Bolivian Ram Temperament + Advice

Hiya folks, recently got a 200L tank and in looking for a non-angelfish centerpiece for a South-American themed aquarium I came across the Rams. Aiming to keep the tank around 24-25c which from what I gather would rule out German Blues but it looks like Bolivian Rams would be fine in this. However, when I put my stocking in Aqadvisor I get a warning that they may get too aggressive with the tetras when breeding. I have 0 experience with cichlids so I have no idea on what their temperament is like or how often they breed. My intention would be to get a bonded pair as I don't want just a single fish.
Tank conditions should be 24c, pH7 and 14dGH, my intended stocking is here:


Any advice appreciated, cheers!

 

Ok, first of all: Delete the bookmark for AqAdvisor and forget the site exists.

Then the single species:
- Petitella (former Hemigrammus, but nowerdays all are in one genus) are best kept in longer tanks. Otherwise their famous schooling behaviour desintegrates into a hectical mess and fish zipping about all over. 100cm is a good start though and the absolute minimum one can keep them in. I myself would probably go for fish that need less space.
- Hyphessobrycon - nothing to comment.
- Sturisoma - again, minimum tank length you got there.
- Mikrogeophagus - I don't see a problem here if you make sure the tank has good structure. Break lines of sight in the lowest 10-15cm above the substrate, make sure the substrate is sand, lots of driftwood and leaf litter. Mikrogeophagus don't use caves unless they're the only cover available. So no caves, just cover from above. Mikrogeophagus are usually rozgh towards each other, but leave alone all other fish.
- Otocinclus - Not before the tank is up and running for at least 6 months. These fish are feeding specialists and if added too early they eat all available biofilms and then starve to death. After six months the aufwuchs is sustainable and thick, though, that's when they can be added without the danger of starving.

Tank conditions should be 24c, pH7 and 14dGH, my intended stocking is here:

Temperature is ok (should not drop lower, or the Petitella will get into trouble), pH and hardness could be far lower. What's the KH?

 

Then the single species:
- Petitella (former Hemigrammus, but nowerdays all are in one genus) are best kept in longer tanks. Otherwise their famous schooling behaviour desintegrates into a hectical mess and fish zipping about all over. 100cm is a good start though and the absolute minimum one can keep them in. I myself would probably go for fish that need less space.

At risk of going a lil offtopic, any suggestions for a smaller tetra? Had chosen the Rummys specifically for the shoaling behaviour so any other active shoaling species would be good.

- Mikrogeophagus - I don't see a problem here if you make sure the tank has good structure. Break lines of sight in the lowest 10-15cm above the substrate, make sure the substrate is sand, lots of driftwood and leaf litter. Mikrogeophagus don't use caves unless they're the only cover available. So no caves, just cover from above. Mikrogeophagus are usually rozgh towards each other, but leave alone all other fish.

I'll keep that in mind when building the tank and its good to know they should leave the other fish alone!

Temperature is ok (should not drop lower, or the Petitella will get into trouble), pH and hardness could be far lower. What's the KH?

5dKH, this is my water straight from the tap so I imagine after I'm done filling the tank to the brim with plants and driftwood it should be a little softer. Another tank I have atm that the Black Phantoms are in is at 4KH, 8dGH and 6.5pH so I'm hoping thats where it'll end up around

 

At risk of going a lil offtopic, any suggestions for a smaller tetra? Had chosen the Rummys specifically for the shoaling behaviour so any other active shoaling species would be good.

I don't think that's off-topic. But I think you confuse shoaling and schooling. Petitella are famous for schooling (all swimming in a coordinated manner together), which they only show under stress if kept in smaller numbers and short tanks. They mostly show it in big numbers (40-50 individuals) in long (150cm+) tanks.
All other tetras are shoaling, meaning they stay in the same general area, not coordinated or facing the same direction and will only school in stressful or when facing perceived dangerous situations.
You have the full choice of any Nannostomus, Axelrodia, Paracheirodon, Hemigrammus, or Hyphessobrycon species in the size range between 3 and 5 cm.

Another tank I have atm that the Black Phantoms are in is at 4KH, 8dGH and 6.5pH so I'm hoping thats where it'll end up around

Those are excellent readings. Maybe a media bag with peat (not peat moss, actual peat) would be a good idea then, as will be lots of leaf litter for the big tank.

As for further ideas, I'm asking TClare to join us, she will have some ideas for you as well I guess.

 

Well, mostly I agree with all that MacZ has said and I am not sure if I can add anything useful except perhaps some more specific ideas. I haven't actually kept Bolivian rams but agree that they won't be a danger to tetras even when they breed, the tetras can get away quickly enough, however tetras are likely to eat their fry. With a pair aggression issues are possible it is important to structure the tank as MacZ already pointed out. Alternatively you could consider a single male Apistogramma.

There is a large choice of small tetras and pencilfish that would be ideal, it might depend on what you can get as well as which appeal to you most. I think any of the Nannostomus (pencilfish) would be good - For quite a while I kept N. beckfordi with neon tetras and that was a very nice combination, though many people here complain that neons are not very hardy. But if you have plenty of shade and a lot of leaf litter they look really good. I still have the pencilfish after 21/2 years, but only 4 neons are left now. I also have ruby tetras along with red pencilfish (Nannostomus mortenthaleri) in a different tank, they are both very attractive. Copella species are another possibility, mine are bigger and a little more aggressive to each other than the pencilfish, but attractive and interesting and keep mostly near the surface. I am not sure how commonly available they are though. Anyway there are a lot of very nice small tetras, and with a bit of research you might find some that occur naturally with Mikrogeophagus altispinosa, that would be interesting....

The other thing I can suggest from experience, instead of the Sturisoma, which gets rather large, you could try Rineloricaria lanceolata (whiptail catfish). I have these with the ruby tetras and red pencilfish in a 180l tank. Sometimes they are on the substrate, at others they hang off the branches. Sometimes they are on or under the leaf litter, they are well camouflaged and easy to miss until they move, but they do move about and feed quite a lot during the day, interesting fish.

 

Well, mostly I agree with all that MacZ has said and I am not sure if I can add anything useful except perhaps some more specific ideas. I haven't actually kept Bolivian rams but agree that they won't be a danger to tetras even when they breed, the tetras can get away quickly enough, however tetras are likely to eat their fry. With a pair aggression issues are possible it is important to structure the tank as MacZ already pointed out. Alternatively you could consider a single male Apistogramma.

Apistogramma look very interesting! Is there any reason to go with a single fish rather than a pair?

There is a large choice of small tetras and pencilfish that would be ideal, it might depend on what you can get as well as which appeal to you most. I think any of the Nannostomus (pencilfish) would be good

A large group of pencilfish would look lovely but they're very expensive around my local fish store, currently I'm now considering a group of 30-40 Ember Tetras in place of the Rummynoses which I gather would be just fine with either Apistogrammas or Bolivian Rams?

The other thing I can suggest from experience, instead of the Sturisoma, which gets rather large, you could try Rineloricaria lanceolata (whiptail catfish).

I'm dead set on the Sturisoma, one of my favourites after seeing some full grown ones in a display tank and I'm really happy to finally have a tank large enough to keep one

 

Is there any reason to go with a single fish rather than a pair?

Just for peace really. Apistogrammas can be very aggressive to each other, some species more than others. A male can persistently chase the female if she is not ready to breed, causing damage or at least constant stress. If they do breed the female may then chase the male away. Many (but not all) Apistogrammas breed in a harem situation rather than as a pair so those species it is better to have two or three females for each male. In your tank size I am honestly not sure how well this would work, it might be OK if the right kind of structure is provided. I believe A. borellii is one of the calmer readily available species and could be kept as a pair.

 

Is there any reason to go with a single fish rather than a pair?

Because if they start breeding or territorial fighting in a community tank every other fish will be chased into maybe 1/4 of the tank and the upper third of the water column.
If you don't want to breed, just go with a single specimen.

A large group of pencilfish would look lovely but they're very expensive around my local fish store, currently I'm now considering a group of 30-40 Ember Tetras in place of the Rummynoses which I gather would be just fine with either Apistogrammas or Bolivian Rams?

Nannostomus are usually quite cheap unless you want one of the red species that recently turned up. Also some species are rarely available but not expensive. N. marginatus or N. beckfordi should basically always be available and affordable.

But yes, any tetra will be ok with dwarf cichlids as they rarely interact directly. And the idea of some dozen ember tetras appeals.

I believe A. borellii is one of the calmer readily available species and could be kept as a pair.

Correct, if it was a species tank dedicated to them with no catfish a male and 2 females would be possible. Yet, if breeding is not the goal I'd spare the fish the stress.

 

Very true, the catfish particularly would have a hard time with breeding Apistogrammas. Even with Bolivian rams things could get complicated if or when they breed, though I believe they are not quite as aggressive as Apistogrammas. However a single male Apistogramma is attractive and no trouble in a community tank.

I agree with MacZ that though the red pencilfish are expensive (my N. mortenthaleri were $7 each and the newer varieties are even more expensive), the beckfords should be much more accesible (mine were 3 for $5), and while they are not as showy as the red ones they are still very attractive, I like them just as much.

Other small cichlids you might want to look at include Laetacara species, you could keep a pair of these, they usually get on Ok together with only minor arguments, but again they can get quite aggressive to other fish when breeding. I have two pairs of L. araguaiae in a large community tank with no real trouble, but I don’t have any catfish with them so can’t be sure how these would fare.

 

Huge thanks for the input you two, I'll likely go with the single male Apistogramma though I'll keep my eyes peeled for any of the Laetacaras