioner to the pitcher of tap water to the tank, i have been trying to google if too much condtioner can cause this , but I mean i really may have only added one extra drop to the tap water, nothing crazy.

Is has to be something causing surface tension on the water I think. Maybe something from the wood. I would change the water until it's gone. My thinking is there is no way is a good thing you know?

 

Maybe something from the wood. I would change the water until it's gone.

I was wondering if the wood somehow changed things as well. Despite boiling for what seemed an eternity, still tannins got into the water.
So it is relatively safe to change water more frequently? Maybe like 25% a day? I was worried with the 6 tetras only being there a week that it would somehow make their adjustment to the tank too volatile, but this is my first tank so I am very paranoid haha.

Hmm, what about surface flow ? What’s your filter out let like ? I wonder if a floating plant would eradicate them.

Just a sponge filter with a 2" lift tube.

 

This does sound like a bio-film issue. To check for biofilms you would need to stop the agitation for a while then look up through the tank. Unfortunately with a sponge filter you can't do that. I would be pretty certain it's protein though since it became an issue when you increased your current with the air stone/filter upgrade.

If you have a bio-film issue, you can skim it off the top by sinking a cup/plate/container just below the surface and letting it collect a bunch, then dump and repeat. Top off when you're finished.

I had pretty significant biofilms I'm a few of the tanks I set up. I'm pretty sure it's from the lack of mature biome/microfauna. Once your tank is seasoned and mature you will have a ton of various bacteria and nano critters eating up all the excess proteins. It has always gone away in time, regardless of the type of filter I run. It occasionally comes back if I have to use harsh meds in a display tank, killing off significant microfauna.

 

I was wondering if the wood somehow changed things as well. Despite boiling for what seemed an eternity, still tannins got into the water.
So it is relatively safe to change water more frequently? Maybe like 25% a day? I was worried with the 6 tetras only being there a week that it would somehow make their adjustment to the tank too volatile, but this is my first tank so I am very paranoid haha.

Just a sponge filter with a 2" lift tube.

It is absolutely safe to change water as long as you dechlorinate it.
Some very dedicated hobbyists with exspensive fish like Discus change tons of water daily. I don't do this but I sure would if I had some weird bubbles forming in my tank.
Again, my guess is the wood or plants or both decomposing causing this.
BTW, those little Neons need very clean water.

 

skim it off the top by sinking a cup/plate/container just below the surface and letting it collect a bunch, then dump and repeat. Top off when you're finished.

I will do that and see if it improves!

It is absolutely safe to change water as long as you dechlorinate it.

Thanks! There is so much info it's hard to absorb sometimes.

 

I just had this issue - it was the bubbler airstone. as soon as I replaced it, bubbles went away.

I had not realized it had been 2 months since last replaced, so it had stopped working.

I just replaced mine 12/15/21. I saved and marked the box (and perched it on my kitchen counter ledge above sink) so I can track it going forward and I added airstones to be auto shipped every 2 months at amazon as a precaution to avoid repeating it.


my symptoms: bubbles all over top of water, fish were okay, no issues
swish bubbles away but they'd return an hour later.

I have 2 Biorbs using bubblers.

 

just had this issue - it was the bubbler airstone.

The brand of airstone or just the age of yours? Mine is only a day old....

 

My tank had some bubbles on top the first few weeks after setup too, and I didn't even have an air stone bubbling. Like you I was concerned about it so I did the cup skim thing recommended by John58ford to get rid of it.

I highly doubt it is anything bad, and I would not change any more water than what I would have if it wasn't there. New tanks benefit from some time without the aquarist fiddling around with the water every day or two. I'd just do the cup skim thing and enjoy your fish!

 

My tank had some bubbles on top the first few weeks after setup too, and I didn't even have an air stone bubbling. Like you I was concerned about it so I did the cup skim thing recommended by John58ford to get rid of it.

I highly doubt it is anything bad, and I would not change any more water than what I would have if it wasn't there. New tanks benefit from some time without the aquarist fiddling around with the water every day or two. I'd just do the cup skim thing and enjoy your fish!

jm4130
What? The tank is not even cycled?
Those poor Neons don't stand a chance if that's the case.
With fish in it and if it's not cycled you will have to test for Ammonia and Nitrites to keep the Neons safe. This means water changes if it has either/or or both.
But yes, don't change water with a fishless cycle until it cycles completely, you will only slow it down.
Did you test after your 3 weeks? 3 weeks is not very long for a cycle.

 

jm4130
What? The tank is not even cycled?
Those poor Neons don't stand a chance if that's the case.
With fish in it and if it's not cycled you will have to test for Ammonia and Nitrites to keep the Neons safe. This means water changes if it has either/or or both.
But yes, don't change water with a fishless cycle until it cycles completely, you will only slow it down.
Did you test after your 3 weeks? 3 weeks is not very long for a cycle.

I said I wouldn't change any more water due to the bubbles, not that water shouldn't be changed per testing results. Since the OP said they did 3 weeks fishless cycling and now has fish in the tank I understood that to mean they are testing as normally would be done in both situations. (and changing water when necessary when fish lives are at stake) Maybe jm4130 can clarify this point.

 

What are your water parameters? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate.

 

jm4130
What? The tank is not even cycled?

I had a filter from a buddy's aquarium who actually got me interested in the hobby. I ran a fishless planted tank with his sponge filter media for 3 weeks.

What are your water parameters? Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate.

I've been testing water daily, 2x a day since i noticed the bubbles. this morning before the feeding (I did about a 30-40ish% change last night) tested with strips and was 0 / 0 /15.

Actually did the whole mechanical surface scooping that John58ford suggested every time i walked by and this morning it looks much better with a huge reduction in bubbles on the surface

 

I had a filter from a buddy's aquarium who actually got me interested in the hobby. I ran a fishless planted tank with his sponge filter media for 3 weeks.

I've been testing water daily, 2x a day since i noticed the bubbles. this morning before the feeding (I did about a 30-40ish% change last night) tested with strips and was 0 / 0 /15.

Actually did the whole mechanical surface scooping that John58ford suggested every time i walked by and this morning it looks much better with a huge reduction in bubbles on the surface

As I suspected you're doing everything right. Carry on... and welcome to the board!

I had a filter from a buddy's aquarium who actually got me interested in the hobby. I ran a fishless planted tank with his sponge filter media for 3 weeks.

I've been testing water daily, 2x a day since i noticed the bubbles. this morning before the feeding (I did about a 30-40ish% change last night) tested with strips and was 0 / 0 /15.

Actually did the whole mechanical surface scooping that John58ford suggested every time i walked by and this morning it looks much better with a huge reduction in bubbles on the surface

Did you add any ammonia source during the "fishless" 3 weeks?

 

I had a filter from a buddy's aquarium who actually got me interested in the hobby. I ran a fishless planted tank with his sponge filter media for 3 weeks.

I've been testing water daily, 2x a day since i noticed the bubbles. this morning before the feeding (I did about a 30-40ish% change last night) tested with strips and was 0 / 0 /15.

ok great, it is cycled. Change all the water you want or don't.

 

I use Biorb airstones purchased off amazon.

did you use the bubbler for the 3 week cycle?

I've had filtered and non filtered tanks. I've never had bubbles before the airstone problem.

I wish I had taken a picture, the bubbles were fairly large.

what are you using as water conditioner? any bottled beneficial bacteria?

bubbles - oxygen exchange on surface is either mechanical or chemical.

 

I said I wouldn't change any more water due to the bubbles, not that water shouldn't be changed per testing results. Since the OP said they did 3 weeks fishless cycling and now has fish in the tank I understood that to mean they are testing as normally would be done in both situations. (and changing water when necessary when fish lives are at stake) Maybe jm4130 can clarify this point.

Hmmm, I would want to get whatever is causing the bubbles out by changing water. Not to mention testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate will not show anything that has to do with bubbles. I'm thinking if there is something unknown causing those bubbles it very could be risking the fish. All we can do is guess what it is, and that means it could be bad. It sure sounds like it could be DOCs, and that's not good. Can you think of anything that causes bubbles that is good?
Better safe than sorry I'm thinking.

 

Hmmm, I would want to get whatever is causing the bubbles out by changing water. Not to mention testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate will not show anything that has to do with bubbles. I'm thinking if there is something unknown causing those bubbles it very could be risking the fish. All we can do is guess what it is, and that means it could be bad. It sure sounds like it could be DOCs, and that's not good. Can you think of anything that causes bubbles that is good?
Better safe than sorry I'm thinking.

Considering that the OP's fish are doing fine, and everyone who reported having a similar bubble issue also had no problems with their fish, I think John58ford has explained the issue well...

This does sound like a bio-film issue. To check for biofilms you would need to stop the agitation for a while then look up through the tank. Unfortunately with a sponge filter you can't do that. I would be pretty certain it's protein though since it became an issue when you increased your current with the air stone/filter upgrade.

If you have a bio-film issue, you can skim it off the top by sinking a cup/plate/container just below the surface and letting it collect a bunch, then dump and repeat. Top off when you're finished.

I had pretty significant biofilms I'm a few of the tanks I set up. I'm pretty sure it's from the lack of mature biome/microfauna. Once your tank is seasoned and mature you will have a ton of various bacteria and nano critters eating up all the excess proteins. It has always gone away in time, regardless of the type of filter I run. It occasionally comes back if I have to use harsh meds in a display tank, killing off significant microfauna.

Changing water daily when not required means adding ammonia for most of us, (chloramines) and likely also interferes with the build up of the various beneficial bacteria and nano critters John mentions. New tanks just need some time to work themselves through this period, and I believe the less we mess with them the quicker they'll get through it.

Consider too, that if the bubbler wasn't being used, the OP would never even have had any reason to think that something might be wrong. Big sign in my mind that there isn't!

 

By any chance are you using a water conditioner that contains aloe. API Stress Coat is one such conditioner. The aloe is supposed to help reduce stress by providing a coating. However, the aloe can also cause light foam in the tank.

 

Changing water daily when not required means adding ammonia for most of us, (chloramines) and likely also interferes with the build up of the various beneficial bacteria and nano critters
Consider too, that if the bubbler wasn't being used, the OP would never even have had any reason to think that something might be wrong. Big sign in my mind that there isn't!

Can you explain how changing water gives one amonia?
Also, if something doesn't happen to show a problem how does that mean it's not a problem? That sounds like closing your eyes means no problem because you can't see it, you know?
BB is in the filter and substate, not the water column. Remember the tank is cycled.

 

Can you explain how changing water gives one amonia?

I really hate to get into the type of conversation this thread has turned into, I have been leaving it be as it is likely solved. By mechanical skimming, water is being changed, and the primary offender is being removed. Both are right. Traditionally water changing where one tumbles substrate from the bottom would not be removing the floating protein, and it can disturb the newer substrate. Using a mature filter on a new tank with light stocking I'm sure op does not have an ammonia problem or that would have been mentioned in this thread.

Ammonia is added at water changes when anyone uses a water source with *chloramine*. The water conditioner separates they CHLORine, and the AMMonIa. The ammonia is then converted by the tanks nitrifying bacteria and archaean colonies while the chlorine binds to make salts or off gas. Not all water is treated with chloramine, but an increasing percentage is as it is more stable than pure chlorine.

jm4130 , I'm glad the skimming is working out for you. As things level out I'm sure it will cease, make sure you do keep up with your normal scheduled changes though, unless you are actually measuring what you skim. That would be awesome, like a manual Auto top off system .

 

Ammonia is added at water changes when anyone uses a water source with *chloramine*. The water conditioner separates they CHLORine, and the AMMonIa. The ammonia is then converted by the tanks nitrifying bacteria and archaean colonies while the chlorine binds to make salts or off gas. Not all water is treated with chloramine, but an increasing percentage is as it is more stable than pure chlorine.

Thanks, interesting.
Are there not water conditioners that take care of chloramine without leaving the ammonia behind?
Edit: I'm assuming not or it would be used. So what do you guys do when you change water? Do you check the amount of ammonia after dechlore and if it's low go with it and let the filter take care of it? Or what if it's really high?
Or maybe use lots of carbon filtration on the change water?
Only change small amounts at a time and let the BB take care of it?

 

Thanks, interesting.
Are there not water conditioners that take care of chloramine without leaving the ammonia behind?
Edit: I'm assuming not or it would be used. So what do you guys do when you change water? Do you check the amount of ammonia after dechlore and if it's low go with it and let the filter take care of it? Or what if it's really high?
Or maybe use lots of carbon filtration on the change water?
Only change small amounts at a time and let the BB take care of it?

I can't tell you my personal methods for this as it's a problem I have helped others solve, but do not have myself. If you use the search feature, search "chloramine" you can read for days about it. Using the search feature you can find some much more in depth chemistry involving the specific salts and oxidizers used in removing or "neutralizing" compounds from water. This thread is focused on foam/bubbles caused by surface agitation and how to solve them so for me to get into that would derail what we are working on here. I'm glad you're interested though, I think you will have a good read. Make sure to look into reference materials if you find any linked/listed. Water treatment plants and associated studies/literature are some of my favorites.

 

Just figured I'd follow up on my original thread - I basically have just been using a turkey baster to skim the top layer off since I posted, the problem is resolved! Prior to that I did notice that if I had the light on & i got under the aquarium at the perfect angle I did in fact see what I thought was a swirly film at the top.

All the little guys seem very happy and now I don't have to feed them through a layer of bubbles lol. Thanks for the help this is a wealth of info!