Bloated? Thinking caps needed!

Momgoose56

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Mel254 said:
Gaaaaaa
Have been doing 10- 20% each day for the past three days and a couple days lowered to 40 and he got zippier but every morning im back to 80 nitrate (boo)
Just did another 10% and two hours later nitrate still high and hes still bottom ish
still eating but ive reduced his feeding so he's super hungry.. just ate a piece of floating moss ball geez

I don't want to shock him with a big water change as I've red that can happen and small consistent ones are maybe better.... but we are now on day 8 of this and the nitrates are still high so i think that's the only recourse left. This just happened suddenly the day after thanksgiving which is odd to me -- does nitrate happen that quickly, like literally overnight?

I have one kinda grimy filter (i stock my filter media with two at a time btw) that i'm considering replacing with a new one because i have two in there so i wouldn't be losing all the bb.. but idk if that will be helpful or not
A 10% change is like spitting in the ocean-a 10% change will bring 80ppm nitrates down to 70ppm. Do a 50% water change 3 days in a row. It won't hurt your fish, it won't disrupt your cycle, it WILL lower your nitrates.
Rinse your filter media thoroughly in fresh dechlorinated water, clean out the filter itself and your intake tubing with a tube brush and thoroughly vacuum your substrate. I'd also suggest looking at how much you're feeding your fish. If they don't eat all the food you give them within 2 minutes, you're feeding too much.
 

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Momgoose56 said:
A 10% change is like spitting in the ocean-a 10% change will bring 80ppm nitrates down to 70ppm. Do a 50% water change 3 days in a row. It won't hurt your fish, it won't disrupt your cycle, it WILL lower your nitrates.
Rinse your filter media thoroughly in fresh dechlorinated water, clean out the filter itself and your intake tubing with a tube brush and thoroughly vacuum your substrate. I'd also suggest looking at how much you're feeding your fish. If they don't eat all the food you give them within 2 minutes, you're feeding too much.
So it won't bring it down to 70ppm, it'll bring it down to whatever 80 minus 10% of 80 is. Search your tank as well. If you have any snails or anything in there that had died they could be causing nitrate spikes. Getting everything rinsed and cleaned off is a good idea just don't sanitize anything. If it's touching your water, it can contribute to biologic filtration. If you go sterilizing filters or anything that can cause an ammonia spike.
 

Momgoose56

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Cerberusfish said:
So it won't bring it down to 70ppm, it'll bring it down to whatever 80 minus 10% of 80 is. Search your tank as well. If you have any snails or anything in there that had died they could be causing nitrate spikes. Getting everything rinsed and cleaned off is a good idea just don't sanitize anything. If it's touching your water, it can contribute to biologic filtration. If you go sterilizing filters or anything that can cause an ammonia spike.
So 72 ppm :meh: . I tend to round my numbers up or down, to the nearest 10th (learned that in 4th grade) lol!
 

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I agree, and as I have said from the beginning, a large water change is needed. Goldfish are very hardy, and it will not upset his balance at all. He will thank you for the clean water. You need to find the source of these nitrates. Goldfish are heavy on the bioload, and this is why they require a large tank with regular water changes. If something else died in the tank or if you are overfeeding this could make the nitrates spike. What type of food do you feed? How often and how much?
 
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Mel254

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Sheena-Phx said:
I agree, and as I have said from the beginning, a large water change is needed. Goldfish are very hardy, and it will not upset his balance at all. He will thank you for the clean water. You need to find the source of these nitrates. Goldfish are heavy on the bioload, and this is why they require a large tank with regular water changes. If something else died in the tank or if you are overfeeding this could make the nitrates spike. What type of food do you feed? How often and how much?
We are holding steady at 40 after a water change. And I will do another large one today.
He is one fish in a 40 gallon
I usually feed him dried shrimp pieces daily am and pm ( about a half of one piece each time) and alternate every other days with veggies- either peas or broccoli bc those are the only two I’ve found he enjoys
I think the spike happened bc I oversee a couple weeks ago perhaps
And then took a week to build up
Bc my tank mojo otherwise is on point
I always do water changes I rinse filters in the water and don’t replace unless falling apart
Have live plants
Know about nitro cycle etc etc
Today after 40 holding steady for a full day he was brighter in the am (meaning.. (came out and did normal swimming around) (previously has only been like this in the pm)
Still freaks out and hides when I turn on the aquarium light tho which I usually keep on during day. So I’m leaving that off for now
 

Momgoose56

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Mel254 said:
We are holding steady at 40 after a water change. And I will do another large one today.
He is one fish in a 40 gallon
I usually feed him dried shrimp pieces daily am and pm ( about a half of one piece each time) and alternate every other days with veggies- either peas or broccoli bc those are the only two I’ve found he enjoys
I think the spike happened bc I oversee a couple weeks ago perhaps
And then took a week to build up
Bc my tank mojo otherwise is on point
I always do water changes I rinse filters in the water and don’t replace unless falling apart
Have live plants
Know about nitro cycle etc etc
Today after 40 holding steady for a full day he was brighter in the am (meaning.. (came out and did normal swimming around) (previously has only been like this in the pm)
Still freaks out and hides when I turn on the aquarium light tho which I usually keep on during day. So I’m leaving that off for now
You might want to invest in a good goldfish pellet (they come in different sizes) or flake food. That will provide the trace nutrients a goldfish needs and can't get in a 'box of water'. Feeding him freeze dried shrimp and two veggies he normally wouldn't eat in the wild exclusively is like feeding a cat freeze dried elk liver and spinach all the time lol! They need the extra variety of micronutrients for their skin, bones, growth, immune system and to maintain general health.
 
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Mel254

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Momgoose56 said:
You might want to invest in a good goldfish pellet (they come in different sizes) or flake food. That will provide the trace nutrients a goldfish needs and can't get in a 'box of water'. Feeding him freeze dried shrimp and two veggies he normally wouldn't eat in the wild exclusively is like feeding a cat freeze dried elk liver and spinach all the time lol! They need the extra variety of micronutrients for their skin, bones, growth, immune system and to maintain general health.
Thanks for the tip! I neglected to mention that I do indeed have pellets that he does get as well, omega I think is the brand
Pellets which I soak and he usually comes up to surface so I can hand feed
Haven’t lately Bc he hasn’t come up to the surface to take them from my hand :(
I don’t feed him flakes
 

Momgoose56

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Mel254 said:
Thanks for the tip! I neglected to mention that I do indeed have pellets that he does get as well, omega I think is the brand
Pellets which I soak and he usually comes up to surface so I can hand feed
Haven’t lately Bc he hasn’t come up to the surface to take them from my hand :(
I don’t feed him flakes
Okay, good. Get those nitrates down to less than 20 and keep them there with big (50-75%) weekly water changes and he should do much better.
 
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Mel254

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Momgoose56 said:
Okay, good. Get those nitrates down to less than 20 and keep them there with big (50-75%) weekly water changes and he should do much better.
That’s the plan lol
I don’t as on a biweekly water change schedule but once I get this situation stabilized
I will do weeklys just to keep it in check

Q/ how long after the nitrates get down to 20 until the nitrate that might have accumulated in his system is cleared?
I have noticed improvements in his behavior with just the decrease from 80-40 but certainly he isn’t at normal yet. It’s been 10 days. Is there a cumulative effect to expect here
Or a bounce back?
Things to look for once I get to 20... Good and bad?

Also.. once stabilized should I add a second filter? Right now I have a TopFin 20-40 pf
And am thinking adding a small pf for a 10 wouldn’t hurt.: the extra filtration that is..
I have a backup filter unit that is for a 50-70 but haven’t switched out yet because the existing one has been working fine
And how often do y’all clean out the actual filter parts once water is stable?

I was thinking of checking the impeller etc and rinsing it all yesterday but didn’t want to mess with the filter while things were improving. Might save that for a later day.
 

Momgoose56

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Mel254 said:
That’s the plan lol
I don’t as on a biweekly water change schedule but once I get this situation stabilized
I will do weeklys just to keep it in check

Q/ how long after the nitrates get down to 20 until the nitrate that might have accumulated in his system is cleared?
I have noticed improvements in his behavior with just the decrease from 80-40 but certainly he isn’t at normal yet. It’s been 10 days. Is there a cumulative effect to expect here
Or a bounce back?
Things to look for once I get to 20... Good and bad?

Also.. once stabilized should I add a second filter? Right now I have a TopFin 20-40 pf
And am thinking adding a small pf for a 10 wouldn’t hurt.: the extra filtration that is..
I have a backup filter unit that is for a 50-70 but haven’t switched out yet because the existing one has been working fine
And how often do y’all clean out the actual filter parts once water is stable?

I was thinking of checking the impeller etc and rinsing it all yesterday but didn’t want to mess with the filter while things were improving. Might save that for a later day.
Are you saying it's been 10 days since the last water change that brought your nitrates down to 40ppm?

I guess you're not understanding what the problem is here.
1. Your nitrate levels are and probably have been way too high. That is poisoning your fish- that's why he's sick!
2. You need to get your nitrate level down to less than 20ppm NOW. That means 50% water changes every day until your Nitrate level is less than 20ppm. THEN
3. Do big enough water changes as often as needed (usually one a week if you don't overfeed and keep filters maintained and gravel vacuumed) to keep nitrates less than 20 ppm. That may mean 50% to 75% once a week or more, it might mean 50% twice a week.
Your questions:
"Q/ how long after the nitrates get down to 20 until the nitrate that might have accumulated in his system is cleared?"
The entire tank and water is your "system"- whatever the water tests at is the level the "system" is at.
I don't know what this means
" Is there a cumulative effect to expect here
Or a bounce back?"
If you mean the fishes response to high nitrate levels, yes there's a cumulative effect- just like if you ate arsenic every day- you'd feel sick all the time, eventually it would kill you. And yes, if you quit eating arsenic, you'd feel better, get rid of nitrates, your fish will feel better.

And the rest of your questions:
Your tank isn't unstable-just poorly maintained. You're fixing that
Add the extra filtration now. More filtration is always good.

Rinse filter media in dechlorinated water every time you do a water change. Check filter and impeller function every time you do a water change, clean it as needed-I usually clean the filter interiors and impellers every 4-6 months if there are no apparent problems.
 
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Mel254

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Momgoose56 said:
Are you saying it's been 10 days since the last water change that brought your nitrates down to 40ppm?
No I am not.

It has been ten days since the beginning of nothing something off with his behavior started. Once I confirmed highI have been doing water
changes daily, since I posted here, admittedly smaller at first but as of the last two days have done large
Today will do another large
Momgoose56 said:
I guess you're not understanding what the problem is here.
1. Your nitrate levels are and probably have been way too high. That is poisoning your fish- that's why he's sick!
2. You need to get your nitrate level down to less than 20ppm NOW. That means 50% water changes every day until your Nitrate level is less than 20ppm. THEN
3. Do big enough water changes as often as needed (usually one a week if you don't overfeed and keep filters maintained and gravel vacuumed) to keep nitrates less than 20 ppm. That may mean 50% to 75% once a week or more, it might mean 50% twice a week.
no I do understand
That’s why I’m doing the large water changes
as advised
Thanks

My questions were relative to going forward after lowering the nitrates
 

Momgoose56

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Mel254 said:
No I am not.

It has been ten days since the beginning of nothing something off with his behavior started. Once I confirmed highI have been doing water
changes daily, since I posted here, admittedly smaller at first but as of the last two days have done large
Today will do another large


no I do understand
That’s why I’m doing the large water changes
as advised
Thanks

My questions were relative to going forward after lowering the nitrates
Okay, if you reread my post, I edited it while you were writing this response. I realized I hadn't answered your questions.
 
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Mel254

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Mel254 said:
No I am not.

It has been ten days since the beginning of nothing something off with his behavior started. Once I confirmed highI have been doing water
changes daily, since I posted here, admittedly smaller at first but as of the last two days have done large
Today will do another large


no I do understand
That’s why I’m doing the large water changes
as advised
Thanks

My questions were relative to going forward after lowering the nitrates
To clarify, the lowering of nitrate hasn’t dropped to 20 yet WITH the water changes I’ve done every day yet( although they have dropped) which is why I’m continuing doing the daily changes until I hit 20
 

Momgoose56

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"I have noticed improvements in his behavior with just the decrease from 80-40 but certainly he isn’t at normal yet. It’s been 10 days." THIS is why I asked you that question. Sorry, i then noticed you had said you had done the big water change and we're doing another one today. My apologies-:sorry:

Mel254 said:
To clarify, the lowering of nitrate hasn’t dropped to 20 yet WITH the water changes I’ve done every day yet( although they have dropped) which is why I’m continuing doing the daily changes until I hit 20
Try to get it well under 20. You're not going to be doing another water change for a week and nitrates will continue to be produced so you want a little 'cushion'.
 

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I think the perfect storm was building up in this tank and it finally got you where you are right now. The small water changes were leaving most of the water in there and the nitrates just kept building up. If you weren't cleaning your filter during all this time it wasn't doing as good a job as needed either. I know you were cleaning the media but sometimes the filter itself need to be cleaned

On top of that I am thinking the filter you are using really isn't sufficient for a goldfish in this size tank. Either switch to the bigger one you have or run both of them. You can't over filter your tank. To much water movement is possible but you can never filter too much.

I am also thinking the 0 reading for nitrates was a false reading. I have to think they were so high the test defaulted back down to 0 or 5. The reason they seemed to jump back up after the water changes is because you lowered them to a level that the test could actually read.

Once you get the nitrates down to 20 or lower run the test just before your next scheduled water change. That number will tell you how much water needs to be changed to get them back down to the original number. Meaning, if they were 20 and within a week they go up to 40 a 50% water change will get them back down to 20. Of course, If they jump higher a bigger water change will need to be done.
 

John58ford

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I will try to address the what you can expect after you get it down question.
If I remember, Momgoose56 I believe shared a number in a thread that 1ppm ammonia, after being bio filtered should give you ~3.5ppm of nitrate. With that known and your tap water testing at 1ppm ammonia your tap water in a cycled tank with no fish you should have 3.5 or so 24 hours later. Add in the single goldfish, there will be more but it shouldn't be all that high, I think you should manage to stay under 15ppm weekly as you likely were for the last 11 months.

As your fish grows, add plants. I'm sure someone here knows which are the best for absorbing nitrates in cold water. I haven't done anything colder than 77 degrees but I know you can absorb so much nitrate in a very heavily stocked tank using crypt wendtii that I never get a reading. That tank has about 1/3 substrate coverage of crypt. I don't use fertilizers and my water doesn't call for water conditioner.

Cue the plant experts. Good luck with your tank, I've never done a single big fish themed tank, I hope it goes great for you.
 
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Mel254

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Momgoose56 said:
I guess you're not understanding what the problem is here.
1. Your nitrate levels are and probably have been way too high. That is poisoning your fish- that's why he's sick!
2. You need to get your nitrate level down to less than 20ppm NOW. That means 50% water changes every day until your Nitrate level is less than 20ppm. THEN
3. Do big enough water changes as often as needed (usually one a week if you don't overfeed and keep filters maintained and gravel vacuumed) to keep nitrates less than 20 ppm. That may mean 50% to 75% once a week or more, it might mean 50% twice a week.
Your questions:
"Q/ how long after the nitrates get down to 20 until the nitrate that might have accumulated in his system is cleared?"
The entire tank and water is your "system"- whatever the water tests at is the level the "system" is at.
I don't know what this means
" Is there a cumulative effect to expect here
Or a bounce back?"
If you mean the fishes response to high nitrate levels, yes there's a cumulative effect- just like if you ate arsenic every day- you'd feel sick all the time, eventually it would kill you. And yes, if you quit eating arsenic, you'd feel better, get rid of nitrates, your fish will feel better.

And the rest of your questions:
Your tank isn't unstable-just poorly maintained. You're fixing that
Add the extra filtration now. More filtration is always good.

Rinse filter media in dechlorinated water every time you do a water change. Check filter and impeller function every time you do a water change, clean it as needed-I usually clean the filter interiors and impellers every 4-6 months if there are no apparent problems.
Ok thank you
Momgoose56 said:
"I have noticed improvements in his behavior with just the decrease from 80-40 but certainly he isn’t at normal yet. It’s been 10 days." THIS is why I asked you that question. Sorry, i then noticed you had said you had done the big water change and we're doing another one today. My apologies-:sorry:
No problem and thank ya ok so much for the guidance! And answering my questions
I had read conflicting info online about adding filters ( that the new one makes the existing one less efficient so that’s why I asked )
Thanks again!

mattgirl said:
I think the perfect storm was building up in this tank and it finally got you where you are right now. The small water changes were leaving most of the water in there and the nitrates just kept building up. If you weren't cleaning your filter during all this time it wasn't doing as good a job as needed either. I know you were cleaning the media but sometimes the filter itself need to be cleaned

On top of that I am thinking the filter you are using really isn't sufficient for a goldfish in this size tank. Either switch to the bigger one you have or run both of them. You can't over filter your tank. To much water movement is possible but you can never filter too much.

I am also thinking the 0 reading for nitrates was a false reading. I have to think they were so high the test defaulted back down to 0 or 5. The reason they seemed to jump back up after the water changes is because you lowered them to a level that the test could actually read.

Once you get the nitrates down to 20 or lower run the test just before your next scheduled water change. That number will tell you how much water needs to be changed to get them back down to the original number. Meaning, if they were 20 and within a week they go up to 40 a 50% water change will get them back down to 20. Of course, If they jump higher a bigger water change will need to be done.
Ok and the prime everyday with the water changes won’t be a problem right?
I’m at about 3 caps now over days
I know you can do 5 x more so I’m still ok
 

Momgoose56

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If I were you, I would just put the "backup filter unit that is for a 50-70" on this tank, transfer ALL the media over to the bigger filter and just run that in the tank. If it has an adjustable flow rate, crank it down to low, and keep -the smaller filter as your back up. With a goldfish, you can't over filter- but at the same time, you don't want to blast him around the tank with too much flow!
You don't need to overdose the Prime at this point. One half teaspoon every other day is enough until you get your nitrates to below 20ppm. Then just treat replacement water at the normal dose (1 ml per 10 gallons).
 
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Mel254

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Momgoose56 said:
Try to get it well under 20. You're not going to be doing another water change for a week and nitrates will continue to be produced so you want a little 'cushion'.
Ok
Should I clean filter with today’s water change or wait on that piece until the water change in a week?
 

prasunchoudhari

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another fast way for removing the high nitrates is introducing money plants (indian name) roots in the water and letting the plant grow on top of the tank. it pulls out a lot of nitrates from the water (consider adding at least 4 to 5 of them for the size of the tank you mensioned)
 
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