Bizaliz3’s Angelfish Breeding Journal :-)

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bizaliz3

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KingD said:
Your angels are gorgeous biz!
Now that my fishroom is close to being ready for fish, I’m thinking of doing angels in one of the 40B!
I’ll have to look through your pictures to see which color type I like most and order women
Thank you!! :) All my current juveniles, not just the platinums, have me so proud. I have never been so proud of my fish before. It wasn't easy. I have been giving them water changes every two days for the last couple months and DAILY water changes for the first few months! The platinums above are 6 months old and still getting water changes every other day.

They grow so much faster with frequent water changes, their fins are much stronger AND...drum roll please....I think the pearlscale trait is also very much controlled by growth rate and water quality!!! (but I will get to that in a second)

Many people only do daily water changes for the first month or so. And that used to be me. But when I continued to get bent dorsals on veil tail angels, I was DETERMINED to not let that happen again. So with two big batches of veil tails being born in my care 4-5 months ago, I was not about to let a single dorsal bend!!! So I have spent every single lunch break and every single evening for the last 6 months doing water changes on grow out tanks (the baby rams needed them too) It has been EXHAUSTING. But the results are TOTALLY WORTH IT!! Heck, my rams are only 4 months old and I had two of them spawn in the grow out tank!!!

What it boils down to for fin quality, in my experience, is nitrates. My water was always zero ammonia and zero nitrites, so I could never understand why the fins were bending when everyone said it is water quality related and I thought my water quality was great!! But the nitrates were higher than they should be. And this is because I was growing them out with pleco babies. Big mistake!!

With that being said, my 3 current batches of 4-6 month old babies were grown out with no plecos in their tank and daily water changes for at least the first 2 months. Followed by every other day changes after that. And I got no bends...and the fins on my veil tails are SPECTACULAR!!!! It is not easy to get a super veil angelfish to have stellar fins. This is why the majority of SUPER-veil angels have tattered and droopy fins.

ANYWAY, so then I was blessed with another result of the extra TLC....PEARLSCALES!!!!!!!!!!! For those who have followed my thread from the beginning, you will know why that is SUCH a big deal!! My theory now, is that the expression of pearls has to do with growth rate. Not necessarily water quality. (granted the better water quality resulted in the faster growth rate so....) Because these fish have grown much faster than my previous batches of angels. And it is the first time I ever got pearlscales to express in angels I am raising.

In summary, daily water changes are magic!! They make stellar fins, top notch pearlscales, faster growth rate and great body shape! Its not that this is news or anything.....we all know that fry need pristine water to develop well. But At the same time, we forget that the fry stage is really several months. Not just the first month. Another thing I changed was frequency of feedings. I would feed them a LOT during the first month or so, but after that, I would naturally revert to twice a day. This time around, I have continued to feed them 4-5 times per day even at 5-6 months old!! That would be another thing that has likely sped up the growth rate compared to previous spawns.

There is really something to be said about growing out the fish fast and how that affects their development. The slower they grow, the less quality they are overall. Even if they reach full adult size and are not stunted or anything, I still think that the faster they grow during the first 4 months, the higher quality they are.

Ramble ramble ramble. Just thinking out loud and thought some folks may find my conclusions interesting. LOL
 

DioAquatics

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Wow you definitely put a lot of work into making sure those angels had perfect water for the absolute best growth. You did an amazing job!

With the information you just blessed me with, I’ll make sure to keep pristine water for the best fins on my soon to be angels lol
 
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bizaliz3

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So just a fun bit of info.
A pearlscale blusher only gets visible pearls on its patches!

Here is a young paraiba pearlscale. All the same fish. I think its really neat!

It has much less patching on it's right side.
20190626_141438.jpg
20190626_134443.jpg
20190626_134426.jpg
 

JLeeM

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bizaliz3 said:
So just a fun bit of info.
A pearlscale blusher only gets visible pearls on its patches!

Here is a young paraiba pearlscale. All the same fish. I think its really neat!

It has much less patching on it's right side.
20190626_141438.jpg
20190626_134443.jpg
20190626_134426.jpg
That's an interesting little oddity.
 

tfreema

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Where have you been Biz?
 

clovervalley

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Do you use live plants to help keep the nitrates down as well? I’m fascinated by this whole process!
 
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bizaliz3

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Here I am tfreema!! Lol

How about a Teaching moment!!!

How do you tell the difference between a gold marble and a koi? It's all in the dorsal. The koi has no horizontal striations like the gold marble. Heres a great example.

20190627_091837.jpg


Next...how do you tell if a fish has a zebra gene if it has no stripes (like a clown or a smokey zebra for instance) again...its the dorsal. The zebra gene alters the pattern in the dorsal. Rather than perfect horizontal striations...the dorsal will have a different kind of pattern if there is a zebra gene.
Like this
20190627_093553.jpg


Just for fun!
 

tfreema

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That helps with a lot of confusion many have! Great information.
 

JLeeM

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bizaliz3 said:
Here I am tfreema!! Lol

How about a Teaching moment!!!

How do you tell the difference between a gold marble and a koi? It's all in the dorsal. The koi has no horizontal striations like the gold marble. Heres a great example.

20190627_091837.jpg


Next...how do you tell if a fish has a zebra gene if it has no stripes (like a clown or a smokey zebra for instance) again...its the dorsal. The zebra gene alters the pattern in the dorsal. Rather than perfect horizontal striations...the dorsal will have a different kind of pattern if there is a zebra gene.
Like this
20190627_093553.jpg


Just for fun!
So what does that make one like this exactly? Meet Iris. She has a hint of yellow/gold but only on the dorsal and forehead area (why we called her Iris). The rest is obviously black and white. She also has the horizontal striations. So is this enough to call her a gold marble?
IMG_20190505_213827725.jpg
 
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bizaliz3

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JLeeM said:
So what does that make one like this exactly? Meet Iris. She has a hint of yellow/gold but only on the dorsal and forehead area (why we called her Iris). The rest is obviously black and white. She also has the horizontal striations. So is this enough to call her a gold marble?
IMG_20190505_213827725.jpg
I'd probably say marble rather than gold marble. Due to the amount of black coverage. But yea. It's a marble angel. Very pretty!
 

clovervalley

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JLeeM said:
So what does that make one like this exactly? Meet Iris. She has a hint of yellow/gold but only on the dorsal and forehead area (why we called her Iris). The rest is obviously black and white. She also has the horizontal striations. So is this enough to call her a gold marble?
IMG_20190505_213827725.jpg
Mine looks just like Iris, just without as much yellow! Marble Ángels are my favorite
IMG_0503.JPG
 
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bizaliz3

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I have put together a new pair I am super pumped about! It's a pinoy paraiba and a blue leopard! The pinoy paraiba is the female!
20190715_142552.jpg



Here is what I can expect!!!
Screenshot_20190715-150018_Chrome.jpg
 

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Some one asked me if there was a ram calculator !
I should have sent them to this thread !
 

JLeeM

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bizaliz3 said:
I have put together a new pair I am super pumped about! It's a pinoy paraiba and a blue leopard!
20190715_142552.jpg



Here is what I can expect!!!
Screenshot_20190715-150018_Chrome.jpg
This looks really interesting. I love that blue. So which is which gender wise?

EDIT: Whoops, I see the gender labels now!
 
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bizaliz3

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JLeeM said:
This looks really interesting. I love that blue. So which is which gender wise?

EDIT: Whoops, I see the gender labels now!
Haha! I had it backwards on the calculator. The blue leopard is the Male. The pinoy paraiba is the female.

coralbandit said:
Some one asked me if there was a ram calculator !
I should have sent them to this thread !
I'm not even sure how we would start with a ram calculator! How much do we even know about all their individual genes?

If anyone could do it...you could!
 

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coralbandit said:
Some one asked me if there was a ram calculator !
I should have sent them to this thread !
It was me. But I already knew about the angelfish calculator, that's why I asked. Just thinking with all the different varieties arising, that it seems similar to thr angel genetics. Just not as involved yet. Simpler calculator.

Good luck Biz! Your angels are so lovely. The pinoy looks kind of gothic. Very neat!
 

coralbandit

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bizaliz3 said:
I'm not even sure how we would start with a ram calculator! How much do we even know about all their individual genes?

If anyone could do it...you could!
I have no clue on biology but there are not that many colors and the results of mixes should not be hard to predict or just report from past practices .

angelcraze said:
It was me. But I already knew about the angelfish calculator, that's why I asked. Just thinking with all the different varieties arising, that it seems similar to thr angel genetics. Just not as involved yet. Simpler calculator.
I think it would be pretty simple with far fewer colors but again have no clue besides experience ...
I think I know what I get from mixing almost all of the colors .
The Blacks have added a new 'feature' but since they don't breed true like the golds or electric blue they are still a feature to me more then a variation IMO ?
 

angelcraze

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bizaliz3 said:
So just a fun bit of info.
A pearlscale blusher only gets visible pearls on its patches!

Here is a young paraiba pearlscale. All the same fish. I think its really neat!

It has much less patching on it's right side.
20190626_141438.jpg
20190626_134443.jpg
20190626_134426.jpg
Very cool teacher moments Biz! I think the same applies to glitter. It can only express on the guinane areas on a blushing angel. Thanks for the zebra education too! I have to look into this more, like dorsal patterns on a pinoy.

I'm curious, in your pics, you can tell the pinoy paraiba are double dose for blue. I was afraid the blue wouldn't show up as well, but it seems to! I'm a big fan of the pinoy paraiba you just put with the blue leopard. Does she also have a gold gene? Or not hybrid?

Also I don't understand leopard yet. Like how can you tell he's leopard looking at him?
 

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angelcraze said:
Very cool teacher moments Biz! I think the same applies to glitter. It can only express on the guinane areas on a blushing angel. Thanks for the zebra education too! I have to look into this more, like dorsal patterns on a pinoy.

I'm curious, in your pics, you can tell the pinoy paraiba are double dose for blue. I was afraid the blue wouldn't show up as well, but it seems to! I'm a big fan of the pinoy paraiba you just put with the blue leopard. Does she also have a gold gene? Or not hybrid?

Also I don't understand leopard yet. Like how can you tell he's leopard looking at him?
Leopard is a zebra smokey, so you will see the striations (blue highlights/lines) in the fins look funky compared to a normal blue smokey. You don't see the stripes on the body because smokey covers it so it expresses in the fins where the smokey doesn't extend to cover it.
 

angelcraze

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Mcasella said:
Leopard is a zebra smokey, so you will see the striations (blue highlights/lines) in the fins look funky compared to a normal blue smokey. You don't see the stripes on the body because smokey covers it so it expresses in the fins where the smokey doesn't extend to cover it.
Ahhh cool tx! So the funky patterning on the dorsal of a leopard is actually zebra patterning. I'm kind of relearning things here, but never worked with these genes myself, and I don't retain all the info I guess for long lol! So thanks!

Now does anyone know what gives that pinoy paraiba the uneven caudal fin edges? I think it might be called combtail? I see she's a veil.
 
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