Black Moor Has White Mouth

Tayls

Member
Can't seem to find any info online about this. The other black moor doesn't have a white mouth.
He has been flashing a bit here and there so obviously concerned and wondering whether to medicate. Here's the only clear pic I could get (he's very active)
Parameters: Amm 0 Nitrites 0 Nitrates 10. Temp 73 degrees farenheit. They are fed on Repashy super gold gel food 2 x a day and brine shrimp / daphnia / bloodworm 3x a week
Thank you
Ps it's not white dots, it's all round the mouth and there are no other white dots on his fins or anything. I'm pretty sure he didn't have a white mouth when I got him
 

Rtessy

Member
My common goldfish had something similar to this, I'll come back with a pic in a bit. I couldn't get the right answer from anyone, and it kept growing and taking off some of the skin. I got answers from columnaris to costia, but the meds never worked. In the end, I used hydrogen peroxide and it finally went away. Get a net, a Q-tip, and hydrogen peroxide. Dip the Q-tip in hydrogen peroxide, lift your fish out, gently swab it's mouth, leave it out for 5-10 seconds, then put it back in the tank. Your fish probably won't like it, mine was shaking her head a lot, but it went away and didn't come back.

Here's some pictures, it almost looked like a slimy infection of sorts.
 
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Tayls

Member
Oh thank you! And bless him. Well done for working out what to do with success. I'd never think to do that. But scared to do it if I'm honest. Thanks so much for the advice and photos!

Sorry, *her. Is she still with you?
 

Rtessy

Member
Tayls said:
Oh thank you! And bless him. Well done for working out what to do with success. I'd never think to do that. But scared to do it if I'm honest. Thanks so much for the advice and photos!

Sorry, *her. Is she still with you?
I actually ended up getting the advice from a very experienced goldfish keeper, it had never crossed my mind either!
And yes, even after getting dropsy 2x, she's still alive and kicking! 4 years old, 8 inches, and still growing
 
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Tayls

Member
Wow amazing! Good for you! She's very lucky. I'm going to look into getting hydrogen peroxide thank you
 

Rtessy

Member
Tayls said:
Wow amazing! Good for you! She's very lucky. I'm going to look into getting hydrogen peroxide thank you
No problem, and yeah, crazy lucky fair fish! I mean, dropsy twice?!
I sure hope it works for your fish!! You should be able to find hydrogen peroxide at most drug stores, both 2% and 3% works fine.
 
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Tayls

Member
Gosh, yes very lucky fair fish! Thanks so much for the advice
 

Rtessy

Member
Tayls said:
Gosh, yes very lucky fair fish! Thanks so much for the advice
No problem, I'll be here if you have any more questions or concerns!
 
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Tayls

Member
Thanks!
 

Skavatar

Member
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Tayls

Member
I will, thank you! Are there any brands you'd recommend?
 

Skavatar

Member
no personal experience myself.

according to this, there are a few strains of columnaris, some are more resistant to meds than others. he had success with . The ingredient is 100% Sulfathiazole

a few other sites recommend Methylene blue, , Acriflavine, Furan2, Terramycin, Kanaplex and Maracyn 2
 
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Tayls

Member
Oh great thank you so much!

Sorry to ask again but I'm new to this and don't want to upset my fish. Should I treat the one fish in a 5 gallon bucket with methylyne blue? If so, for how long should I leave him in this 'hospital tank'?
 

Rtessy

Member
Tayls said:
Sorry to ask again but I'm new to this and don't want to upset my fish. Should I treat the one fish in a 5 gallon bucket with methylyne blue? If so, for how long should I leave him in this 'hospital tank'?
Have you done the hydrogen peroxide swab yet? Lol, sorry for still asking questions
 
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Tayls

Member
I haven't! Do you think I should do that first?

Oh and sorry to keep asking stupid questions(!) but would it be the 3% or 12% that you'd recommend? Just looking at it now
 

Rtessy

Member
Tayls said:
Oh and sorry to keep asking stupid questions(!) but would it be the 3% or 12% that you'd recommend? Just looking at it now
I would recommend going with the H2O2 first, and go with the 3%
 
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Tayls

Member
Thanks! Really helpful everyone
 
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Tayls

Member
HI again! Rtessy I finally got the hydrogen peroxide 3% delivered and attempted to apply straight to his mouth with cotton swabs. It took 12 goes, because he would dart off each time he realised it wasn't food, but I think in those twelve swabs I swiped his mouth each time. I couldn't hold him and do any kind of firm swab against his mouth but definitely contacted with the hydrogen peroxide every time, with a new dose of hydrogen peroxide on a new cotton swab if you know what I mean.
Do you think this is enough? And should I keep doing this every day til it goes?
Thanks again, so much, for your suggestions - everyone!

PS the 'white lipstick' went down a bit before I got the hydrogen peroxide, is this even possible without treatment? Perhaps it was just wishful thinking but did look less intense
 

Skavatar

Member
Tayls said:
PS the 'white lipstick' went down a bit before I got the hydrogen peroxide, is this even possible without treatment? Perhaps it was just wishful thinking but did look less intense
possible if you did regular water changes, clean water is the best preventative of diseases.
 
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Tayls

Member
Hopefully! What is it do you think? As the others don't have it I'm a bit confused! Columnaris?
 

Rtessy

Member
Did you take him out of the water to do the swab? H2O2 breaks down into oxygen and water quickly, so it's possible it broke down before doing anything if you did the swab underwater.
I can definitely say it's not columnaris, everything in the tank would be dead by now. It's am awful disease.
Sorry for the late response alsk
 
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Tayls

Member
Oh thank you! Of course, that makes so much sense. I didn't, no, I need to take him out and try again of course. Sorry, I'm such a beginner with it all. I will try again and let you know how it goes. Yes otherwise he seems happy, very active, eating really well and chasing my female black moor around every so often as normal
 

Rtessy

Member
Hey, no problem, and you're not the first to do it, that's why I kinda guessed, lol. No need to apologise either!!
 
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Tayls

Member
HI again, sorry to keep asking questions but basically struggling a bit! The poor guy is now flashing here and there and still has a white mouth. Can't see any white dots on his body but I'm assuming it's ich / fungal. Just wondered if there was anything else I could try? He is still eating and active and seems okay other than the horrible cotton mouth and ich thing going on. Wish I could relieve the discomfort for him somehow. Water parameters are 0, 0, 20 and temperature 23 degrees celsius. The other two fish aren't showing any similar signs at all. It's been going on for a couple of weeks now poor guy
 
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Tayls

Member
Also just noticed my other black moor who is usually so healthy and robust, now has one clouded white eye. Is this in any way related would you think? The nitrates have risen to 20-30ppm so about to do a 50% w/c. Again, apologies for asking so many annoying questions. Just concerned for them!
 

Rtessy

Member
Ack, sorry again! Got a lot of stuff going on in life.
The good news is that it can't be Ich, it's possible it's a fungus.
The eye sounds like something else, not sure what that is.
I'd switch to methylene blue for both of them. You'll need a different tub or something for them because it'll destroy your beneficial bacteria and stain everything blue.
Get a sterilite container, the 6qt one will work and is 96¢ at Target. Fill it with water, lay down painters tarp or similar aound it to catch any splashes, it stains everything.
There are two dosages on the bottle. Look at the lower dose, the one for eggs, I believe it's like 10 drops per two gallon. Double it and put your fish in the bath for 30 mintues. Actually, you'll need two containers, one to "rinse" them in for 5 min after the bath before going back in the aquarium. So 10 drops per gallon, 6qt is 1.5 gallons.
Sorry if that's confusing, my brain is fogg
 
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Tayls

Member
Thank you so much! I hope you're okay? Sounds like you've got a lot going on?
I have 2 x 3 gallon buckets I will use (and only fill halfway, dosing with 15 drops). That's really helped, I was getting very confused and concerned so thank you so much! I will update you on any progress
 

Rtessy

Member
Tayls said:
Thank you so much! I hope you're okay? Sounds like you've got a lot going on?
I have 2 x 3 gallon buckets I will use (and only fill halfway, dosing with 15 drops). That's really helped, I was getting very confused and concerned so thank you so much! I will update you on any progress
I'm good, thanks for asking! Just got sick for the first half of the week, so I've got a lot of work to make up
If you use the buckets, you'll have to rinse them really really well before using them for water changes and stuff, and they may get stained. Should scrape off after it dries though.
 
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Tayls

Member
Oh no! Nightmare!
Oh that's great thanks for all the extra advice, I need it. As I'm in the UK methylene blue is going to take a week to deliver, I wondered if the API Primafix antifungal bottle would do the same thing? Again, apologies for more questions!
 

Rtessy

Member
Tayls said:
Oh no! Nightmare!
Oh that's great thanks for all the extra advice, I need it. As I'm in the UK methylene blue is going to take a week to deliver, I wondered if the API Primafix antifungal bottle would do the same thing? Again, apologies for more questions!
I'm not sure, sorry, I know it's a weaker medication that methylene blue, but I don't think we're dealing with anything top bad. Personally, I can't use it because apparently the tea tree oil messes with my asthma... Lol, that was a fun time, cuz my tanks are in my bedroom so I had to sleep on the couch for a while
 

BRP

Member
I don't know if it's available in the UK but you might want to try Voogle to support your fish.
Here is link:

You won't harm the fish or BB by using Voogle.
 
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Tayls

Member
Thank you again! So so helpful. I managed to locate some methylene blue online that will arrive tomorrow. Thanks again everyone!
 

BRP

Member
Keep us updates, we all can learn from it.
 
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Tayls

Member
Definitely,Yes. I love to know the outcomes on these threads also. Will post pics of any progress too
 
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Tayls

Member
HI again, just an update - I gave them all a methylene blue bath for 30 mins (2ml per 8 litre bucket) and popped them back in their tank. They've been eating well and swimming around like normal since. I just wondered if I should do it again? The mouth is still white and eye still cloudy so wondered how long it would take to clear up
 

Rtessy

Member
I'd give them a day or two first, methylene blue is extremely gentle, but moving them back and forth can stress them a bit.
 
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Tayls

Member
Okay thanks!
 
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Tayls

Member
Hello (again). Just an update if anyone is reading - gave them another methylene blue bath for 30 minutes about a week ago. Unfortunately the white lip black moor still has his white lips and still flashing a little bit. His whole body has a kind of white outline to him, not spotty like ich. The other black moor has very faint white lips now and a white 'behind' (not sure if this is from the original white mouth male chasing her all the time, does it work like that - on contact?)
I should probably try an antI fungal med, just researching which one. Thinking of API melafix?
Apologies I'm still working it out. Oh and I can't for the life of me apply the hydrogen peroxide correctly they're not at all happy with me handling them and I feel I'm stressing them further with my inexperience. Poor guys.
Water parameters: Amm 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 10 Temp: 22 degrees celsius
 

Rtessy

Member
Dang, seriously? Any chance it's costia? Maybe just slime coat shedding.
Also, I think melafix is for bacterial infections and pimafix is for fungal. Methylene blue should have taken care of any external fungal infections though, poor little dudes.
 
  • Thread Starter

Tayls

Member
Ah! I'll try pimafix then. Thanks. It's always so off putting reading the reviews for medications. But I'll try anything, hate watching him flash! Hopefully it's slime coat shedding, thanks I hadn't heard of that before
 
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Tayls

Member
Oh and I'd also never heard of costia so just looked it up thank you. He has no other symptoms luckily (no red gills or clamped or lethargic etc). He's eating very well and is active as ever
 

Rtessy

Member
Aright, great! Personally, I haven't had a lot of luck with pimafix, mainly because apparently it's not great for asthma, lol. Some people say it works, some don't, I think it's relativey weak, but that's probably good to give your guys a little break
 
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Tayls

Member
Oh right! Hmm yes doesn't sound great and the reviews are a bit rubbish too Haha. Perhaps I'll see how they go with more water changes and one more methylene blue bath in a couple of days (only doing it once a week)
 

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