Breeding Bettas For Sorority

so I was at my lfs and met a very helpful guy... is this information true though is my question.
first of all I have 2 female bettas and am going to start an 8 betta sorority in my 20 tall. (well planted of course), also have some shrimp + snails in there
also have a male in a 5 gallon with some shrimp + a snail
I was told that my females may be egg bound. they have very large tummys and can be somewhat rude to each other with flaring and such (1 betta is in a minI 2.5g tank within the 20 gallon that I swap them in and out of) they are also around at least a year old. so I was told that apparently the only way to have a successful sorority that lasts more than a year is to have a male betta breed with them. I was wondering if I could have help on the breeding part. I will NOT be keeping babies if I do breed and I will just cull the eggs... thoughts? is this true? any advice? any links to good threads or websites? i’d also like to briefly mention that I was having nitrite issues in my 5 gallon and moved my betta to a minI tank in my 20 gallon and he got out with one of my females. didnt see any issues. here are my main questions:
how do I cull eggs?
proper way to introduce males + females?
are my females too old to breed? (I heard they might be)
is a 5 gallon alright to breed them in?
is it actually necessary to do this?
when is aggression between m + f too much and human intervention needed?
do females always have to show breeding stripes?
is tearing of fins/chasing normal and is it normal for the female to lay on the bottom after being chased?
should they both flare at each other or should only the male? I know they both do sometimes but should they always?
how long do I leave them together for? I heard a few days but I don't want to hurt them at all
how can you tell a bubble nest from just bubbles + what does it look like when they make them?
is it ok that my male is smaller than my females?
whats the best way to darken the water? (I have drift wood, almond leaves, and sphagnum moss in there)
Thank you for the advice! if you have any other sorority or betta keeping tips I welcome them with open arms!!!!

 

Sorry, but how does that make sense? You have to breed a betta to make sure they last at least a year in the sorority?

As for keeping bettas in sororities, let me bring in the betta experts - Rtessy CanadianFishFan

 

Doesn't make much sense to me either. A 20 tall is questionable in terms of swimming space. Most would recommend a 20 gallon long since acasionally one will decide to chase another clear across the tank. Even in a 4 foot tank they do this. I have had success using baby girls but have had a few turn out to be males. I feel the key to success is tank size, young betta and lots of line of sight breaks.

 

Wat??? Your females are looking fine and it's normal for them to be more rounded in the belly area because they hold eggs and can reabsorb it if they're not used. It's also normal for them to be aggressive because you only have 2 and 1 will always be dominant over the other one. The male doesn't need to breed with them for a sorority to be successful. What's the guy thinking?

 

Sorry, but how does that make sense? You have to breed a betta to make sure they last at least a year in the sorority?

As for keeping bettas in sororities, let me bring in the betta experts - Rtessy CanadianFishFan

Huh, I didn't actually get an alert for this thread.... What else am I missing?

Okay, so I get the thought process, sister bettas raised together are more likely to get along.
The females should not be put together.
They should be bred seperately and independent of one another.
Before releasing them to the male, they should have breeding stripes and bow at a 45° angle.
I can go over the whole breeding process in more detail, but quite frankly, I don't think it's in your best interest. You can't cull eggs, only fry. It costs a massive amount of money to raise even a few betta babies, just due to the amount of heat, space, time, and live food cultures you'll need (trust me, I've bred some, lol). You won't get just 8, you'll end up with 200-600 babies, hungry hungry little things that will kill one another unless you have hundreds of little jars and 40 gallons set up. The little jars all need to be heated and have daily water changes.
Also, a 5 gallon is too small to breed them in, the fry would have to stay in there for at least 2 weeks, and 300 fry won't last there very long. Again, the females should not be placed together unless they are going into the sorority, the male can only mate with one at a time and is likely to kill the other as he will see her as a threat.

 

I took it as breeding the females and getting rid of the eggs so it would be those 2 and 6 other females from the pet store. I could be wrong on my interpretation however.

 

bad picture but you can see how fat + distended she is, they only get fed 2-4 times a week and I feed them bug bites + frozen mealworms/bloodworms, ive tried everything to get rid of that belly:
ok so the guy at my lfs said that he had friends with sororities and they’d bring in a male (not literally) to breed with all the females and that was like, the only way to really have one last over 1-2 years. he seemed to know his stuff for the most part. he said it was because they get aggressive when ready to breed... does that make more sense? is there anyway I could get away with just the 2 together in my 20 gallon with like, more fish to diffuse some tension? thank you guys for the help! also the 20 gallon was originally for my hermit crabs, but I upgraded them to a 40 gallon and it is a fish tank. not initially intended for a sorority, what I'm also worried about is that my 2 females are absolutely huge and all of the female bettas I can find in stores are babies... the only ones that aren't are 15 bucks apiece and there's no way I'm buying expensive bettas for a sorority, and here is a picture of my tank as well to show you that its pretty decently planted (still need to rearrange some things)

 

better look at her size
what I find interesting is that there is no dominant betta at this point, somehow ive created some weird dynamic where they are constantly unsure of who is in charge.
my bluish red betta has always been less dominant, but after spending time swimming around my red betta in her minI tank she has become more dominant. and my previously aggressive red betta has done the opposite, becoming less dominant in the process wheras she used to chase my bluish red when I put them together. (a one time thing.) I put them together now for a little while under observation to monitor their aggression, they just flare at each other and stand their ground, and every once in a while leave each other alone. could this dynamic continue and work, with them coming in and out of the minI tank? right now they are leaving each other alone. (if I see fighting I will intervene and they will not be together when I am not there to do so)

 

there we go!

 

Yep, I'd say eggbound, but it's really not that bad. I've seen waaaay worse ones recover. You can try adding epsom salt to the water (15ml per 5 gallons) or put he male in a cup or something and show him to the female. Sometimes that's enough to get her to release the eggs.
Sorry, I'm a bit confused on the sorority idea. Are you planning on putting the two females and the male in the 20 gallon at the same time?
If so, that's a harem tank, and you'd need around 8-10 more females and a 75-125 gallon tank to make it work. Not impossible, but for a 20 gallon it is.

 

definitely not going to put male and multiple females together. didnt even know that was possible! interesting. as I said, my male did get out of his holding container he was in, and I let my other female out to see what would happen just for a moment. they left him alone and just bothered each other. I have given baths in epsom salt many times and haven't seen any results really! no clue on what to do about her, does being egg bound make them more aggressive or anything though?

 

definitely not going to put male and multiple females together. didnt even know that was possible! interesting. as I said, my male did get out of his holding container he was in, and I let my other female out to see what would happen just for a moment. they left him alone and just bothered each other. I have given baths in epsom salt many times and haven't seen any results really! no clue on what to do about her, does being egg bound make them more aggressive or anything though?

Instead of an epsom salt bath, try adding it to the main tank, 1tbsp per 5 gallons. Haha, so my betta breeding experience is a bit different (betta imbellis), but for betta splendens I know you should only put the male and one female together to breed. I assumed it was because the male would be aggressive, but I guess it could also be because the females would compete, how interesting.

 

The best way to make a sorority tank that I have found, is to actually buy the baby girls. I have 5 in a well planted 30long with guppies and mystery snails. All my girls do really well no fin nipping, there is some flares but that is it. I really wouldn't suggest using a tall tank at all. Plz do remember that your sorority can flip at any time. I was really confused on your rotation of fish in the tank. It is suggested to add them all at once. I hope your sorority works out.

 

I would keep all your bettas separate. If your females actively flare at each other then they will not get along together. Very rarely do I see my girls flaring. Sometimes they chase and nip but never flare.

The red female may indeed be egg bound but I wouldn’t say it’s because the 2 females were being aggressive to each other. You said your male was/is in a basket sort of thing in the female’s tank? Being shown a male betta will trigger the female to go into breeding mode, ready to lay eggs. If she can’t get to the male and doesn't lay eggs then she can become egg bound.


I’ve cured egg bound cichlids but not a betta. I suppose you could try putting the male and female together but your male looks much smaller than the females and I’d bet one or the other will get injured. Bettas are aggressive, they really aren’t ment to be kept with other bettas. All my females in the sorority are related, be they siblings, daughters or aunts.

 

he was previously in a container, but the female looked this way before I had him. ok let me explain the tank rotation though: so I have 2 female bettas, one in a 2.5 and the other in my 20. the weather is getting colder, so I decided to put the 2.5 within the 20 that way the betta stays warm seeing as one as a heater and the other doesn't. so I rotate the 2 females between the 2.5 and 20 gallon that way they can both have some more space and such. the male is completely separate in a 5 gallon with a filter + heater. I did try putting one female at a time in with the male but he decided to tear both them up a bit. I intervened because I was not sure if that was too aggressive or not. he did make a bubble nest though and is still making them. my females never used to flare at each other but everyone flares at each other now because that's the only way they can scream at each other through the plastic lol. they don't flare all the time though, and the females never get violent with each other. they just swim tail to face and my bluish red started flaring. what's really interesting is that they never used to do this until I did the whole minI tank thing. the bluish red one used to even get chased and would run for her life from the red one. now they don't chase at all or nip, just flare and follow. somehow I made her dominant by putting her I'm the 20 gallon and the red one in the minI tank. interesting, huh? also I do plan on rearranging the whole tank before I get the rest of my girls just so no one thinks its her territory...
EDIT: is it safe to throw epsom salt directly into the aquarium? I also have some cherry shrimp, ghosts + orange sun kissed as well as nerites and a mystery snail