Biz's Bn Pleco Breeding Journal!

I thought I was done breeding plecos. After just two spawns a little over a year ago, I was fed up with plecos. Too much poop and too many babies!! lol

BUT there was one project/dream that I started over a year ago that has finally come true and has me willing to breed them again.....

To sum it up for those who don't already know, I have had a yellow blue eyed male BN pleco for 4 years. He is stunning. He fathered babies with a long finned brown female in October 2015. They were all brown. And they were a mixture of long and short fins. I saved several of the babies until I had a for-sure female. He has been living with his daughter for almost a year as I have waited patiently for her to get big enough to lay me some eggs. The goal here is that I HOPE that she has the yellow blue eyed gene recessively since her dad is a yellow blue eyed pleco. And I HOPE that, as a result, a portion of her babies will be yellow blue eyed babies. Maybe even some long fin yellow blue eyes babies (because his daughter is long finned)!!!

She finally laid me some eggs WOOO HOOOOOOO!!!!! I have waited so long!!! The kicker is whether or not she did in fact get the gene. Do all of the babies get all the genes from both their parents? Or might she have missed out on the yellow blue eyed gene from her dad? I am so anxious. We will know in the next couple weeks!!

I'd love to have people follow along on the journey!! tyguy7760 you asked for a mention

 

You might want to research the genes in question. It could be as simple as a punnet square, but it could also be the result of multiple genes in play, on the same or different chromosomes. If it's a sex-linked gene then none of your females will ever inherit it. Really depends on how many genes are respondsible for the yellow-blue eye, dominancy, inheritance, and expression.

 

Following

 

You might want to research the genes in question. It could be as simple as a punnet square, but it could also be the result of multiple genes in play, on the same or different chromosomes. If it's a sex-linked gene then none of your females will ever inherit it. Really depends on how many genes are respondsible for the yellow-blue eye, dominancy, inheritance, and expression.

I have tried my darndest to find some info about it, but I am not having any luck. Believe me, I have done my research LOL

I breed angelfish and use the angelfish genetics calculator a lot. I find that when one parent has a trait and the other doesn't, it says that 100% of the babies WILL have it recessively. Not just a portion of them. So if pleco genes are at all similar to angelfish genes, then I would assume that his daughter does have the gene recessively.

 

Not trying to get off topic but what calculator do you use?

Also we need pics!

 

Not trying to get off topic but what calculator do you use?

Also we need pics!

Just google "angelfish genetics calculator" there are two options that I have used! But you have to know a lot about the different genes to pick out the right angel parents. And then also, you don't know what recessive genes each of those parents have, so you never really know for sure.

I will add some pics shortly!!!

 

Awaiting the results with bated breath! How long until they hatch do you think?

 

Here is dad



And mom.... his daughter... with a belly full of eggs



And one of the new babies I just bought because I was getting impatient. Interesting timing LOL

 

Awaiting the results with bated breath! How long until they hatch do you think?

I don't know, experience wise, because both of my previous litters were not known about until the babies started being brave and leaving the cave!

I read that they hatch after about 4 days and after 10 days you should start to see some of them start swimming. I don't know FOR SURE when she laid her eggs. I hadn't looked at her belly in a few days. But I saw how skinny she was last night and I knew she had to have laid eggs. It could have been anytime in the last few days.

 

following!

 

There is a small bundle of eggs that fell off the top of the "cave" and right into the line of sight for the opening of the ship they used. This is kind of neat because it will allow me to possibly see the development process like I can with angelfish. However, dad isn't caring for those eggs. Not that I can tell. He is focused on the others. So without his care taking, I am not sure if they will successfully hatch. But here is a picture of them

 

Following!

 

So exciting! I want a yellow blue eyed if you will be shipping them!

 

So exciting! I want a yellow blue eyed if you will be shipping them!

I'll consider it!!!
I don't want to get too excited because I'm so paranoid I'm going to end up with a litter of all brown babies!!
That will be a HUGE let down! A major blow to the gut!!!

 

The babies just hatched!! And thanks to the small bundle that fell to the ground...I get to see them!!! Here's a video I was sooooo pumped to be able to capture!!

 

How cool! I've never seen newly hatched baby plecos. Congrats!

 

It is super cool! I never thought I'd get to see their development since they are always stuck in a dark cave! I wonder how many are up there with dad!!!

 

Oooh, they all look yellow! Or are they all born that color?

 

LOL I was going to say the same thing! IIRC though they take a while to develop their colour. Mostly all you can see if the yellow yolk

 

Here is a pic of my first dad with his babies....this was taken the day the first baby ventured out of the cave....which from what I have read takes place approx 1 week after hatching. So we may know very soon....
The mother was a brown long fin bn pleco. Clearly she had the albino gene recessively since the babies are half albino!

 

Uhhhh... Confused, did you breed the dad and daughter together?

 

Uhhhh... Confused, did you breed the dad and daughter together?

Yes. I did.

 

I know nothing about plecos but is that a thing? Won't it make deformed fry if even

 

It's a relatively common practice with many species.

Yes... inbreeding over and over can cause problems, but doing it once or twice doesn't harm anything.

 

The fry look really neat

 

They are so dang cute!!! They are already sucking to the sides like minI plecos. It's too bad that yolk sack is so yellow!! It's misleading! Lol
here they are this morning!

 

Haha so goofy looking like tadpoles

 

Glad to see they're still doing well! Those dang yellow yolk sacs are SUCH a tease!!

 

Glad to see they're still doing well! Those dang yellow yolk sacs are SUCH a tease!!

It is a MAJOR tease! LOL I hope they start showing their pigment, or lack of pigment, soon!!! I guess I DONT want to see any pigment!! LOL Oh the torture!
I can't even begin to imagine how many babies are up there with dad!! It is so fun to have this group that fell down to essentially fend for themselves! Watching the development process is so neat!!!

 

You know when you think about it if plecos were predators they would be the most terrifying thing.

 

You know when you think about it if plecos were predators they would be the most terrifying thing.

I've heard some scary stories about the large common plecos getting pretty nasty and predatory! Like attacking and sucking smaller fish to death. I haven't seen, or heard, of that sort of behavior with BN plecos though!

 

Just like a paper shredder sucking the juice out of em

 

It's called linebreeding and is used to fix traits that would otherwise be lost. It's why isolated populations, on islands for example, often have very different species than elsewhere because whatever genes got stranded there can become prominent just because of the degree of inbreeding. Yes, that can include diseases, but with careful management in a breeding program only the traits you want can be bred for

 

Interesting, did you hear about the problems with colored rice fish? The bred like one family together over and over till they got a orange color. At that point half the fish had deformed spines or fins and were all messed up. But that's very different than success with plecos.

 

Interesting, did you hear about the problems with colored rice fish? The bred like one family together over and over till they got a orange color. At that point half the fish had deformed spines or fins and were all messed up. But that's very different than success with plecos.

It is also very different than breeding a daughter back to her father ONE time. Pleco or not.

 

I know I was just saying some people go too far, you are doing a great job!

 

I know I was just saying some people go too far, you are doing a great job! ��

Thanks I hope my "linebreeding" project accomplishes what I am shooting for!!

Here is a freeze frame of a few of the babies incase anyone can't watch the video You can sort of make out their little eyeballs. It is fun to watch them suck on the walls in there. Especially since they are having to drag around that giant yolk sack! LOL

The angelfish, when they are freshly hatched wiggers, they stay stuck to whatever they are on thanks to a mucus of some kind that just allows them to stay stuck. But these little plecos are already sucking with their mouths! I didn't expect to see that right away!

Anyway, here's the freeze frame

 

I know I was just saying some people go too far, you are doing a great job!

Reputable breeders lay out a plan and don't take it too far. Any genetic problems in a line and they stop breeding from individuals that may carry the problem gene. I have a chinchilla who was given to me by a breeder on the understanding that I would never breed from her. She has no genetic problems herself but she would be physically endangered by giving birth so to ensure her safety the breeder chose to keep her unless she found someone who could be trusted never to breed her.

So, there are good breeders and bad breeders, and there are ways to tell them apart! Good breeders have a goal in their breeding program and work to better the breed/line/species and don't just breed for a single trait to the detriment of the animal's long-term well-being.

 

Good breeders have a goal in their breeding program and work to better the breed/line/species and don't just breed for a single trait to the detriment of the animal's long-term well-being.

I learned this first hand, the hard way, with my blue dwarf crayfish :-( It was almost 2 years ago now....they were my first breeding experience. My goal was to make them as blue as possible. They are naturally more gray than blue. I managed to get some dwarfs that were as stunning blue as the regular sized electric blue crayfish. But I did this by continuing to inbreed over and over. Breeding the bluest of the blue only for multiple generations.

Little did I know, I was making the line weaker and weaker to the point where they stopped breeding altogether. They are not meant to be bright blue, so I was busy trying to breed for a single trait and had no idea I was actually being a detriment to them.

Lesson learned for sure, but I still feel bad about it to this day. I was so happy at how blue I got them, but it was ultimately very selfish of me. Although..... it was more of an ignorance thing than a selfish thing. I truly didn't know better!

As a result I did a lot of research before going through with my plan to breed Blue Eye's back to his daughter. I wanted to make sure I wasn't harming anything and I am confident that I am not.

 

Update....so I am definitely seeing brown pigment on a lot of the baby plecos (the ones I can see anyway) But the problem is, due to the still very large and very yellow yolk sacks, I am having a hard time telling if they are ALL turning brown, or if there are some in the bundle that are not turning brown.
I AM SO NERVOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When I started this over a year ago...I thought it was a given that i'd have yellow ones. But now I am not so sure!