Bn Pleco Offspring

Jessielee83

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Ok so im still figuring out the bristlenose genes and i have read and searched alot and found good info for some things but not others. So as an example..... i have a male and female breeding pair of albinos. Their offspring are all albinos. So far ive only had one clutch bred and hatch and 2 weeks old now. Second batch is just starting to hatch so will have to see if all those are albinos as well. So what i get from this is both mom amd dad come from pure albino line meaning no commons in their recent lines so they hold only albino genes. So my question is.. of i have a male and female lemon blue eye pair what could i expect the babies to be? Is it the same as if they were bred straight lemons will they only hold that gene and all babies will be lemon blue eyes or is there a possible chance for other colors? Thanks so much!! Look forward to any and all inputs.
 

bizaliz3

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Ok so im still figuring out the bristlenose genes and i have read and searched alot and found good info for some things but not others. So as an example..... i have a male and female breeding pair of albinos. Their offspring are all albinos. So far ive only had one clutch bred and hatch and 2 weeks old now. Second batch is just starting to hatch so will have to see if all those are albinos as well. So what i get from this is both mom amd dad come from pure albino line meaning no commons in their recent lines so they hold only albino genes. So my question is.. of i have a male and female lemon blue eye pair what could i expect the babies to be? Is it the same as if they were bred straight lemons will they only hold that gene and all babies will be lemon blue eyes or is there a possible chance for other colors? Thanks so much!! Look forward to any and all inputs.
The lemon gene is recessive. Just like albino. So two lemons will only make lemons. They could potentially make some albinos if they each have a single recessive albino gene. But no browns.
 

Jessielee83

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Thanks so much for your response! I am in the process of reading your bn breeding diary. I think i am on page 13 lol. I got hooked with your lemon dad to brown daughter project. I notice thats a cpl yrs ago and wanted to jump right to the end so i am in current discussions but i feel like i will miss some info. So trucking right along and going to read it all.

So am i to assume right that if i do an albino with a lemon the babies would be brown? I have 2 spawns from male albino and female albino and all babies are albino. So will it depend on lemon? Like if they carry albino gene would i get albino and lemons or just brown. Im curiouse and its neat to figure ot all out lol. Thanks again

So it doesnt matter what line breeding the lemons went through? Say they have a brown parent and lemon parent. Like yours? I would still get only lemon since mom and dad are both lemons? Or would be half half.
 

Mcasella

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Thanks so much for your response! I am in the process of reading your bn breeding diary. I think i am on page 13 lol. I got hooked with your lemon dad to brown daughter project. I notice thats a cpl yrs ago and wanted to jump right to the end so i am in current discussions but i feel like i will miss some info. So trucking right along and going to read it all.

So am i to assume right that if i do an albino with a lemon the babies would be brown? I have 2 spawns from male albino and female albino and all babies are albino. So will it depend on lemon? Like if they carry albino gene would i get albino and lemons or just brown. Im curiouse and its neat to figure ot all out lol. Thanks again

So it doesnt matter what line breeding the lemons went through? Say they have a brown parent and lemon parent. Like yours? I would still get only lemon since mom and dad are both lemons? Or would be half half.
The genes have to match for the offspring to be the recessive gene (in this case lemon or albino), if there is not a matching recessive gene it will not be.
You would get albinos and browns as the albinos do not carry a lemon gene (that you know of, but most are not breeding albino to lemon because it adds more time for a lemon offspring happening as the offspring from the albino/lemon have to mature before breeding to produce lemons or albinos). But you would only get albinos if the lemon has a recessive albino gene, in bizaliz3's example there was a recessive albino gene in the line from the brown parent so a later offspring could have an albino gene (when bred to an albino would produce a select few albinos).
 

bizaliz3

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So it doesnt matter what line breeding the lemons went through? Say they have a brown parent and lemon parent. Like yours? I would still get only lemon since mom and dad are both lemons? Or would be half half.
No, you would get only lemons from two lemons. Even if one had a brown parent.

Just a summary of my project:
Lemon to brown = 100% brown
Brown offspring from above, with recessive lemon gene, bred back to lemon dad= 50% brown 50% lemon.
Two lemons from the above spawn = 100% lemon

What was a fun surprise is what @ErinO experienced with the ones she got from me. She bred one of my lemons with an albino she already had and some of the babies were albino. She also had browns, but no lemons because her albino didn't have a recessive lemon gene. I didn't even realize/remember that some of my lemons might have an albino gene.

How this happened was: The brown female I started with at the very beginning (with no lemon genes), she had a recessive albino gene. So 50% of her brown kids with my lemon male had a recessive albino gene from her AND 100% had a recessive yellow gene from dad. So then when I bred a brown daughter back to dad to get my lemons, I must have picked one of the 50% that had an albino gene. And then half their kids also had a recessive albino gene. And half their kids are lemons.

With that being said...a brown from that spawn and a lemon from that spawn could make browns, lemons and albinos all in one spawn!! (assuming both are from the 50% that have recessive albino)

Not sure if you followed that. But basically, albino and lemon are both recessive. The fish needs to carry two genes of either to express the trait.

A lemon and an albino would make only browns unless either of them has a recessive gene that matches the other.

lemon and brown will make only brown unless the brown parent has a recessive yellow gene,

albino and brown will only make brown unless the brown parent has an albino gene.

For the record, my original brown female bred with an albino male before I got my lemon. And 50% of their babies were albino. So that's how I know she had an albino gene. But it didn't even occur to me that the lemons from 2 generations later could also have picked up an albino gene from their grandmother! So when ErinO gave me the news, I thought it was pretty cool!
 

Jessielee83

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I think my brain just exploded lol. But im picking up what your putting down. Right now i have a breeding pair of albinos and i removed dad cause he was on eggs and now they are wigglers. But that is second batch in 3 weeks. So im thinking of keeping him away from mom for a bit and i just added my male female lemons in with mom albino. She is already heavy with eggs again grr so i guess its possible for them to breed but thinking i might move her as well so i can keep lines pure with the lemons. Ive read somewhere that a male will breed with more than one female at a time. Is that somthing that usually happens or its one of those may or may not happen. Thanks for both of your inputs. Also any experience with syper reds?

Also my lemon adults are standard fin but i also have 2 smaller longfin lemons. Later on if i breed them will 2 longfin produce only long fin? And is it possible for 2 standard to have longfin babies? If they have that gene. And what could percentages be if you do a longfin with a standard fine. Thanks!
 
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bizaliz3

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Also my lemon adults are standard fin but i also have 2 smaller longfin lemons. Later on if i breed them will 2 longfin produce only long fin? And is it possible for 2 standard to have longfin babies? If they have that gene. And what could percentages be if you do a longfin with a standard fine. Thanks!
Long fin is dominant. So a standard cannot have a long fin gene. So two standards cannot produce long fins

A long fin and a standard fin will make 50% long fins. OR 100% long fin if the long fin parent is a homozygous long fin.

2 long fins will make 75%-100% long fin. Again it is depending on if you have a homozygous long fin in the pair.
 

Jessielee83

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Ok what does it mean homozygous? And how do i know if i have one? Lol also have you kept records on your fry growthrates? And what is a good size to sell. I have had issues when i buy fish online where the small guys all die on me but i got th albinos as breed adult pair and they are doing great. So would it be feasable to grow them out until can sex them and that will help them survive and not so sensitive. Thoughts?
 

bizaliz3

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Ok what does it mean homozygous? And how do i know if i have one? Lol also have you kept records on your fry growthrates? And what is a good size to sell. I have had issues when i buy fish online where the small guys all die on me but i got th albinos as breed adult pair and they are doing great. So would it be feasable to grow them out until can sex them and that will help them survive and not so sensitive. Thoughts?
Homozygous means 2 long fin genes. Heterozygous means 1 long fin gene.

And the only way to tell is to breed one with a standard fin. If all the babies are long fin...that means the long fin parent had 2 long fin genes. So every baby got one and they only need one since long fin is dominant.

Growing them out to sexable size can take a very long time and wouldn't be feasible with a large spawn. Unless you have 100s of gallons. So youd want to reduce the spawn size early....or sell some when they are little and keep some longer.

Growth rate is determined by tank size, frequency of water changes and diet. They need more protein as babies than they do as adults. And daily water changes will be a must. The babies poop as much as the adults and you'll have a tank full of them.

I'd say you'll want to wait 4 months before selling them. Because I agree....so many breeders sell them way to early.
 

Jessielee83

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Ok thanks! I hope you dont mind biz with all my questions i just know you have been through it all as well as others on here but i feel like i know more about you with your diary lol which i need to get back to reading...on a side note i have 110 gallon that is empty and was thinking of getting that set up as a grow out. Im just on the fence cause its hard to clean out with gravel vac. Even though i would do bare bottom and i did get an ehiem? Battery operated vac so that might help with the debri and then just use sponge filters? Whats your tgought on that. Right now breeding is going on in 55 bow front and i have a 20 tall that has 3 juvies in it right now soon to be having 3 reds yay! So i can use that as a step 2 grow out and the 110 for step 3. Right now 3 week old batch about 20 dad and new batch wigglers are in a 10 gal. I know too small but wasnt prepared for back to back spawns. Thought they went at least 6 weeks. So the 10 is step 1 growing lol. I also have anotger 10 gal next to that one that has shrimp. But has gravel but i could maybe put some babies in there.

Ya my 3 week olds are prob an inch now and i think i got one from pet smart at that size. It died cpl weeks ago so im not trying to send them out the door that young. Ive also bought some that were maybe 1.5 to 1.75 and they didnt do well either. How long do you think would take to be 2.5?

Also do you do any breeding with super reads? Or anyone else that sees this post what would their breeding genes and offspring be. I have 3 2.5 inch longfin ones coming in. My next goal will be green dragons. Im in love with them.

So bizaliz i just reached the part of your diary where chrome was explaining the longfin genes lol. Very informative.

I found your ad on aquabid, but not for pure black Rams, just the hybrids. If you want to chat privately, discord is a great app, easily downloaded and can instantly message eachother.
 
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