Brand new - Is my cycle stalled (or has it even started)?

Hi, I'm brand new to caring for a fish and am cycling a tank for the first time. It's been 13 days and I don't know if I'm being impatient or if I should be doing something different. I've checked many different forums and haven't found an answer for my particular circumstance.
First things first. My setup:

• I have a Marineland 5 gallon "portrait" glass aquarium.
• I am using the filter pump that came with the tank. However, I removed what I think is the small chemical(?) filter cartridge and equally small sponge filter with approximately 4 times the volume of sponge filter.
• I have a heater (more on that in a moment).
• I have 1.5 inches of black gravel substrate.
• I have decorations but no live plants or other biologicals.
• The tank will be used solely for a one male betta (my first attempt at "fish keeping".

Now information about cycling. I am using a step-by-step approach for beginners I found on the internet. I believe I understand it and it makes sense. My issue is that I don't know if my cycling is progressing properly. My concern is knowing what level each of the water parameters should be. Here is how I am conducting the test:

• I am doing a fishless cycle.
• I have added my substrate, decorations and conditioned the water (Tetra AquaSafe Plus"} according to the instructions on the bottle.
• I am running the tank at 83 degrees.
• I have the filter outflow positioned so it is making bubbles and oxygenating the water.
• The tank is not in direct sunlight.

OK, now to the testing the water - the part I THINK I understand how the process works but not the results so far. I'm using an API test kit for all testing. First, my starting point:

• Beginning tap water parameters straight from the tap:
  • Ammonia .5 (I added a small amount of Dr.Tim’s Ammonium Chlorite with a goal of 2ppm).
  • PH was 7.6
  • NitrIte 0.0
  • NitrAte 0.0
  • KH 6.0
  • GH 15.0
• After FIRST test (day 1):
  • Ammonia .5
  • PH 7.6/8.0
  • NitrAte 0.0
  • NitrIte 0.0
  • KH 6.0
  • GH 14.0
• After MOST RECENT test (day 13)
  • Ammonia 2.0
  • PH 7.6/8.2
  • NitrAte 3.5
  • NitrIte .25
  • KH 18.0
  • GH 16.0

Any thoughts/comments? Does this make sense (I have no clue). All advice appreciated. I apologize for writing a novel but I wanted to try to include all the pertinent information. Thanks! I've also attached a photo of what the aquarium looks like.

 

Welcome to Fishlore

I need a bit of clarification. You said your tap water has .5ppm ammonia coming from the tap. You then added enough ammonia to get it up to 2ppm. Did you run the ammonia test to confirm it was actually up to 2ppm.
The main reason I ask is because you said:
After FIRST test (day 1):

• Ammonia .5

It is unusual for the ammonia to go down to .5 from 2ppm the day after setting the tank up. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding. Have you added any more ammonia since the first time you added it? At 13 days you are still fairly early in the cycle so already seeing both nitrites and nitrates is telling us this cycle is moving fairly fast. Did you add any kind of bottled bacteria or possibly some seeded media from a cycled tank?

Seeing your KH go up from 6 to 18 is kinda confusing too. What are your decorations made of? Could it possibly be some kind of coral. I both use and recommend adding crushed coral to help stabilize the pH. What it actually does is raise the GH and by doing so it helps raise and stabilize the pH.

 

Sorry, but I need to clarify/correct 2 things:
1) The filter - I replaced the 2 filters that came with the kit with sponge foam that is roughly 2 times the volume of the old filters combined.
2) Day 13 KH should be 8.0, not 18.0.
Thanks

 

It can take 6 to 8 weeks to cycle.

 

Welcome to Fishlore

I need a bit of clarification. You said your tap water has .5ppm ammonia coming from the tap. You then added enough ammonia to get it up to 2ppm. Did you run the ammonia test to confirm it was actually up to 2ppm.
The main reason I ask is because you said:
After FIRST test (day 1):

• Ammonia .5

It is unusual for the ammonia to go down to .5 from 2ppm the day after setting the tank up. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding. Have you added any more ammonia since the first time you added it? At 13 days you are still fairly early in the cycle so already seeing both nitrites and nitrates is telling us this cycle is moving fairly fast. Did you add any kind of bottled bacteria or possibly some seeded media from a cycled tank?

Seeing your KH go up from 6 to 18 is kinda confusing too. What are your decorations made of? Could it possibly be some kind of coral. I both use and recommend adding crushed coral to help stabilize the pH. What it actually does is raise the KH and by doing so it helps raise and stabilize the pH.

Thanks. Sorry for the confusion. The ammonia was .5 from the tap, then I added Dr. Tim's. When I tested the first day it was 1ppm but the 2nd day it was 2ppm and has remained there since.

As for the KH the "18" is a typo. It should be 8. (I posted a correction but after you replied).

It can take 6 to 8 weeks to cycle.

Thanks, Donthemon. Yes, I understand it takes that long but I was wondering if I am just being impatient or if anybody can tell by my test numbers whether or not it is progressing.

 

Thanks. Sorry for the confusion. The ammonia was .5 from the tap, then I added Dr. Tim's. When I tested the first day it was 1ppm but the 2nd day it was 2ppm and has remained there since.

As for the KH the "18" is a typo. It should be 8. (I posted a correction but after you replied).

Thanks for the clarifications. It looks like things are moving along just as they should. It often takes 2 weeks or so for the ammonia to start going down. It is unusual to be seeing nitrites and nitrates this early but still isn't anything to get alarmed about. The color charts are often difficult if not impossible to determine the exact number. Your ammonia could have been higher than 2ppm and could explain why it seems to be the same but has possibly gone down enough to produce some ni and na.

Right now it is just a matter of waiting to use up a boat load of patience.

 

Welcome to Fishlore

I need a bit of clarification. You said your tap water has .5ppm ammonia coming from the tap. You then added enough ammonia to get it up to 2ppm. Did you run the ammonia test to confirm it was actually up to 2ppm.
The main reason I ask is because you said:
After FIRST test (day 1):

• Ammonia .5

It is unusual for the ammonia to go down to .5 from 2ppm the day after setting the tank up. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding. Have you added any more ammonia since the first time you added it? At 13 days you are still fairly early in the cycle so already seeing both nitrites and nitrates is telling us this cycle is moving fairly fast. Did you add any kind of bottled bacteria or possibly some seeded media from a cycled tank?

Seeing your KH go up from 6 to 18 is kinda confusing too. What are your decorations made of? Could it possibly be some kind of coral. I both use and recommend adding crushed coral to help stabilize the pH. What it actually does is raise the KH and by doing so it helps raise and stabilize the pH.

Just to respond more fully - .5 ammonia from tap, 1.0 after first day, 2.0 after 2nd day. I only added ammonia once - that was after testing tap water. The part of your response, mattgirl, that helps me the most I think is when you said "At 13 days you are still fairly early in the cycle so already seeing both nitrites and nitrates is telling us this cycle is moving fairly fast" That's EXACTLY what I needed to know - straight forward and easy to understand.

I haven't added any bottled bacteria or seeded media because I wanted to keep it keep cycling as simple as possible. Besides, based on your response, I may not need to add either at this time.

P.S. - Sorry about the typo on the KH (should have be 8). I'm hoping that level is OK for now and not worrying too much about it yet. But doesn't a higher KH increase the PH? Ideally (based on what I have read online) I would like to get PH down to as neutral (6.8 - 7.5) as possible for my soon to be adopted betta. Can I do that towards the end/after the cycle when things are more stable? I forgot, I do have a small (3") piece of cholla wood in the tank plus I also have Indian Almond Leaves (I haven't used any yet) that may be appropriate to add at some time - I just don't yet when that would be.

Again, Thank You so very much. You have been very helpful and I expect I will have more "newbie" questions over the next few weeks. I will try to be patient but I'm pretty excited about getting "Bubba" as soon as his tank is ready.

 

First, I wouldn't be trying to change the pH. It is best to work with the pH coming straight from our tap. A stable number is much better than a specific number. "Bubba" will do fine in your water. Quite often when we read certain fish need a specific number it is based on the water their wild counterparts came from. The Bettas we have today are a long way away from their wild cousins.

Personally I've never used any kind of bottled bacteria. Quite often folks add it and their tank completes its cycle in 6 weeks and others don't add it and their tank completes its cycle in 6 weeks. Seeing your numbers this early in the cycle tells me you don't need it. Plan on it taking at the very least 4 weeks but don't get concerned if it takes longer.

If you have questions I will do my best to answer them. If I don't know the answer I will give a shout out to someone that does.

 

First, I wouldn't be trying to change the pH. It is best to work with the pH coming straight from our tap. A stable number is much better than a specific number. "Bubba" will do fine in your water. Quite often when we read certain fish need a specific number it is based on the water their wild counterparts came from. The Bettas we have today are a long way away from their wild cousins.

Personally I've never used any kind of bottled bacteria. Quite often folks add it and their tank completes its cycle in 6 weeks and others don't add it and their tank completes its cycle in 6 weeks. Seeing your numbers this early in the cycle tells me you don't need it. Plan on it taking at the very least 4 weeks but don't get concerned if it takes longer.

If you have questions I will do my best to answer them. If I don't know the answer I will give a shout out to someone that does.

Thanks again for your help. What you say certainly makes sense. I will gladly leave the pH alone. When we try to "fix" something that isn't necessarily broken (like pH) we are essentially looking for a solution to a problem that may not exist.

I have done a lot of research and as far as bottled bacteria I see some prefer to use it and others don't - but as you pointed out they may have identical results. With me being so new it just adds an extra variable that would only create more complexity.

I'm sure I can be patient, especially when I'm getting good feedback like yours that helps me understand, and hopefully continue to enjoy the process.

 

Sorry, mattgirl, it's me again It looks like there may have been some progress since yesterday. I don't know if it's your excellent advice, the cycle doing what it's supposed to be doing or me having no clue.

Caveat: The conclusions I have made may be due to how well I match the color chart (which we know can be dubious) but this is what I am seeing. While pH remains the same ammonia APPEARS to have dropped from 2.0 to 1.5, nitrAte has gone from .25 to .3, nitrIte from 3.5 to 4 and even even KH has dropped from from 8 to 7 and GH from 16 to 15 (though I did nothing that should affect them).

Here's my key question for today: What I am reading online suggests that when ammonia goes below 2.0, I should add just enough ammonia to bring it back to 2.0 (it seems that is the case throughout the rest of the cycle?). Or, should I give it a day to see if it is still at 1.5 (in case I misread it today).? BTW, I am much more comfortable with your opinion than what I read online. (After all, based on your profile, you ARE the "Cycle Guru".

As I mentioned, I realize reading the color charts is in the eye of the beholder but I'm trying hard to be sure to NOT see them as going in the direction I think they should be. I have started calling the color strips "50 Shades of API"

Bottom line: Unlike yesterday when I had no clue, today I see the results as slow progress (either that or I'm delusional). So, what is your take? It helps either way whether you agree with my assessment or if you explain to me that I am misinterpreting and why I'm looking forward to what you have to say. Once again, thanks so much. You have really lowered my stress level.

 

It does sound to me like the bacteria is getting busy doing what it is supposed to do. Don't add any more ammonia until it drops down close to 0

I know some folks recommend keeping the ammonia up to a certain level but in my humble opinion doing so overwhelms the nitrite eating bacteria. Allowing the ammonia to go down close to 0 gives the nitrite eating bacteria a bit of time to catch up before bunches more is produced.

Cycling a tank is a balancing act. Too much of one thing and not enough of another can throw things out of balance and we run into problems.

 

It does sound to me like there was some bacteria lurking in this tank and it is now getting busy doing what it is supposed to do. Don't add any more ammonia until it drops down close to 0 but continue adding a tiny pinch of fish food daily.

I know some folks recommend keeping the ammonia up to a certain level but in my humble opinion doing so overwhelms the nitrite eating bacteria. Allowing the ammonia to go down close to 0 gives the nitrite eating bacteria a bit of time to catch up before bunches more is produced.

Cycling a tank is a balancing act. Too much of one thing and not enough of another can throw things out of balance and we run into problems.

i like your approach. "Less is more" (and your explanations) makes sense to me. I would rather be cautious in adding ammonia as opposed to having too much which brings a different set of issues. I prefer to err on the side of caution (doing things incrementally and adding one variable at a time) so what you are saying makes me feel more comfortable. And I just added a pinch of fish food and will do so daily. By a "pinch" I mean 2 or 3 pellets which is, I believe, I what I should/will be feeding my Bubba twice a day.

In regards to your earlier comment " Your ammonia could have been higher than 2ppm and could explain why it seems to be the same but has possibly gone down enough to produce some ni and na." I reviewed the findings I recorded as I was transposing the numbers from paper to a spreadsheet and it looks like ammonia was 4.0 on day 2 but I entered it on the spreadsheet as 2.0. It then dropped from 4.0 to 2.0 on day 3. This seems to be more in line with what you said.

Thanks! (balancing act: ⚖️)

 

i like your approach. "Less is more" (and your explanations) makes sense to me. I would rather be cautious in adding ammonia as opposed to having too much which brings a different set of issues. I prefer to err on the side of caution (doing things incrementally and adding one variable at a time) so what you are saying makes me feel more comfortable. And I just added a pinch of fish food and will do so daily. By a "pinch" I mean 2 or 3 pellets which is, I believe, I what I should/will be feeding my Bubba twice a day.

In regards to your earlier comment " Your ammonia could have been higher than 2ppm and could explain why it seems to be the same but has possibly gone down enough to produce some ni and na." I reviewed the findings I recorded as I was transposing the numbers from paper to a spreadsheet and it looks like ammonia was 4.0 on day 2 but I entered it on the spreadsheet as 2.0. It then dropped from 4.0 to 2.0 on day 3. This seems to be more in line with what you said.

Thanks! (balancing act: ⚖)

When it comes to adding fish food I would prefer it be flakes but if pellets are what you have try to crush them to almost a powder before putting them in there. Pellets tend to fungus over fairly fast. They may still work but I don't think they will work as well as finely crushed flakes. Adding about what you will be feeding Bubba daily should work well.

The amount of ammonia being higher than we originally thought does explain where the nitrites and nitrates came from. Good catch.

 

i like your approach. "Less is more" (and your explanations) makes sense to me. I would rather be cautious in adding ammonia as opposed to having too much which brings a different set of issues. I prefer to err on the side of caution (doing things incrementally and adding one variable at a time) so what you are saying makes me feel more comfortable. And I just added a pinch of fish food and will do so daily. By a "pinch" I mean 2 or 3 pellets which is, I believe, I what I should/will be feeding my Bubba twice a day.

In regards to your earlier comment " Your ammonia could have been higher than 2ppm and could explain why it seems to be the same but has possibly gone down enough to produce some ni and na." I reviewed the findings I recorded as I was transposing the numbers from paper to a spreadsheet and it looks like ammonia was 4.0 on day 2 but I entered it on the spreadsheet as 2.0. It then dropped from 4.0 to 2.0 on day 3. This seems to be more in line with what you said.

Thanks! (balancing act: ⚖)

Crushing it is, that's not a problem. I had purposely purchased floating pellets since bettas are supposed to be top feeders.

As far as the ammonia I give you credit for finding that. Based on what you had said encouraged me to go back and review my numbers and that's why I caught the error.

 

Quick question (I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on the inter-web):
What is an an acceptable range for nitrite (spike?) to increase? Also nitrate? as I cycle.

I see the API color guide goes to 5.0ppm for nitrite and 160ppm for nitrate but I have no idea what is reasonable to watch for.

Thanks! (and Bubba thanks you in advance - I want to do this as well as I can and make as stress-free a transition for Bubba as much as possible once I get him. (Which reminds me of another question but I will save that for another time and another thread).

 

Quick question (I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on the inter-web):
What is an an acceptable range for nitrite (spike?) to increase? Also nitrate? as I cycle.

I see the API color guide goes to 5.0ppm for nitrite and 160ppm for nitrate but I have no idea what is reasonable to watch for.

Thanks! (and Bubba thanks you in advance - I want to do this as well as I can and make as stress-free a transition for Bubba as much as possible once I get him. (Which reminds me of another question but I will save that for another time and another thread).

I am not sure there is a specific number. I do recommend keeping both down to readable levels though. If either peg out the chart I recommend getting them down with a water change. When fishless cycling the high number isn't a problem.

When fish in cycling we want to keep both ammonia and nitrites as low as possible. Zero is best but often impossible to accomplish. Some folks think if we keep both down close to zero we will starve our bacteria but that isn't happening. The fish are constantly adding ammonia so there is always some in there. We are just keeping it so low our test can't detect it. When fish in cycling the health of the fish has to be our first priority. The cycle is secondary.

Some folks frown on water changes while fishless cycling a tank. I don't. As long as we temp match and add our water conditioner to the fresh water before pouring it in there water changes are not going to affect the cycling process. Very little of the bacteria we are growing is free floating in the water so changing it out isn't removing much if any of it. It is removing ammonia but we can add more of that.

 

Thank you!

 

A quick thanks to all of you have been so helpful. I'm practicing patience and my cycle seems to be going in the right direction slowly but steadily. PH, KH and GH remain stable and I'm not too concerned about them. Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrates seem to be moving in the right direction. So far I'm just testing although ammonia levels are getting low enough I may have to add just a little. Since this is my first cycling adventure (well except for when I won the Tour de France - jk, jk, bad joke) I am trying not to overact.

I'm on day 17 and suspect to continue for probably a period of 2 weeks minimum to another 4 (or more) weeks to finish. I plan to post numbers for my readings after day 21 and am looking forward to feedback at that time.

Thanks you, thank you, thank you!

 

I don't think I'm supposed to clean my sponge filters during fishless cycling but what about the hose from my filter pump to the outlet? It's looking pretty gunky but it doesn't seem enough to noticibly inhibit the amount of water coming out. Is this gunk like good bacteria? Should I wait to clean it (I'm on day 18 of cycling and things are moving slowly but appear to be going in the right direction)?

In a related question, at some time I know I will need to clean the dang thing. I've seen videos showing different ways to do this but all seem messy and time consuming. On the other hand I can purchase 10 feet of 1/2" ID tubing for about $10 and wonder if simply replacing the tube every 2 or 3 months might be a good alternative (time is money) and would certainly be a more thorough "cleaning". Ten feet would give me enough for probably 8-10 replacements so I figure this would cost me maybe roughly $5 dollars a year (plus or minus) which is way less than my personal labor costs. Or, does cleaning leave behind "good" bacteria or some other kind of residue I need?

Thanks!

 

I don't think I'm supposed to clean my sponge filters during fishless cycling but what about the hose from my filter pump to the outlet? It's looking pretty gunky but it doesn't seem enough to noticibly inhibit the amount of water coming out. Is this gunk like good bacteria? Should I wait to clean it (I'm on day 18 of cycling and things are moving slowly but appear to be going in the right direction)?

In a related question, at some time I know I will need to clean the dang thing. I've seen videos showing different ways to do this but all seem messy and time consuming. On the other hand I can purchase 10 feet of 1/2" ID tubing for about $10 and think simply replacing the tube every 2 or 3 months might be a good alternative (time is money). Ten feet would give me enough for probably 9 replacements so I figure this would cost me maybe $3 to $5 dollars a year which is way less than my personal labor costs. Or, does cleaning leave behind "good" bacteria or some other kind of residue I need?

Thanks!

You don't want to clean/replace anything until this cycle is firmly established. The gunk isn't actually bacteria but there is bacteria on it so don't disturb it. Replacing the tubing every few months is an option. The gunk is an eye sore but is just part of this hobby.

 

You don't want to clean/replace anything until this cycle is firmly established. The gunk isn't actually bacteria but there is bacteria on it so don't disturb it. Replacing the tubing every few months is an option. The gunk is an eye sore but is just part of this hobby.

Thanks again. As I have mentioned before I like your suggestions, essentially "Slow down, don't do crazy stuff, keep it simple". While it appears to me that things are moving in the right direction I'm uncertain but I'm going to wait until day 21 to share my levels (and try not to panic in the meantime (lol))

 

I’ve made it to day 21 of fishless cycling. How am I doing? PH, KH and GH remain relativity constant which I think is probably a good thing. There has been some movement in Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate although it seems minimal. I would like to believe It APPEARS that cycling is progressing normally but very slowly (or is this just wistful thinking on my part)? Will continued patience pay off or do I need to do something different? Is it time to add more ammonia? Recap of info mentioined prior in this thread: Fishless cycling, 5 gallon tank, no added biological except a small 3" long piece of cholla wood, will be stocked with a single male betta, sponge filtration, running attemperature 83 degrees, pump turned all the way up and aimed at top of water for oxygenation.

• PH
  • Day 1 = 7.6/8.0
  • Day 14 = 7.5/8.2
  • Day 21 = 7.5/8.2
• Ammonia
  • Day 1 = .5ppm (Was 4ppm on Day 2 after adding Dr. Tim’s Ammonium Chloride on day 1)
  • Day 14 = 1.5ppm
  • Day 21 = .5ppm
• Nitrite
  • Day 1 = 0.0ppm
  • Day 14 = .25ppm
  • Day 21 = 5.0ppm (Which is a high as the API test kit chart goes)
• Nitrate
  • Day 1 = 0.0ppm
  • Day 14 = 4.0ppm
  • Day 21 = 7.5ppm
• KH
  • Day 1 = 6.0
  • Day 14 = 7.0
  • Day 21 = 8.0
• GH
  • Day 1 = 14.0
  • Day 14 = 15.0
  • Day 21 = 16.0
• Tetra BettaMin Small Pellets
  • Beginning Day 14 through Day 21I have been adding 3 finely crushed pellets

Disclaimer: When checking the API test results, I have had to consciously keep myself from fudging reading the color I WANT it to be rather than what it actually is (but so far, I’ve been pretty successful at resisting). Bet I’m not the first to do that. lol

 

The cycle is moving forward just as it should. At this point I would change out half the water if you've not done any water changes in the past couple of weeks. Be sure you temp match and add your water conditioner to the fresh water before pouring it in there. Once done get your ammonia back up to 1ppm.

 

The cycle is moving forward just as it should. At this point I would change out half the water if you've not done any water changes in the past couple of weeks. Be sure you temp match and add your water conditioner to the fresh water before pouring it in there. Once done get your ammonia back up to 1ppm.

I'm glad to hear the cycle is moving forward as it should since I really had no clue. I have not done a water change so as soon as I'm done with this response, I will prepare a bucket of tap water, add water conditioner, bring it up to temperature and let it sit for 24 hours. This time tomorrow I will do a 50% water change, refill with the water I had prepared and start to add ammonia slowly (I don't want to take the chance of it going beyond 1ppm because that will probably bring a different set of issues).

Thank you for taking the time and having the patience to walk me through this!

 

Is there a specific reason for letting your water sit for 24 hours? As long as you add your water conditioner there is no need to also let it age. Water conditioners work almost instantly. It is good that they do because when I do my water changes I refill it a 4 gallon bucket at a time. I have to fill that 4 gallon bucket 6 times when I do a water change on my 55 gallon tank. By the time the bucket is filled with temp matched conditioned water it is ready for the tank as soon as it is filled up.

 

Is there a specific reason for letting your water sit for 24 hours? As long as you add your water conditioner there is no need to also let it age. Water conditioners work almost instantly. It is good that they do because when I do my water changes I refill it a 4 gallon bucket at a time. I have to fill that 4 gallon bucket 6 times when I do a water change on my 55 gallon tank. By the time the bucket is filled with temp matched conditioned water it is ready for the tank as soon as it is filled up.

I thought I read somewhere to let it sit for 24 hours (it probably meant if no conditioner was added). So, I've got my conditioned water in a bucket and as soon as the temp matches I will do the change. Thanks.

 

I thought I read somewhere to let it sit for 24 hours (it probably meant if no conditioner was add). So, I've got my conditioned water in a bucket and as soon as the temp matches I will do the change. Thanks.

Many years ago folks would let their water age to allow the chlorine gas off. We no longer have to do that since water conditioners are so easy to come by. Some water companies now use chloramines instead of chlorine. The chloramines don't gas off so a water conditioner has to be used. I temp match the easy way. I temp match straight out of the faucet. Some folks fear using water from their water heater but I have always done so and have never had issues.

Since this is a fishless cycle a close temp is good enough.

 

Many years ago folks would let their water age to allow the chlorine gas off. We no longer have to do that since water conditioners are so easy to come by. Some water companies now use chloramines instead of chlorine. The chloramines don't gas off so a water conditioner has to be used. I temp match the easy way. I temp match straight out of the faucet. Some folks fear using water from their water heater but I have always done so and have never had issues.

Since this is a fishless cycle a close temp is good enough.

That's interesting. At least I got water conditioner for chloramines as well as chlorine. I wondered about temp matching the water since I have no fish but then thought I'm using a fairly high temp (83 degrees) to help the bacteria so I thought I might as well keep them happy with adding 83 degree treated water (once again I have no idea if this makes any sense or helps in any way except by doing this it just adds one less variable (different water temps) which increases my comfort level.

 

That's interesting. At least I got water conditioner for chloramines as well as chlorine. I wondered about temp matching the water since I have no fish but then thought I'm using a fairly high temp (83 degrees) to help the bacteria so I thought I might as well keep them happy with adding 83 degree treated water (once again I have no idea if this makes any sense or helps in any way except by doing this it just adds one less variable (different water temps) which increases my comfort level.

I always advise temp matching (at least close) even with no fish in the tank. I am not sure it matters a great deal but I look at bacteria as a living thing so err on the side of caution.

 

I always advise temp matching (at least close) even with no fish in the tank. I am not sure it matters a great deal but I look at bacteria as a living thing so err on the side of caution.

I’ve done the 50% water change and added ammonia, so it is now 1.00ppm (just what we want it to be).

Ammonia is now 1.0ppm (from .25ppm before water change and adding ammonia).

Nitrite has dropped significantly from 5.0ppm to .25ppm. I’m guessing that is from the water change as well as adding conditioner.

Nitrate has not changed; it is still at 7.5ppm.

PH (7.5/8.2), KH (8.0) and GH (17.0) remain stable and I’m still adding 3 crushed pellets of fish food daily.

Is this what should be expected? If so, what should I look for or do next? Are we getting close to the part where Ammonia and Nitrite should start to drop to zero and the Nitrite begin to rise significantly? Note: I'm still remaining relatively calm and patient.

 

I’ve done the 50% water change and added ammonia, so it is now 1.00ppm (just what we want it to be).

Ammonia is now 1.0ppm (from .25ppm before water change and adding ammonia).

Nitrite has dropped significantly from 5.0ppm to .25ppm. I’m guessing that is from the water change as well as adding conditioner.

Nitrate has not changed; it is still at 7.5ppm.

PH (7.5/8.2), KH (8.0) and GH (17.0) remain stable and I’m still adding 3 crushed pellets of fish food daily.

Is this what should be expected? If so, what should I look for or do next? Are we getting close to the part where Ammonia and Nitrite should start to drop to zero and the Nitrite begin to rise significantly? Note: I'm still remaining relatively calm and patient.

Yes, right now it is just a waiting game. The ammonia should start going down. Once it goes down to or very close to 0 within 24 hours of adding it you will know you are getting close. You are looking to see 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites within 24 hours of adding ammonia. The nitrates will come. I wouldn't be concerned about that number at this point.

 

Yes, right now it is just a waiting game. The ammonia should start going down. Once it goes down to or very close to 0 within 24 hours of adding it you will know you are getting close. You are looking to see 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites within 24 hours of adding ammonia. The nitrates will come. I wouldn't be concerned about that number at this point.

Thank you. That was exactly what I was hoping you would say.

Two more question: I read someplace that as the ammonia gets to zero I should continue to add ammonia to get it back to 1ppm until both ammonia and nitrite drop to zero after 24 hours and I have higher nitrates. Is that true? Also, is there a level of nitrates I should be looking for? There is quite a range on the API color chart.

 

Thank you. That was exactly what I was hoping you would say.

Two more question: I read someplace that as the ammonia gets to zero I should continue to add ammonia to get it back to 1ppm until both ammonia and nitrite drop to zero after 24 hours and I have higher nitrates. Is that true? Also, is there a level of nitrates I should be looking for? There is quite a range on the API color chart.

Yes, you need to get the ammonia back up to 1 when it goes down to or very close to one. You need to keep the bacteria fed. Once the cycle is complete you will do a water change to get the nitrates down to 10 or so. Or you could get them to 0 should you choose to do so. It isn't necessary though.

 

Yes, you need to get the ammonia back up to 1 when it goes down to or very close to one. You need to keep the bacteria fed. Once the cycle is complete you will do a water change to get the nitrates down to 10 or so. Or you could get them to 0 should you choose to do so. It isn't necessary though.

Perfect!

 

Yes, you need to get the ammonia back up to 1 when it goes down to or very close to one. You need to keep the bacteria fed. Once the cycle is complete you will do a water change to get the nitrates down to 10 or so. Or you could get them to 0 should you choose to do so. It isn't necessary though.

So, tomorrow I will be posting my numbers after day 28 of recycling. But I have a question related specifically to this post. When i have added ammonia to get it back to 1ppm very quickly the ammonia and nitrite drop to .25ppm (although not yet zero unless I'm reading the test wrong).

What I'm not understanding is related to nitrAtes. I thought as the ammonia rises to 1ppm and falls back to zero, or near zero (along with the nitrIte ppm) and then bring ammonia back to 1ppm the nitrAte level should rise. However, my nitrAte has been stuck a 8.0ppm doe 5 straight days. You say I should do water changes to get the nitrAtes down to 10 or even 0 but it has yet to even get above 10.

So, my question is: Will the nitrAtes rise if I remain patient or is it even possible that the nitrAtes have peaked at 8.0 which puts it in the acceptable level? I don't even know if this question makes any sense but I'm confused. Or do I just need to continue to be patient? Thanks

 

Nitrates should continue to gradually go up. The amount of nitrates we see depends on the amount of ammonia processed. I don't know why yours are holding at 8ppm. What kind of test are you using to test for them? 8 is an unusual number if you are using the API liquid test.

 

Nitrates should continue to gradually go up. The amount of nitrates we see depends on the amount of ammonia processed. I don't know why yours are holding at 8ppm. What kind of test are you using to test for them? 8 is an unusual number if you are using the API liquid test.

I think I'm testing correctly - I'm using the API liquid test. Nitrates have gradually risen from 2.5 on day 6 to 3, 4, 6, 7.5ppm for 3 days and then 8ppm for the last 5. So it has been rising but very slowly. I keep thinking that as I add ammonia (I've added it twice in the last week) it should go up but it has stayed right at 7.5/8.0ppm. I will verify tomorrow that I am testing correctly. Weird.

 

I think I'm testing correctly - I'm using the API liquid test. Nitrates have gradually risen from 2.5 on day 6 to 3, 4, 6, 7.5ppm for 3 days and then 8ppm for the last 5. So it has been rising but very slowly. I keep thinking that as I add ammonia (I've added it twice in the last week)it should go up but it has stayed right at 7.5/8.0ppm. I will verify tomorrow that I am testing correctly. Weird.

Seeing what you are seeing for nitrates is about right for the amount of ammonia this tank is processing. Are you using some kind of color matching app to fine tune these nitrate numbers? The chart that came with my kit goes, 5, 10, 20, 40, 80, 160. The exact number isn't really important. I am just curious how you are determining your readings.

 

Seeing what you are seeing for nitrates is about right for the amount of ammonia this tank is processing. Are you using some kind of color matching app to fine tune these nitrate numbers? The chart that came with my kit goes, 5, 10, 20, 40, 80, 160. The exact number isn't really important. I am just curious how you are determining your readings.

I am not using a color matching app but if you have one you can recommend I will use it.

I have a background in art so I have a lot of experience in mixing/matching color, hue, tint, shade etc. My API chart also has 5 through 160 I can see telling the difference between 10 and 20 could be difficult. However I get 8ppm because the color I get is still has a little bit of pumpkin/yellow of 5.0ppm while also having a hue similar to the more orange/red of 10ppm. I hope when it jumps it goes right to 40ppm because 10 and 20 are just so much alike.

Seeing what you are seeing for nitrates is about right for the amount of ammonia this tank is processing. Are you using some kind of color matching app to fine tune these nitrate numbers? The chart that came with my kit goes, 5, 10, 20, 40, 80, 160. The exact number isn't really important. I am just curious how you are determining your readings.

Just to give you an idea of what I am using as my background:

"Many people use terms like “hue” and “color” or “tint” and “shade” interchangeably, but the terms have distinctly different meanings. Color is a very general term used to describe every hue, tint, tone, or shade we can see. Hue refers to the dominant color family.

Hue refers to the origin of the colors we can see. Primary and Secondary colors (Yellow, Orange, Red, Violet, Blue, and Green) are considered hues; however, tertiary colors (mixed colors where neither color is dominant) would also be considered hues.

Tint refers to any hue or mixture of pure colors to which white is added. Pastel colors are generally tinted colors. Tinted color remains the same color, but it is paler than the original. When mixing a tint, always begin with white paint and gradually mix in small amounts of color until you’ve achieved the tint you want.

Tone is a hue or mixture of pure colors to which only pure gray is added (equal amounts of black and white). Adding gray to a color will make the intensity much duller. Beware of mixing too much gray into a hue as it can become over-dulled and virtually impossible to restore the brilliance.

Shade is a hue or mixture of pure colors to which only black is added. It contains no white or gray. Shade darkens the color, but the hue remains the same. When mixing a shade, begin with the color itself then add black one drop at a time."

Depending on how different each color is on the API chart is from the one before or after they are normally either a Hues or a Tint.

 

28 days, end of week 4 of cycling. pH, kH and gH remain relativity constant. Added ammonia on day 26 when it was .25, nitrite was also .25 on day 26. Nitrates continue at 8.0ppm for 5th straight day.

Ammonia and nitrite seem to be doing something (kind of what might be expected?). Nitrate seems to have a mind of its own (although it might have been 8.5 today but that also might have been wishful thinking on my part).

Are there any other variables I should consider, or should I just give it more time? In my mind everything looks pretty good except the nitrates. I believe my testing is accurate and following the instructions exactly.

• PH
  • Day 1 = 7.6/8.0
  • Day 14 = 7.5/8.2
  • Day 21 = 7.5/8.2
  • Day 28 = 7.5/8.2
• Ammonia
  • Day 1 = .5ppm (Was 4ppm on Day 2 after adding Dr. Tim’s Ammonium Chloride on day 1)
  • Day 14 = 1.5ppm
  • Day 21 = .5ppm
  • Day 28 = .75ppm (Added ammonia day 26 (was at .025) and measured 1ppm on day 27)
• Nitrite
  • Day 1 = 0.0ppm
  • Day 14 = .25ppm
  • Day 21 = 5.0ppm (dropped to .25ppm after water change on day 21)
  • Day 28 = .25ppm (Was .38 on day 27 after adding ammonia on day 26)
• Nitrate
  • Day 1 = 0.0ppm
  • Day 14 = 4.0ppm
  • Day 21 = 7.5ppm
  • Day 28 = 8.0ppm (Constant since day 21)
• KH
  • Day 1 = 6.0
  • Day 14 = 7.0
  • Day 21 = 8.0
  • Day 28 = 6.0
• GH
  • Day 1 = 14.0
  • Day 14 = 15.0
  • Day 21 = 16.0
  • Day 28 = 13.0
• Tetra BettaMin Small Pellets
  • Beginning Day 14 through 28 I have been adding 3 finely crushed pellets.

I am not using a color matching app but if you have one you can recommend I will use it.

I have a background in art so I have a lot of experience in mixing/matching color, hue, tint, shade etc. My API chart also has 5 through 160 I can see telling the difference between 10 and 20 could be difficult. However I get 8ppm because the color I get is still has a little bit of pumpkin/yellow of 5.0ppm while also having a hue similar to the more orange/red of 10ppm. I hope when it jumps it goes right to 40ppm because 10 and 20 are just so much alike.


Just to give you an idea of what I am using as my background:

"Many people use terms like “hue” and “color” or “tint” and “shade” interchangeably, but the terms have distinctly different meanings. Color is a very general term used to describe every hue, tint, tone, or shade we can see. Hue refers to the dominant color family.

Hue refers to the origin of the colors we can see. Primary and Secondary colors (Yellow, Orange, Red, Violet, Blue, and Green) are considered hues; however, tertiary colors (mixed colors where neither color is dominant) would also be considered hues.

Tint refers to any hue or mixture of pure colors to which white is added. Pastel colors are generally tinted colors. Tinted color remains the same color, but it is paler than the original. When mixing a tint, always begin with white paint and gradually mix in small amounts of color until you’ve achieved the tint you want.

Tone is a hue or mixture of pure colors to which only pure gray is added (equal amounts of black and white). Adding gray to a color will make the intensity much duller. Beware of mixing too much gray into a hue as it can become over-dulled and virtually impossible to restore the brilliance.

Shade is a hue or mixture of pure colors to which only black is added. It contains no white or gray. Shade darkens the color, but the hue remains the same. When mixing a shade, begin with the color itself then add black one drop at a time."

Depending on how different each color is on the API chart is from the one before or after they are normally either a Hues or a Tint.

View attachment 768855

Glad you liked my color chart I just posted detailed readings through Day 28 and I'm befuddled.