Bizarre Burn Mark On Rummy Nose Tetra?!

Jenoli42

Member
Hey team.

so we just got home late. I went to feed our established 165L tank. I froze. one of our rummy noses has a horrid black mark on its head... and our heater has turned black on the inside?! it's still working! temp is normal. I put my hand in. . Didn't get electrocuted ever when hearing light was on.

what? um. . if the heater blew why is it working?

the poor fish is eating normally & schooling normally. no other fish seem hurt.

we're mystified. pls help?




 

Jeffsglo

Member
I don’t think that’s s burn mark! I saw another post recently by someone. And it might be a disease. But can't recall what it was you might be able to google black spot on fishes head. And see what comes up. But I would not put your hand in any tank that has electricity that is live. Always turn off power please!!! You can kill yourself that way. Replace the heater as soon as possible.
 

sfsamm

Member
Absolutely replace the heater. Don't mess with those! As for the black head my guts say it's bacterial but gram positive or negative I'm unsure. I would wait until someone that's treated it chimes in. I'd also get the fish to a QT tank asap as of it is bacterial you don't want it spreading.

My order of business would be getting him to qt first then replacing the heater and neither would I dally around about.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
sfsamm said:
Absolutely replace the heater. Don't mess with those! As for the black head my guts say it's bacterial but gram positive or negative I'm unsure. I would wait until someone that's treated it chimes in. I'd also get the fish to a QT tank asap as of it is bacterial you don't want it spreading.

My order of business would be getting him to qt first then replacing the heater and neither would I dally around about.
Mate. I totally trust you. but... bear with me so I understand?

so... you're saying that the black mark which appeared out of nowhere, and the blackened heater which also appeared out of nowhere on the same day, are unrelated? surely that is the opposite of ockham's razor?

I'm not trying to avoid good advice but the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, right? meaning the two would be related?

it's after 10pm here & we discovered this after any tank heater supplier closed. so we will get a new heater tomorrow... I'm happy to return the fish currently in our QT at the same time & quarantine this one.

BUT. are you convinced these two very coincidental events aren't related?

parameters are perfect so where would a bacterial infection come from do you think? we haven't added new fish for 8 wks & we quarantined those we most recently added for 28 full days..?
 

2211Nighthawk

Member
As someone who gets a lot of burns (welder ) burns are not black like that. Plus, if a fish gets burned it’s usualy on their side from brushing up against it, not on the top of their head like that. I agree that it’s not a burn, but really bad timing.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
2211Nighthawk said:
As someone who gets a lot of burns (welder ) burns are not black like that. Plus, if a fish gets burned it’s usualy on their side from brushing up against it, not on the top of their head like that. I agree that it’s not a burn, but really bad timing.
yeah. my partner who is also an ex saw doctor & welder thought it was soot but I didn't want to touch the heater & it seems to be inside the glass...

we'll bag up the fish in our cursed QT tomorrow, transfer the black headed one into it & head to town to return the fish & get a new heater.

but what bacterial infection looks like that & what's the cause?!

Just for context dear FL people, here's why I'm reluctant to put anything into the QT... if it's not actually sick.

Help - 4 Dead Cardinals In Qt - Why?!?!?
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Its eye looks enlarged also.
 

sfsamm

Member
Jenoli42 said:
Mate. I totally trust you. but... bear with me so I understand?

so... you're saying that the black mark which appeared out of nowhere, and the blackened heater which also appeared out of nowhere on the same day, are unrelated? surely that is the opposite of ockham's razor?

I'm not trying to avoid good advice but the simplest explanation is usually the correct one, right? meaning the two would be related?
No offense taken lol at all but no I don't believe them to be related just a really no good tank day.

Now that said I could totally be wrong I saw this post while trying to return to sleep last night but I still think the same after a full sleep. I've been in the hobby long enough to know I will continue to make mistakes no matter what. Any discoloration like that though it's not a burn that I can say for certain, fish don't burn like that generally is a reddened area and often ends up missing scales. Unless maybe he was inside the heater? Lol it's more like a water scald on our hands, kinda takes the skin right off but if you grab a hot poker it'll blacken you where as if you touch a halogen light it just melts your skin... They get more of that scalded type reaction.

As for bacterial infections they make me super uneasy I hate them. I have always had the worst luck with them. I've learned more recently but I can't ID and I can't track which is which in gram positive or negative somehow it ties me in knots but.... One single other thought and maybe I jump to bacterial from the photo and you may be better able to tell in person is an injury. Like a bruise. They can break blood vessels under the skin and essentially bruise just like we do. Had he panicked when the heater popped and smashed into something he well coulda really racked himself on something and be bruised. That would be a no panic no meds situation.
 

mattgirl

Member
It actually looks like a bruise to me and the heater looks like it is close to being burned out. Please replace as soon as possible.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
Jeffsglo said:
I don’t think that’s s burn mark! I saw another post recently by someone. And it might be a disease. But can't recall what it was you might be able to google black spot on fishes head. And see what comes up. But I would not put your hand in any tank that has electricity that is live. Always turn off power please!!! You can kill yourself that way. Replace the heater as soon as possible.
I should clarify so you don't think I have a death wish.
I put my hand in to feed them, froze when I saw the black head, looked at the heater & saw it was blackened & light was on, & yanked my hand out immediately. but my hand was in there when the scary thing was on... and I thought that was worth noting.

mattgirl said:
It actually looks like a bruise to me and the heater looks like it is close to being burned out. Please replace as soon as possible.
yep. must woke up & checked tank - no change since last night. we're gonna have coffee & get into town straight away for a heater.

and because it's better to be safe than sorry, we'll return the rummies & put the bruised or sick fish in the QT like sfsamm wisely suggested...

thank you all

sfsamm said:
As for bacterial infections they make me super uneasy I hate them. I have always had the worst luck with them. I've learned more recently but I can't ID and I can't track which is which in gram positive or negative somehow it ties me in knots but.... One single other thought and maybe I jump to bacterial from the photo and you may be better able to tell in person is an injury. Like a bruise. They can break blood vessels under the skin and essentially bruise just like we do. Had he panicked when the heater popped and smashed into something he well coulda really racked himself on something and be bruised. That would be a no panic no meds situation.
this is the only disease I could find that affects freshwater tropical fish that has any match. .. although again no other symptoms (swims normally) besides the discoloration (and possibly a swollen eye?) ... which makes me lean toward bruising? wishful thinking?



here's a video from last night- took forever to upload because it's HD if you change YouTube settings btw. (it ate right after I stopped videoing of course)

 

sfsamm

Member
He really doesn't seem to be bothered and the others aren't treating him differently. Both good signs but I am not convinced one way or another on what the issue is. Bacterial is generally fairly quick in progressing and slow to recover from. It really does look like a bruise but it's both sides of his head and not just one... It's a toughie, I'm stumped. I would still err on the side of caution, it's better to be safe than sorry but honestly I'm not even 100% certain what I myself would do. Probably QT Mr sick and obviously replace the heater but I certainly wouldn't medicate just yet.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
sfsamm said:
He really doesn't seem to be bothered and the others aren't treating him differently. Both good signs but I am not convinced one way or another on what the issue is. Bacterial is generally fairly quick in progressing and slow to recover from. It really does look like a bruise but it's both sides of his head and not just one... It's a toughie, I'm stumped. I would still err on the side of caution, it's better to be safe than sorry but honestly I'm not even 100% certain what I myself would do. Probably QT Mr sick and obviously replace the heater but I certainly wouldn't medicate just yet.
thank you for being just as stumped as we are. seriously. it's somehow a relief lolz.

so. there are 3 "guinea pig" rummies in our "cursed" QT atm. I'm seriously concerned for this bruised rummy going into that tank for 2 reasons:

1. it may be cursed... or legit infected with some horrible disease I didn't get rid of with a vinegar 100% clean because I didn't bleach anything (that's the other thread I linked in this one)

2. I just added these rummies from the LFS like 3 days ago. they may have something.

so. what would you do?

A. bag up the new rummies & return to LFS. add suspect rummy to their water without pwc.

B. return rummies to lfs. 100% wc on QT before adding sick/ bruised rummy

C. just acclimate & add suspect rummy to QT with the other 3

Or some version of above?

obviously option B takes the longest meaning suspect rummy remains in community tank until I bag & 100% change... but is the most careful...

EDIT: if bacterial then fastest way to get him outta the community tank is option C.

2nd EDIT: we're gonna return the new rummies for their health & not do a pwc (but of course acclimate) when we add the suspect rummy

got a 150w heater on hold waiting for us at the lfs.

one last paranoid question before we return the rummies... will our suspect rummy get stressed to the point of ill health being alone in our QT?
 

mattgirl

Member
Jenoli42 said:
one last paranoid question before we return the rummies... will our suspect rummy get stressed to the point of ill health being alone in our QT?
That is a very good question. I think if it were me I would go ahead and keep the ones you were thinking about returning if you decide to move him so he won't be all alone. The move is going to be stressful enough and if he is all alone it may push the little guy over the edge. I know you are really finding yourself between a rock and a hard place but I am sure you will make the right decision.
 

sfsamm

Member
Assuming your qt is smaller than your other tanks. You can go either way honestly. It does risk the new rummies health but being smaller its easier to medicate. And he has the added bonus of friends. It's kind of a catch 22 because it may be a bruise and he is risking an illness from them as well... Your choice here, I could easily see myself doing either. But I wouldn't risk putting the new rummies in the existing tank.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
mattgirl said:
That is a very good question. I think if it were me I would go ahead and keep the ones you were thinking about returning if you decide to move him so he won't be all alone. The move is going to be stressful enough and if he is all alone it may push the little guy over the edge. I know you are really finding yourself between a rock and a hard place but I am sure you will make the right decision.
we agonized over this. In the end, he's in the QT alone & we caught him relatively easily (for the fish... pain in the bum for my partner).

I've returned the other 3 just minutes ago & have a new heater & a back up.

I'm totally not sure I made the right call. if it was just me, I probably would've put him in with the other 3. but my partner reminded me that's somewhat unfair to the other 3 (who were, ironically, doing better in our cursed QT)...

I really think it's a bruise but I'll inspect him better once I'm back home.

never a dull moment

sfsamm said:
Assuming your qt is smaller than your other tanks. You can go either way honestly. It does risk the new rummies health but being smaller its easier to medicate. And he has the added bonus of friends. It's kind of a catch 22 because it may be a bruise and he is risking an illness from them as well... Your choice here, I could easily see myself doing either. But I wouldn't risk putting the new rummies in the existing tank.
thanks mate. I just returned the new 3 to our lfs. all the staff were crowded around my phone and they agreed he just looks badly bruised... but that's because it doesn't look like anything else commonly known.

what could've bruised him? .... hmmmm...
 

sfsamm

Member
Jenoli42 said:
what could've bruised him? .... hmmmm...
That's exactly why I'm not sold on bruising. Usually it's one spot and it's his whole skull. It's a weird one. Since he's alone just be sure he has lots of places to hide as being alone that's what he'll want to do.
 

mattgirl

Member
This is definitely a hard one to know what to do. Is there anything in the main tank that he could have caught his head in? It is amazing the predicaments they can get themselves into and back out of. Hopefully if it is just a bruise he will soon be back to normal and he will soon get to go back home. Only time will tell.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
mattgirl said:
Is there anything in the main tank that he could have caught his head in? It is amazing the predicaments they can get themselves into and back out of. Hopefully if it is just a bruise he will soon be back to normal and he will soon get to go back home. Only time will tell.
not really? maybe he tried to follow a kuhlI under the helicopter & got stuck? then thrashed around to get his head unstuck? idk... but I'll keep you posted

btw, there was moisture & condensation inside the eheim heater. the entire front panel that has the temperature markings so you know where you're setting the heater at was opaque black.

I initially thought this meant the brand was rubbish but after seeing it continue to work without harming me or the fish I've decided that might be a safety feature we should be grateful for. ..

replaced with an aqua one 150w with a jebo 150w in the cabinet as back up.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
so... it could be the fact that there's no tank lighting in our QT but he looks slightly less black on one side of his head. we'll see. plenty of hiding spots sfsamm

used the flash for one photo because I didn't realise he was there! oops... he's fine.. tho I feel bad



 

Jeffsglo

Member
Jenoli42 said:
I should clarify so you don't think I have a death wish.
I put my hand in to feed them, froze when I saw the black head, looked at the heater & saw it was blackened & light was on, & yanked my hand out immediately. but my hand was in there when the scary thing was on... and I thought that was worth noting.
So sorry for your predicament!!! I was just saying. but not to insult you. that it’s easy to forget even when there is no problem with heaters. that we all should always turn power off to everything electric in water. No matter what, electricity is dangerous. When putting our hands in the tank.

I think you did the right thing. By QT the little guy. And taking back other fish. You have now isolated the problem fish. And can concentrate on fixing the problem. You will be able to add new fish. After you figure out what is going on. Keep us updated. I am hopeful you will have an answer soon.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
Jeffsglo said:
So sorry for your predicament!!! I was just saying. but not to insult you. that it’s easy to forget even when there is no problem with heaters. that we all should always turn power off to everything electric in water. No matter what, electricity is dangerous. When putting our hands in the tank.

I think you did the right thing. By QT the little guy. And taking back other fish. You have now isolated the problem fish. And can concentrate on fixing the problem. You will be able to add new fish. After you figure out what is going on. Keep us updated. I am hopeful you will have an answer soon.
mate I'm totally not easily offended & I didn't think your comment was made out of anything but concern

thanks for the vote of confidence, too... we're keeping an eye on another rummy that had always been naturally grey-er than others but now I'm noticing a darker mark on one side. grrr dunno if it's always been there & I'm just noticing because I'm keeping an eye on them or... worse.

sigh.

anyway. fingers crossed!! thank you again btw
 

Jeffsglo

Member
Ok, I googled what is black spot on my rummys head. And a link to another forum came up. It was a thread. I read it. And found out what your tummy might have is black ich. It can be treated with Kordon ich attack. I don’t recall that you have a test kit? API test kit for fresh water is the best. Let us know test results of water. Water changes and testing water every week is a must. Even if you get the same results. And nothing is wrong. How often do you do water change? And how much water? Do yo change filter? And how often? And what kind of filter. Where do you get your water from? Well water? Or else where? Do you treat New water with seachem prime with every water change? Test for ph ammonia nitrites nitrates have you noticed anything different with water? Sludge around filter? What kinda food do you feed fish? And how much? How often? When you QT only have bare tank. No substrate. Have s hiding place for QT fish. And regular community tank. What temperature do you keep water at? I know this is a lot of questions. But will help in determining problem. Black ich? Or parasites?
 
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Jenoli42

Member
Jeffsglo said:
Ok, I googled what is black spot on my rummys head. And a link to another forum came up. It was a thread. I read it. And found out what your tummy might have is black ich. It can be treated with Kordon ich attack. I don’t recall that you have a test kit? API test kit for fresh water is the best. Let us know test results of water. Water changes and testing water every week is a must. Even if you get the same results. And nothing is wrong. How often do you do water change? And how much water? Do yo change filter? And how often? And what kind of filter. Where do you get your water from? Well water? Or else where? Do you treat New water with seachem prime with every water change? Test for ph ammonia nitrites nitrates have you noticed anything different with water? Sludge around filter? What kinda food do you feed fish? And how much? How often? When you QT only have bare tank. No substrate. Have s hiding place for QT fish. And regular community tank. What temperature do you keep water at? I know this is a lot of questions. But will help in determining problem. Black ich? Or parasites?
hey thanks for looking that up but I'm pretty skeptical about parasites or black ich given or quarantine & maintenance routine.

phew! heaps of questions mate.

yes I have the apI kit. I test all our 4 tanks at least once a week if not daily.

the parameters of the 165L the school has been in for over 2.5 months: 0,0,7.5. pH 7.5. kH 2.8º. gH 7º. temp 25-26ºC

we do weekly pwc's of between 25-40%.

we're on rainwater. no chlorine. no ammonia. no nitrite. no nitrate. no kH. no gH. no need for prime.

but I still dose prime with every change because we gravel vac 20-25% weekly.

we have an internal 1000LPH filter AND an external EheI'm 2213 canister. we rinse media of one every other month in old tank water (e.g., we rinse media monthly but only for one filter every month). there's some sludge but that's normal.

in our 21L QT, we don't have substrate and the photos show you the hiding spots (my previous post).

main tank - we feed a pinch of omega one flakes every morning except on fasting day once a week. we feed 2/3 tab jbl novo every evening & 1/2 pleco pellet for pleco & snail. bloodworms as a treat once a week. drift wood & greens twice a week for pleco.

was that everything?

also. . isn't black ich salt water only?
 

Jeffsglo

Member
Well that sounds awesome!!! You are definitely doing the right stuff. When I googled rummys. That’s when it said could be black ich or parasites. But if you QT the fish. You should see if it gets worse. And at least not get your community tank sick. I sure hope your fish are ok. It’s got to be scary when something like this happens.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
Jeffsglo said:
Well that sounds awesome!!! You are definitely doing the right stuff. When I googled rummys. That’s when it said could be black ich or parasites. But if you QT the fish. You should see if it gets worse. And at least not get your community tank sick. I sure hope your fish are ok. It’s got to be scary when something like this happens.
thanks so much for taking the time to research. I really appreciate it.

so odd... I googled heaps and barely anything came up. I did Google black ich again just in case because Murphy's Law means we'd get something ridiculously rare lol.

the reason I'm so concerned is because we take all the precautions to avoid disease, have established tanks & pristine water & quarantine all new critters for 28 days minimum.

the biggest threat is probably columnaris which is why I'm taking the suggestion of bacterial infection so seriously.

we'll see how they are in the morning
 

Jeffsglo

Member
Jenoli42 said:
thanks so much for taking the time to research. I really appreciate it.

so odd... I googled heaps and barely anything came up. I did Google black ich again just in case because Murphy's Law means we'd get something ridiculously rare lol.

the reason I'm so concerned is because we take all the precautions to avoid disease, have established tanks & pristine water & quarantine all new critters for 28 days minimum.

the biggest threat is probably columnaris which is why I'm taking the suggestion of bacterial infection so seriously.

we'll see how they are in the morning
Well you are welcome I just love this forum. Everyone helps each other out. I am no expert. But like to help. I just received my new 55 gallon starter kit from walmart Thursday. But am out of town. So I will be setting up the new stand. And securing it to the wall. ( I have a 6 and 7 yr old). Haha. And then cycling with my new 12 glow fish Zebra Danios. Then I might add the 12 glow fish tiger barbs at same time, or QT them 6 at a time. We’ll see, because I have my daughters 10 gallon tank has two Zebra danios. And my son has 1 glow fish tiger barb. So I will have three tanks for a bit. And hope I don’t lose any. But I know how I would/will feel if mine get sick or have a problem. Hope you figure this out.
 

mattgirl

Member
Jenoli42 said:
not really? maybe he tried to follow a kuhlI under the helicopter & got stuck? then thrashed around to get his head unstuck? idk... but I'll keep you posted

btw, there was moisture & condensation inside the eheim heater. the entire front panel that has the temperature markings so you know where you're setting the heater at was opaque black.

I initially thought this meant the brand was rubbish but after seeing it continue to work without harming me or the fish I've decided that might be a safety feature we should be grateful for. ..

replaced with an aqua one 150w with a jebo 150w in the cabinet as back up.
I really hope he is actually looking better this morning and it was just a bruise. You have had more than your share of fishy troubles and it would be wonderful if this one was something we could actually find the answer to and he will soon be back to his beautiful self.

This is a perfect example of why I won't fully submerge a heater even if it is designed to do so. One has to trust that the seal will stay sealed. I don't trust it. It doesn't take much moisture to cause a short in an electrical appliance. Maybe I am overly cautious but in all the years I have kept tanks I've never gotten moisture in one.

The heater on my 55 claims to be fully submersible but I still keep the top out of the water. It works perfectly well and keeps my tank at a steady temp with the top of it out of the water, so being well above the tanks water line, no chance of water getting in there. For me it is just one less thing to have to worry about.

I was taking a close look at the photos you posted this morning. In the first one, Am I seeing where someone ran a silicone bead around the top of the bottom trim? Is this the borrowed QT?

Since we are still trying to find out why you are losing fish in only this tank I wonder if it is at all possible whomever added the silicone may have also added some to the inside seams and maybe didn't use the right silicone. Just a thought.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
mattgirl said:
I really hope he is actually looking better this morning and it was just a bruise. You have had more than your share of fishy troubles and it would be wonderful if this one was something we could actually find the answer to and he will soon be back to his beautiful self.
Thanks mate He looks ok this morning but I can't really tell if the dark patch is better because I don't want to stress him out with lights.... it's still there so I figure I'll wait until it's hard to see or something gets worse to put lights on.

he's not eating tho

Most of the troubles have either been through our ignorance before this forum or that cursed QT... the stuff we bring onto ourselves I'm ok with lol

mattgirl said:
I was taking a close look at the photos you posted this morning. In the first one, Am I seeing where someone ran a silicone bead around the top of the bottom trim? Is this the borrowed QT?
what? where? lol... are you sure you're not seeing the air bubbles catching lights?

this is the QT we bought brand new from our lfs in mid December. tbf the borrowed ones have been perfect.

I've resigned myself to the fact that the cursed QT may kill this bruised or sick fish. the part I'm worried about is what happened in our established OG tank to lead to this rummy looking like that. I have no idea.... and we have a pair of cockatoos that arrive this week to be quarantined & then added....
 

mattgirl

Member
what? where? lol... are you sure you're not seeing the air bubbles catching lights?
oops, maybe I am seeing things. Back on post #19, the first photo. it looks like a silicone bead along the upper edge of the bottom black frame. Sometime it is very difficult to make out what I am seeing (or not seeing) I am still trying to figure out why this tank is causing deaths. I must have not realized or just forgot you said it is the new one.

I know your biggest concern right now is how this happened. I am right there with you in hoping it is just a bruise that will heal. I imagine you are stressed and stumped when things like this happen when y'all are doing everything possible to make sure your water pets stay safe and healthy.
 
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Jenoli42

Member
mattgirl said:
oops, maybe I am seeing things. Back on post #19, the first photo. it looks like a silicone bead along the upper edge of the bottom black frame. Sometime it is very difficult to make out what I am seeing (or not seeing) I am still trying to figure out why this tank is causing deaths. I must have not realized or just forgot you said it is the new one.

I know your biggest concern right now is how this happened. I am right there with you in hoping it is just a bruise that will heal. I imagine you are stressed and stumped when things like this happen when y'all are doing everything possible to make sure your water pets stay safe and healthy.
I think that's just crusty fish food stuck between the frame & the glass... how dirty and slack does that make me sound?! ops:

you've been so helpful no worries about forgetting details... you help so many I don't expect anyone but me to know those things

we are stumped. mostly frustrated because we're at the stage of knowing what having a worry free established tank feels like only to have what seems like weekly dramas that make us question ourselves. so instead of enjoying them we go back to watching for problems. sigh.

also. I love solving mysteries and I haven't solved this one yet so my brain is obsessing. o_O
 
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Jenoli42

Member
hmmmm... I'm watching the OG tank waiting for test results. I see what is either a male rummy chasing a female to mate or nippiness because the school is at 7 with one in QT. I haven't seen this before with these fish.

surely the bruise isn't from some ridiculous aggression between males? that's simply not in the nature of these tetras, right?

I'm over thinking this aren't i?
 

mattgirl

Member
Jenoli42 said:
hmmmm... I'm watching the OG tank waiting for test results. I see what is either a male rummy chasing a female to mate or nippiness because the school is at 7 with one in QT. I haven't seen this before with these fish.

surely the bruise isn't from some ridiculous aggression between males? that's simply not in the nature of these tetras, right?

I'm over thinking this aren't i?
I have come to realize that no one can predict what any of them are going to do or how much damage they can do to each other.

Up until a few weeks ago I would have sworn that neon tetras never get aggressive but mine have proven me wrong. One of mine, one of 8 and the smallest one decided to go postal and was chasing all of the others.

Fortunately no one was hurt and he soon settled down but it opened up my eyes to the fact that even these little bitty fish sometimes get overly rowdy. I have always kept neon tetras and this is the first time I have ever seen one get aggressive.
 

sfsamm

Member
Jenoli42 said:
hmmmm... I'm watching the OG tank waiting for test results. I see what is either a male rummy chasing a female to mate or nippiness because the school is at 7 with one in QT. I haven't seen this before with these fish.

surely the bruise isn't from some ridiculous aggression between males? that's simply not in the nature of these tetras, right?

I'm over thinking this aren't i?
Fish can be weird. My son's tank had the male platy turn serial a couple months back. Plenty of females but he started harassing them one at a time until they died. After two he went to a different tank, and promptly went into a motionless state and passed two days later. Couldn't tell you what happened but all the rest are fine since Mr homicide moved out.... And I currently have a female Kribensis whose territorial behavior could rival some of the more aggressive African rift lake fish. I just got her a new tank I'll be setting up over the next few weeks, she is more aggressive than I've seen them when they had fry in the past, total jerk lol

SOOOooo I wouldn't rule it out entirely, but the issue may resolve itself as quickly as it started which is what I generally see in schooling fish. And to be completely honest I don't subscribe to the idea certain schools must have odd/even numbers make a difference just having enough fish in total to disperse aggression amongst the fish. Sometimes it seems that one boy or girl gets a little big for their britches and eventually they get knocked back down a peg. Some medications can cause excitement in fish as well so if you are medicating or feeding medicated foods be aware of that possibility.

How's your little solo dude doing today?
 
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Jenoli42

Member
sfsamm said:
Fish can be weird. My son's tank had the male platy turn serial a couple months back.....
How's your little solo dude doing today?
thanks for asking

I'm not convinced he's eating but he might have last night. was a bit more active at feeding time. mostly swims on autopilot in one spot looking lost.

he needs mates but his head isn't any better or worse. still the same. I'll try to get a photo.

it makes me sad that he's in there alone but I'm glad his symptoms haven't spread. . yet. .. fingers crossed
 
  • Thread Starter

Jenoli42

Member
he moved around a bit when I tried to feed him... still didn't see him actually eat.


 

sfsamm

Member
It's alright if he doesn't eat he's stressed from the move and not having friends. I wouldn't in this circumstance count it as a symptom of illness. Realistically fish can go several days without eating. If he hasn't eaten or improved in a week's time I'd try tempting him with some frozen yummies presoaked in a bit of garlic. But for now I would say the not eating is simply because he's insecure. Hiding is a good sign as well since he doesn't have friends to make him confident. It may help him feel a bit better to leave lights off except for a couple hours a day, at least for his stress level.
 
  • Thread Starter

Jenoli42

Member
sfsamm said:
It's alright if he doesn't eat he's stressed from the move and not having friends. I wouldn't in this circumstance count it as a symptom of illness. Realistically fish can go several days without eating. If he hasn't eaten or improved in a week's time I'd try tempting him with some frozen yummies presoaked in a bit of garlic. But for now I would say the not eating is simply because he's insecure. Hiding is a good sign as well since he doesn't have friends to make him confident. It may help him feel a bit better to leave lights off except for a couple hours a day, at least for his stress level.
thanks...I'm cautiously optimistic.

the lights aren't even plugged in for either of our QTs. can't turn them on lolz
 
  • Thread Starter

Jenoli42

Member
update team!

so. bruised rummy face is alive & doing better! the tank cannot be cursed *knocks on wood superstitiously* yusss. (or the vinegar 100% clean broke the curse)

the bruise seems to be fading & bruise face is acting less stressy.

I think I've seen hin eat when I'm not near the tank.

so. how long for QT? if it is bacterial then what am I looking for? the blackness isn't spreading & aside from poor eating habits from being by itself I can't see any other signs of disease.

the others in our main tank are unchanged. one has slight dark mark on its side but that may always have been there & isn't getting worse
 

bitseriously

Member
Well, if it really is a bruise (I like bruise face, it sounds so tough), and you're satisfied that it's not a primary pathogen, then your quarantine is largely for monitoring and observation, and you can return to tank at your earliest.
The fact that you're seeing an improvement without having medicated supports the injury theory over a primary pathogen.
I'm of the opinion that for a physical injury, actively improving = all better, at least in the sense that the fish's immune system has the upper hand, and the risk of a secondary infection is very low.
That said, I'd wait until you are more sure that it's eating well and normally.
Just my $0.02.
 
  • Thread Starter

Jenoli42

Member
bitseriously said:
Well, if it really is a bruise (I like bruise face, it sounds so tough), and you're satisfied that it's not a primary pathogen, then your quarantine is largely for monitoring and observation, and you can return to tank at your earliest.
The fact that you're seeing an improvement without having medicated supports the injury theory over a primary pathogen.
I'm of the opinion that for a physical injury, actively improving = all better, at least in the sense that the fish's immune system has the upper hand, and the risk of a secondary infection is very low.
That said, I'd wait until you are more sure that it's eating well and normally.
Just my $0.02.
thanks agreed.

I'm thinking at least a full week in QT. we're not in any rush except to avoid any heath issues with any stress of being alone.
 
  • Thread Starter

Jenoli42

Member
he's definitely better. hardly any darkness. active. seems bored & cramped. good signs.
 

sfsamm

Member
That is quite good news!
 
  • Thread Starter

Jenoli42

Member
sfsamm said:
That is quite good news!
still can't say he's eating tho
 

sfsamm

Member
Jenoli42 said:
still can't say he's eating tho
That maybe because he's on his own though. If he's not getting very thin (which he shouldn't be even if he's not eating, not yet anyway) than I wouldn't be concerned. He'll probably be a pig when he gets his friends back lol
 
  • Thread Starter

Jenoli42

Member
We added bruised face back to his home tank tonight. Hope to see him eating with the others at feeding time. will take a photo once I've turned lights back on.
 

DoubleDutch

Member
well done !
 
  • Thread Starter

Jenoli42

Member
Poo!! We added bruise face back on Saturday. Could barely tell which one he was.

Tonight's Monday in NZ. Look!! what's this little bugger doing to himself?! it's only on one side of its head... bruise? chemical burn?

This morning: 0,0 ammonia, nitrite

yesterday 90 mins after pwc: 0,0,10 (includes nitrate). pH 7.3. kH 3. gH 4. temp 25-26ºc
 

sfsamm

Member
I have never see something like that! Already? Lol little guy hasn't learned not to stick his head places it doesn't belong has he! How strange!
 
  • Thread Starter

Jenoli42

Member
sfsamm said:
I have never see something like that! Already? Lol little guy hasn't learned not to stick his head places it doesn't belong has he! How strange!
I know! I'm scratching my head... *confused*
 

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