Bn Albino Pleco Eyes/ Color

I have two plecos that I purchased as 'albino plecos' the female is a longfinned albino pleco and the male is normal finned. I know that they can have blue, black, or red eyes. I know they for sure aren't red but no matter how much research I do I can't seem to tell the difference between blue and black eyes? I guess my question is how would I tell the difference? Also the female is more yellow than white like the male, so does that make her a lemon pleco not albino? They recently layed eggs and I'm doing a project for an agriscience fair based on their genetics so I need to know for sure. Thanks!

 

If they don't have red eyes they are not albino. If they have red eyes they are albino.
Blue or black eyes is considered "luescistic" not albino.
Lemon BN plecos are what the blue-eyed yellow ones are typically called.

If your albino has no yellow/blue eyed gene AND your yellow and has no albino gene, most likely all the babies will be Brown.

Whereas if your albino has the yellow gene recessively or the yellow one has the albino gene recessivly, that's when you may get a mixture of offspring.

Edit.... if you're unable to tell if the eyes are blue or not, then they're probably black. The blue ones are very obviously blue. I can share a picture of my blue-eyed lemons if you'd like.

 

Can you post a picture?

 

Can you post a picture?

Here are pictures. I'll try to get better ones but the female was in the back and the male was in the cave so I had to use a flashlight.

Another of the female. On second thought her eyes might be red??? I have trouble making up my mind on these things

 

Your first post says the longfin albino is the female.... that albino in the first picture is definitely the male.

The second picture does look like a blue-eyed lemon female. She's got a few bristles on her lips but not enough bristles to be a male.

Another of the female. On second thought her eyes might be red??? I have trouble making up my mind on these things

Ok.... in this picture they do look red.
..

Here are a couple pictures of my blue-eyed lemons for reference

 

Your first post says the longfin albino is the female.... that albino in the first picture is definitely the male.

The second picture does look like a blue-eyed lemon female. She's got a few bristles on her lips but not enough bristles to be a male.

The first picture was of the male, and he is not longfinned. Unless the female just happens to be some sort of super longfinned pleco (lol) and he is more white and has been guarding the eggs. Here is a picture of him again, he came out for a second and I got one.

The second is the picture of the longfinned female (which is a little more yellow)

When getting a closer look I think that perhaps both of their eyes are red and I just couldn't tell earlier because they were Kinda far away..?

 

The first picture was of the male, and he is not longfinned. Unless the female just happens to be some sort of super longfinned pleco (lol) and he is more white and has been guarding the eggs. Here is a picture of him again, he came out for a second and I got one.

The second is the picture of the longfinned female (which is a little more yellow)

When getting a closer look I think that perhaps both of their eyes are red and I just couldn't tell earlier because they were Kinda far away..?

Yeah I'm thinking they're both albino based on those last two pictures.

The eyes on the female did not look red in the first picture you posted but I see it in this picture.

As for the babies there's a good chance there will be brown ones mixed in with albino.

Edit... and I apologize I couldn't really see the length of the Fins in those first two pictures....
And also, albinos do come in different shades some looking a little yellower than others.

 

Yeah I'm thinking they're both albino based on those last two pictures.

The eyes on the female did not look red in the first picture you posted but I see it in this picture.

As for the babies there's a good chance there will be brown ones mixed in with albino.

Edit... and I apologize I couldn't really see the length of the Fins in those first two pictures....
And also, albinos do come in different shades some looking a little yellower than others.

Thank you very much, and as far as the babies go I was wondering what would cause the babies to be brown. From my inderstanding I thought that albino was the recessive gene, therefore if both fish are albino the alleles would both be recessive (ex rr X rr) and from my understanding that would mean that the only possibility for the young would for them to be albino. But my hypothesis is that maybe the variation in the color of the albinos making yellow etc. perhaps this could be based off of some form of codomminance in the alleles? Maybe the male since he is white is pure albino and the female has some brown alleles that with the albino alleles make her a shade of yellow? I say this because I have seen other instances where two albinos make a mix and it kinda baffles me a little bit. This is why I'm doing a science fair project on this, because there isn't very much information out there about it (that I could find)
Thanks again!

 

Thank you very much, and as far as the babies go I was wondering what would cause the babies to be brown. From my inderstanding I thought that albino was the recessive gene, therefore if both fish are albino the alleles would both be recessive (ex rr X rr) and from my understanding that would mean that the only possibility for the young would for them to be albino. But my hypothesis is that maybe the variation in the color of the albinos making yellow etc. perhaps this could be based off of some form of codomminance in the alleles? Maybe the male since he is white is pure albino and the female has some brown alleles that with the albino alleles make her a shade of yellow? I say this because I have seen other instances where two albinos make a mix and it kinda baffles me a little bit. This is why I'm doing a science fair project on this, because there isn't very much information out there about it (that I could find)
Thanks again!

It is so complicated. And everything that you said makes perfect sense. But I've read about two albinos producing Brown babies on more than one occasion. I've read it has something to do with two locI being involved....

chromedome52 can you offer some insight on this one?

 

It is so complicated. And everything that you said makes perfect sense. But I've read about two albinos producing Brown babies on more than one occasion. I've read it has something to do with two locI being involved....

chromedome52 can you offer some insight on this one?

I thought locI was just the positioning of the chromosome? We didn't go over it much in biology last year...

 

I thought locI was just the positioning of the chromosome? We didn't go over it much in biology last year...

I am confident Chromdome52 will be able to help explain this one!

In the mean time, I'll share with you my experience. I can't share it in scientific terms, LOL, but you can use it for your project if you want.

My first pair was albino long fin male and brown long fin female. The babies came out exactly 50/50 albino and brown. And 100% long fins. So that brown mommy clearly carried the albino gene recessively. And having two long finned parents created all long finned babies.

Then that same brown mommy (long fin brown with recessive albino gene) had babies with my standard finned Lemon male (who I posted a picture of in my previous post)
Those babies came out 100% brown. and 50/50 long fin and standard fin. So that means my lemon dad has no recessive albino gene. If he did, I'd assume some of the babies would have been albino since we know the mom has the gene recessively. And of course having one long fin parent and one standard fin parent produced half long fin half standard.

Next, I decided I wanted to make my own blue eyed lemons, more specifically, long fin blue eyed lemons. SOOO I raised one of my male Lemon's long finned brown daughters and bred her back to her dad (knowing that she has the yellow blue eyed gene recessively) Their babies came out 50% blue eyed lemons and 50% browns. And they were 50/50 long fin and standard fin.

Edit, I have a whole journal about it if you want to check it out! haha

 

Blue Eyed Lemon is not the same gene as Albino, and they are on different loci, therefore the fry can come out 100% brown because
BlBl/NN x NN/aa (Bl is the blue eyes, N is normal, and a is albino) will produce 100% BlN/Na, or heterozygous for both genes. This is the likely explanation for the many reports of two albino fish producing brown fry. The question I've always had is whether the two strains originated with two different species of Bristlenose. However, in light of recent information, I suspect that they are just two different mutations within the same species, like Marble and Smokey in Angelfish, which are also on different locI despite their similarity in appearance.

 

Blue Eyed Lemon is not the same gene as Albino, and they are on different loci, therefore the fry can come out 100% brown because
BlBl/NN x NN/aa (Bl is the blue eyes, N is normal, and a is albino) will produce 100% BlN/Na, or heterozygous for both genes. This is the likely explanation for the many reports of two albino fish producing brown fry. The question I've always had is whether the two strains originated with two different species of Bristlenose. However, in light of recent information, I suspect that they are just two different mutations within the same species, like Marble and Smokey in Angelfish, which are also on different locI despite their similarity in appearance.

Just so I get this straight......are you saying you're thinking that the reports of two albinos making brown babies were people with a lemon and an albino? Rather than two albinos?

Is it possible for two true albinos to make brown babies?

 

I doubt that two true albinos could make brown babies, unless they are from two different species. The only known true albino fish with a dominant gene is the common Krib, Pelvicachromis pulcher. I have seen people talking about their "yellow" albinos all the time, I wonder if they even look at the eyes. There are albinos of other species that are yellow, rather than white, as albinism is only the removal of melanin, and that was why my initial belief was that the two strains were both albino, but originated in two different species lines. However, blue-eyed albinos are only found in mammals, from what I've found.

 

I would be very interested in the results of your experiment.

 

I would be very interested in the results of your experiment.

They've already hatched and I have for sure 10 live ones and I may have lost 2 but 13 hatched and I'm documenting it all

 

Yellow + blue eyes = xanthism
Whitish + red eyes = albininism
Yellow + red eyes = albininism
Whitish + black eyes = leucism (doubting there are leucisic BN's.

There are two different albinism gens in albinos which are both recessive. That's the reason why 2 albinos can get all brown offspring.

Offspring of browns and albinos depends if the brown has a recessive albinogen in.
If so offspring will be mixed. If not all be brown but all will have the recessive gen.

 

Yellow + blue eyes = xanthism
Whitish + red eyes = albininism
Yellow + red eyes = albininism
Whitish + black eyes = leucism (doubting there are leucisic BN's.

There are two different albinism gens in albinos which are both recessive. That's the reason why 2 albinos can get all brown offspring.

Offspring of browns and albinos depends if the brown has a recessive albinogen in.
If so offspring will be mixed. If not all be brown but all will have the recessive gen.

Thank you very much this was very clear cut and seemed to explain it very well. So by two different Albanian genes do you mean there is like 2 alleles (xxbb) and as long as they have one ( xx or bb) then they would be albino, but not pure and could then be carrying the brown gene as well?

Here are the babies, they started hatching yesterday (after the dad kicked the eggs out of the cave ) and now I have for sure 10 live wigglers and I might have lost 2 but I'm not completely sure

 

Thank you very much this was very clear cut and seemed to explain it very well. So by two different Albanian genes do you mean there is like 2 alleles (xxbb) and as long as they have one ( xx or bb) then they would be albino, but not pure and could then be carrying the brown gene as well?

Quite difficult cause there seem to be two totally different gens involved in the albino color. I am not an expert but have read an article at Planet Catfish about this.
A great source and several experts lurking around.