Bizaliz3’s Angelfish Breeding Journal :-) - Page 62

JLeeM

Member
bizaliz3 said:
I am officially the crazy angelfish lady. Haha!!! (Not that you all didn't know that already lol)

I started my big thigh tattoo of 2 angelfish. Its only the outline so far....because photo realism tattoos are time consuming!!

I've been breeding angelfish for around 5 years now. And there is no sign of me slowing down. Its clearly not just a "phase" because I still have years and years worth of goals. And im obsessed!! Haha

Anyway...I wanted another tattoo. And angelfish seemed very fitting. I found an incredible photo realism artist and I cannot wait to see the finished product in 3 weeks when we can finish it!!

I didnt really want to share the rough outline....because its rough!!! Lol and it does not give any indication of how amazing the final product will be. But...im too excited!!!! So here it is.....the background will be shaded. Not just lines. And the angelfish are very very unfinished! So don't judge yet!!!


Pop quiz....who can name the top fish in the tattoo. Lol if you've been following this thread long enough, you might recognize her!! Lol
Looking good already! I remember when you were talking about wanting this. I can also name the fish.
 

JLeeM

Member
On a side note, how is the Bulgarian spawn doing?
 
  • Thread Starter

bizaliz3

Member
FinalFins said:
Altums are awesome, good luck with them. Where did you get them? Judging on side from image I would assume you may have gotten them as tankbred?
I missed a couple posts. Sorry
Actually believe it or not, my LFS insists those baby altums are wild caught. I assumed tank bred as well. Especially since they were doing well in tap water, vs RO. And their small size of course. But unless the supplier lied to my LFS....they are wild caught. and why would the supplier lie about that? tank bred would be more valuable in my opinion. So why not disclose that if it were true.

Anyway, for the record, it has been over a month since I got them and all 5 are doing excellent!!! I am so happy about that! YAY!

JLeeM said:
On a side note, how is the Bulgarian spawn doing?
They are doing excellent! They are about 4 weeks old. They still don't look like sealpoints yet...which I find odd. But They are still very young!! The parents have not spawned a 2nd time, so that is frustrating. But ya, these babies will be upgraded from the 10g to a 30g this weekend. And eventually they will fill up a 75g. I can't wait! The next goal is a batch with 50% or 100% double dark sealpoints. This batch is 100% single dark sealpoints.

tfreema said:
Great to see an update!! You have come a long way and have some really exciting breeding lines to work with.
Thank you!! I am not quite sure how many old-schoolers are still following this. So I like to give updates every once in a while. lol I still think it would be fun if I could find a way to print out this entire thread and keep it as a personal journal for memory sake. Maybe there is a way? I don't know. Its still such a bummer that SOOO many photos were lost from the earlier parts of the journal/thread.

Anyway, thanks for watching and commenting! I appreciate it!!
 

JLeeM

Member
bizaliz3 I have a question for you about genetics. I have been looking into the bulgarian greens, or seal points. From my understanding, they are either a DD (double black) or a Dd (black lace) with a new and additional gene for the body to be white. I have been looking for a black lace male in particular to go with a female I already have. So, if I were to get a bulgarian green with the lighter fins, suggesting it's a Dd, and they were to breed with an angelfish without the new gene, would the offspring present like it was a regular black lace breeding? I understand that there is still a lot of unknowns about the "green" gene, but I got to wondering. Thought I would ask.
 
  • Thread Starter

bizaliz3

Member
JLeeM said:
bizaliz3 I have a question for you about genetics. I have been looking into the bulgarian greens, or seal points. From my understanding, they are either a DD (double black) or a Dd (black lace) with a new and additional gene for the body to be white. I have been looking for a black lace male in particular to go with a female I already have. So, if I were to get a bulgarian green with the lighter fins, suggesting it's a Dd, and they were to breed with an angelfish without the new gene, would the offspring present like it was a regular black lace breeding? I understand that there is still a lot of unknowns about the "green" gene, but I got to wondering. Thought I would ask.
OH MY GOSH! Thank you for asking! You know how much I LOVE LOVE LOVE talking angelfish genetics!! HAHA!!!

So...You are on the right track. First thing I will point out is a black lace is D/+. And a double dark is D/D. There is no lower case "d" in their genetics. (the "+" represents the wild silver gene.) So its is essentially a single dark and a double dark.

And just to clarify....the sealpoints are just one phenotype of Bulgarian green. They don't have to have dark fins, or a dark gene to be a Bulgarian. (but they do have to have a dark gene and dark fins to be a Bulgarian SEALPOINT). And yes, the double darks will have darker fins than the single darks, but the single darks will still have pretty dark fins.

If it is a Bulgarian green with NO dark gene at ALL, they have fins that are the same shade as a common silver. But the body is PURE white. So to the untrained eye, they look a lot like a regular platinum. But if you look close they will have grey-ish fins that come and go with mood just like the bars on a silver!! Sometimes the fins are white, sometimes the fins are grey. The reason for this is, they are not homozygous for gold (like a platinum is) so they are essentially a silver with no stripes and white body. And silvers lighten and darken with mood. They will often have red eyes like a silver (not like an albino...they will have a black pupil and red iris like the common silvers can) So...the red irises and the fins that can turn a grey color with mood change.....are how you tell it is a platinum BULGARIAN vs a regular platinum. The creator of the Bulgarian green gene named them "New Platinum" but I feel that is too confusing. "look at my new platinum!" haha! People won't realize that the "new" is part of the phenotype name in that case. They will just think it is a new fish to the person. So I choose to call them platinum Bulgarians.

Anyway, that last one is the one that took me a minute to understand. Why did the ones with NO dark gene still get fins with some darker pigment??? Well....Look at a common silver! They have dark in their fins. And that is what a Bulgarian with no dark gene is!! A silver with a pure white body. They are not platinums (which are homozygous for gold and would have no dark in the fins)

So back to your original question.....the Bulgarian green gene is recessive. Meaning the fish must have two genes to express. So if you cross a Bulgarian with a regular black lace, it will take a 2nd generation to get true Bulgarians. Either by breeding the siblings, or breeding one of the babies back to their Bulgarian parent. Then you will get a portion of homozygous Bulgarians. (25% if you do siblings and 50% if you do child back to parent)

I hope that helps!! keep the genetic questions coming!! HAHA
 

JLeeM

Member
bizaliz3 said:
OH MY GOSH! Thank you for asking! You know how much I LOVE LOVE LOVE talking angelfish genetics!! HAHA!!!

So...You are on the right track. First thing I will point out is a black lace is D/+. And a double dark is D/D. There is no lower case "d" in their genetics. (the "+" represents the wild silver gene.) So its is essentially a single dark and a double dark.

And just to clarify....the sealpoints are just one phenotype of Bulgarian green. They don't have to have dark fins, or a dark gene to be a Bulgarian. (but they do have to have a dark gene and dark fins to be a Bulgarian SEALPOINT). And yes, the double darks will have darker fins than the single darks, but the single darks will still have pretty dark fins.

If it is a Bulgarian green with NO dark gene at ALL, they have fins that are the same shade as a common silver. But the body is PURE white. So to the untrained eye, they look a lot like a regular platinum. But if you look close they will have grey-ish fins that come and go with mood just like the bars on a silver!! Sometimes the fins are white, sometimes the fins are grey. The reason for this is, they are not homozygous for gold (like a platinum is) so they are essentially a silver with no stripes and white body. And silvers lighten and darken with mood. They will often have red eyes like a silver (not like an albino...they will have a black pupil and red iris like the common silvers can) So...the red irises and the fins that can turn a grey color with mood change.....are how you tell it is a platinum BULGARIAN vs a regular platinum. The creator of the Bulgarian green gene named them "New Platinum" but I feel that is too confusing. "look at my new platinum!" haha! People won't realize that the "new" is part of the phenotype name in that case. They will just think it is a new fish to the person. So I choose to call them platinum Bulgarians.

Anyway, that last one is the one that took me a minute to understand. Why did the ones with NO dark gene still get fins with some darker pigment??? Well....Look at a common silver! They have dark in their fins. And that is what a Bulgarian with no dark gene is!! A silver with a pure white body. They are not platinums (which are homozygous for gold and would have no dark in the fins)

So back to your original question.....the Bulgarian green gene is recessive. Meaning the fish must have two genes to express. So if you cross a Bulgarian with a regular black lace, it will take a 2nd generation to get true Bulgarians. Either by breeding the siblings, or breeding one of the babies back to their Bulgarian parent. Then you will get a portion of homozygous Bulgarians. (25% if you do siblings and 50% if you do child back to parent)

I hope that helps!! keep the genetic questions coming!! HAHA
Holy crow there's a lot to that! lol. It actually makes a lot of sense though. You explained that very well, and I understand better why some look so different in the body now. Thank you!

I got to wondering because I've decided that if I do end up getting a new male for my female marble, I would like another black lace like her old mate. That gives more variety if there are any fry. Then I said....hold up....and you know the rest. lol.
 

jake37

Member
Can you add a picture of one of those 'white' BULGARIAN
 
  • Thread Starter

bizaliz3

Member
jake37 said:
Can you add a picture of one of those 'white' BULGARIAN
Sure!! Here is one.
 

jake37

Member
give me give me give me

Nice fish but it has a bit of red in the eye. Does it need eye drops ?

bizaliz3 said:
Sure!! Here is one.
 
  • Thread Starter

bizaliz3

Member
jake37 said:
give me give me give me

Nice fish but it has a bit of red in the eye. Does it need eye drops ?
Haha! The eyes are fine. It's natural coloring!

Worth mentioning...this one is also homozygous for Philippine blue. But it has no gold genes (which are required in a double dose to make a classic platinum) so its the Bulgarian green gene removing all the body pigment. The Philippine blue genes might be making it a whiter white. But I don't know for sure. I am finding most of the Bulgarian sealpoints that made their way to the USA over the last year also carry blue genes. A Bulgarian sealpoint without blue genes might be more off-white. I would have to confirm that though...

Both batches I got (different suppliers) were homozygous for Philippine blue in addition to being homozygous for Bulgarian green.
 

JLeeM

Member
I'm glad I'm not the one trying to explain all this.
 
  • Thread Starter

bizaliz3

Member
The finished product!!

 
  • Moderator

Coradee

Moderator
Member
Now I’m not a great lover of tattoos but I have to say that’s quite impressive, the artist really did the angels justice
 

NoahLikesFish

Member
This inspired me to want angelfish
 
  • Thread Starter

bizaliz3

Member
Coradee said:
Now I’m not a great lover of tattoos but I have to say that’s quite impressive, the artist really did the angels justice
Thanks coradee!! I made sure to do my research and find a really good artist. Most tattoos I've seen of angelfish are pretty cheesy looking. I wanted something realistic and not cartoon-y. I think he did excellent!!

NoahLikesFish said:
This inspired me to want angelfish
The thread or the tattoo?? Lol

Angelfish are awesome fish! I'm a little obsessed with them incase you couldn't tell!! Haha
 
  • Moderator

Coradee

Moderator
Member
bizaliz3 said:
Angelfish are awesome fish! I'm a little obsessed with them incase you couldn't tell!! Haha
Really? I’d never have guessed hope you & all your angels are keeping well.
 

Katie13

Member
Wow, love it Biz! Makes me excited since I’m currently waiting to pick up a new 50g to get back into breeding Angels!
 

DioAquatics

Member
That is some impressive ink! I absolutely love when tattoos look realistic and that looks phenomenal. Great pick on the artist and subjects for the tattoo.
I made sure to do my research before I got my roses tattooed for the same reasons you did, didn’t want a cartoony rose
 

aoiumi

Member
The tattoo looks wonderful! What fry do you have right now?
 

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