Help Betta With A Wound/ulcer That Won't Heal.

KelRednip

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Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 24
How long has the tank been running? 2 years just over.
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 28oC
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.) One Betta

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Twice a, week
How much of the water do you change? 20%
What do you use to treat your water? Seachem Primw
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Vacume once a week

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes
What do you use to test the water? Api test kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 10-15
pH: 7-7.5

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Twice a day, fast once a week.
How much do you feed your fish? Small pinch
What brand of food do you feed your fish?fish science, bug bites
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?both mainly frozen, dried twice a week

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 1.5 years.
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? Week ago.
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Wound/ulcer that's not improving.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Waterlife Myxazin
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? No

Explain your emergency situation in detail.
My betta has a wound/ulcer on his side that's not healing & is getting g gradually worse rather than better.
He had a cut (or what I thought was a cut) in the same place around 8 weeks ago, he went clamped & off his food. I treated by tubbing him with meth blue & daily water changes. He healed up fine & quickly.
Last week I noticed that the area looked a little rough, though nothing of it thinking he'd scraped himself. But this week I noticed it had opened & on Thurs it had some fuzz on the wound.
I moved him to my filterless hospital tank (I use prime & change 50% every 48 hrs) & he's into day three off Waterlife Myxazin but its getting bigger & it seems to be the dead scales around it that has the fuzz not the wound.
He's currently acting fine & eating well.
Any advice where to go if he's doesn't improve after Myxazin?
I have access to most recommended meds.
I have tried to get pics but he won't stay still & I can't get a video to upload.
Thanks & sorry for the essay!
 

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Repolie

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Sores and ulcers are usually caused by an infection of gram negative bacteria.

I suggest you try treating Furan 2 or Kanaplex if there's no improvement because both medications are broad spectrum antibiotics which makes them effective. Continue to keep the water clean to promote the healing process.
 
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KelRednip

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I suggest you try treating Furan 2 or Kanaplex if there's no improvement because both medications are broad spectrum antibiotics which makes them effective. Continue to keep the water clean to promote the healing process.
Thank you.
I have Kanaolex, bought it from US before I knew I shouldn't (from the UK where we don't have access.).
Fingers crossed I can get this guy better, he's the happiest boy I've had.

UPDATE.
Just dosed that third dose of Kanaplex last night.
No change It’s still progressing at quite a quick pace, it’s gone under & just starting to go up his other side. I though we’d turned a corner but nope.
Do I keep going for another three doses?
Do I try to get a different antibiotic like Neoplex? I have Metrolex but that reads like it’s not appropriate.
I’ve also got Sera Baktour but this was more for if I could get it to stop progressing.
Anymore help would be great.
 

Fashooga

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At this point you'll have to be patient and hope for the best. Medication doesn't work in one day, it often take several doses as well as following the directions to a "t".

When your sick with a common cold you take drugs to help you feel better. Drugs won't get rid of the common cold in 4 hours, it takes a matter of days or weeks.
 

lilirose

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Please stick with the meds you're using and don't switch to another midstream. As long as he's eating and acting normally, you have a decent chance that he'll get better, but it will take time- and switching meds after two or three days isn't giving it time. I'm not sure of the directions for Kanaplex (also illegal where I live) but remember that, not only do you need to give the meds time to work, but also that healing from damage like that won't happen overnight.

It's really hard to be patient when your Betta is ill, but patience is what is needed here.
 
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KelRednip

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Thanks guys. His last dose is up today.
I'm going to do a second dose back to back.which Seachem recommended & then it's a week's rest before re assessing.
Its just distressing seeing him literally being eaten away.
He's still eating albeit a little less & a little less acrive but to be honest he must feel miserable with the wound & antibiotics.
 

lilirose

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Thanks guys. His last dose is up today.
I'm going to do a second dose back to back.which Seachem recommended & then it's a week's rest before re assessing.
Its just distressing seeing him literally being eaten away.
He's still eating albeit a little less & a little less acrive but to be honest he must feel miserable with the wound & antibiotics.
Good luck! Please keep us updated. One idea is to use your phone to grab a photo every single day... That will make it easier to see progress over time. Sorry if you've already thought of that.

If he takes a turn for the worse, then it's time to consider other actions.
 
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KelRednip

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Good luck! Please keep us updated. One idea is to use your phone to grab a photo every single day... That will make it easier to see progress over time. Sorry if you've already thought of that.

If he takes a turn for the worse, then it's time to consider other actions.
Thanks I will keep updating.
He was hiding all day in his cave yesterday but he’s out & about acting normal today. I fact it’s hard to get a pic of him today as he’s dancing all over.
 

lilirose

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Dancing all over is a great sign, unless he's acting itchy and rubbing against things. But actively swimming usually indicates improvement!

I find that if I can't get things to hold still enough for a photo, a short video does the trick.
 
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KelRednip

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Good luck! Please keep us updated.
Back with an update.
He's done two rounds of kanaolex & we still have fuzz. It seems to be still progressing but slower than in the beginning, it doesn't look like it but I think that's because the fin has gone.
We are on the second day of a weeks rest.
He's still eating, not very active but is swimming & getting air fine. He will twitch occasionally, I assume the wound is irritating him.
Where to I go from here?
I have no idea if it looks like it's healing, there's new white patches in the cut (I've attached pics)
I have Neoplex that's arrived & various other non antibiotics meds (UK).
 

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lilirose

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I can't see your photo- there's an issue with the forum at the moment, so it's not your fault.

Maybe step up the water changes a bit, try 50% three times a week? I often preach that frequent water changes will cure almost any Betta illness, even when water parameters look fine. I didn't say that to you before as it was pretty clear that there's a fungus happening here. I'm starting to wonder if you have bacteria and fungus...in which case I'm afraid all I can advise is more water changes. I'm not sure about the wisdom of using an antibiotic when there is a fungus present. Of course I'm not a veterinarian. I know in humans it's not a good idea as antibiotics can allow fungus to thrive.

The twitchiness you're describing is probably itching.

The good news is that he's eating and he's not getting worse. This is an extremely good sign- I know it doesn't feel like it when your pet is still ill, but I have seen so very many cases where Bettas get sick and they just get worse and worse no matter what is tried.

I'm sorry I can't be more helpful but you have my support.
 
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KelRednip

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Thanks for your reply. My current water change is 100% every other day using Prime.
The fuzz looks like it’s only on dead tissue, though I can’t be 100%. I’m happy the spread has slowed down, though I’ve noticed a new red spot tonight.
It’s a lot of work but he’s worth it. I’ve been treating the bacterial route, maybe after a break I’ll try something for the fungus but milder.
I was advised esha 2000/Myxazin or Paraguard to begin with but chose Kanaplex as it was just spreading so fast, maybe now one of those would be useful?
I’m very wary of using antibiotics when they’re not needed.
I am off to look into the fungal side of things.
 

lilirose

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Wow, okay, after looking at your photos (I can see them now!), I'm going to change my judgement. I'm thinking parasite and bacteria, not fungus, especially as it is not really better after antifungal treatment. And that looks...a lot worse than it did before, at least to me...it went from a sore spot to a gaping wound.

I am forever telling people on this forum not to panic. But if this were my fish I'd be throwing everything possible at it.

Also, if there is activated charcoal in the filter you use, and you haven't already removed it (the charcoal), you should do. It will remove the medicine from the water. I think I'd actually recommend installing a cheap sponge filter for the time being- you know the black kind that you attach to an air pump, that most people think are ugly? You can get one for less than £5 on Amazon. Normally I'd advise against removing the old filter completely, because that's where the beneficial bacteria live, but if you're treating with antibiotics, likely the beneficial bacteria are already gone. Keep a very close eye on your water parameters (test every day for now) and do a 50% water change any time you see any changes, even if it's "only" nitrates.

But you still should not panic. The fact that he's eating and swimming says there is still reason to hope. I'd say his colour also doesn't look bad, but he's white, so it'd be hard to tell, haha- but he doesn't have the "miserable dying Betta" look I've seen far too often. He's not my fish and I don't see him every day, so you might disagree and I would yield to your judgement.

Please continue to keep us up to date.
 

AvalancheDave

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It looks like Saprolegnia is a secondary infection. The rest looks bacterial. I would try trimethoprim-suflathoxamezole or ciprofloxacin.

Might end up cheaper in the long run to find a vet and get injectable antibiotics.
 
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KelRednip

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It looks like Saprolegnia is a secondary infection. The rest looks bacterial. I would try trimethoprim-suflathoxamezole or ciprofloxacin.

Might end up cheaper in the long run to find a vet and get injectable antibiotics.
I actually read about that last night.
My problem is I'm in the UK where we aren't allowed antibiotics (though I have managed to get Kanaplex, Metroplex and Neoplex from US) & hard to find a vet that deals in fish but I will have a look. Thank you.

Wow, okay, after looking at your photos (I can see them now!), I'm going to change my judgement. I'm thinking parasite and bacteria, not fungus, especially as it is not really better after antifungal treatment. And that looks...a lot worse than it did before, at least to me...it went from a sore spot to a gaping wound.

I am forever telling people on this forum not to panic. But if this were my fish I'd be throwing everything possible at it.

Also, if there is activated charcoal in the filter you use, and you haven't already removed it (the charcoal), you should do. It will remove the medicine from the water. I think I'd actually recommend installing a cheap sponge filter for the time being- you know the black kind that you attach to an air pump, that most people think are ugly? You can get one for less than £5 on Amazon. Normally I'd advise against removing the old filter completely, because that's where the beneficial bacteria live, but if you're treating with antibiotics, likely the beneficial bacteria are already gone. Keep a very close eye on your water parameters (test every day for now) and do a 50% water change any time you see any changes, even if it's "only" nitrates.

But you still should not panic. The fact that he's eating and swimming says there is still reason to hope. I'd say his colour also doesn't look bad, but he's white, so it'd be hard to tell, haha- but he doesn't have the "miserable dying Betta" look I've seen far too often. He's not my fish and I don't see him every day, so you might disagree and I would yield to your judgement.

Please continue to keep us up to date.
I run sponge filters so I have spare ones & air pumps.
I took his normal tank down, Inc filter to steralise it. Plus I soak all equipment used so Im not cross contaminating.
Yeah he looks nothing like any previous betta, I've had when poorly. I just want to try & stop it speeding near his vital organs.
As long as he's looking happy & OK to keep fighting, I'll spend the money & keep going.
I'm also realistic but I'd like to know I've done everything I possibly can. I have Aqua Sed just incase.
Thank you for all your help you've been great!
 

ap4lmtree

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I dont think the first picture in your second picture post is a good photo. It looks like the wound has separated from his body; however, I think it is because of the camera angle rather than his current status. Either way, your second set of two pictures is quite concerning. The betta appears to be getting worse, and I am thinking that he might be getting caught in an ornament again since the first post.

You said that previously, your betta healed on his own with your treatment and without antibiotics. If it is the same thing, then he doesn't need antibiotics. He needs just to be clear from any new bacteria while he heals on his own. A long term bacteriostatic antibiotic that keeps any new bacteria in check could help with that whereas a short term bactericidal or short term aminoglycosides, such as kanaplex, would be more helpful with with killing any flesh eating bacteria if there is any rather than getting his wound from an ornament.

For the white stuff growing on your betta, aquarium salt could get rid of it if it is fungas although another poster thinks it isn't fungus, but I think that is because of the camera angle, like I mentioned.

It is unfortunate that UK residents dont have more readily access to antibiotics. I am not sure about neoplex, but I think it can be used as a long term aminoglycosides and can be used up to 3 weeks to keep bacteria in check as your betta heals on its own if he doesn't have flesh eating bacteria. If he doesn't have a flesh eating bacteria, then I am talking about using an antibiotic, such as neoplex, just to keep new bacteria from forming or producing any more as he heals on his own.

So in summary, based on what you have, one course of treatment you could do is long term just neoplex and just methylene blue that you said you have as your betta heals on his own. In the intermediate term, you could also use some aquarium salt to get rid of his fungas.

Again though, one reason he might not be healing or might be getting worse is because there is an ornament that is still causing problems, which is what i am thinking.
 

lilirose

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I didn't think to ask about what's in his tank as far as decor. I always do a "snag test" for a Betta- take a nylon stocking or pair of tights (pantyhose to any Americans reading along) and run the nylon all over the ornaments in the tank, any spot that the Betta can touch. Anything that snags the stocking, even a little bit, is not Betta safe. Hopefully you haven't overlooked anything like that.
 
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KelRednip

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Thanks for the replies. I appreciate it.
Ornament wise he has the coconut hammock & a coconut cave. They're all smooth, a woman on Facebook makes them for bettas.
I will retest them again to rule them out as they do have some silicone on them.

This fish has had issues since I bought him really. He flashes alot on & off so the first time this happened I assumed he'd cut himself, then the cut went red & he got a tiny red mark near his tail. I tubbed him did 100% changes everyday & kept him in meth blue till he healed which was about a week.
This was about 2months ago.
Regarding the flashing, he's been wormed, anti flukes, checking pH is stable 7-7.5, even tried a suggested mix of tap & RO water, he gets two to 20-30% water changes a week to stop any pH swings (shouldn't be bust just incase). He has never stopped in the 11months I've had him, **** do it less but not stop.
Now this has floored me, by far the hardest thing I've came up against.

If I use the neoplex would I do daily meth blue baths? I assume you can't use both in the water.
He's also in a filterless hospital tank, do you just re dose the neoplex after every change, it says redose every 6 (not sure I don't have the box, I'm at work) days but obviously with no filter that can't be done?

Couple more photos from yesterday.
I'll take the hammock out to be safe. He has other resting places. They're not great as his pecs get in the way. IMG_20190617_194201.jpg IMG_20190617_194141.jpg
 

AvalancheDave

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Flukes are difficult to treat. Noga's book lists nearly 20 different treatments and notes that you may have to try many of them before you find something that works.

Worms are less tricky to treat but not that likely to cause flashing.

I also wouldn't rule out an external parasite.

It might be nice to have skin scrapes and gill biopsies examined under a microscope by a vet.
 

lilirose

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Okay, those pictures make the issue look a bit less severe than the others- in the pics yesterday, it looked to me like a deep gouge and that his insides were about to fall out!

Silicone is very smooth and soft, I can't see it causing the issue. Coconut can be rough, however. I "snag test" items even when they are sold for Bettas, as you never know when something might have been missed.

You say he has other resting places- that implies that there are other items in the tank that you haven't mentioned? Also you said you thought he had cut himself- but if there is nothing sharp in the tank, how could that be?

Please note that I'm not implying that you should remove everything from his tank as this would stress him out more. He needs places to hide and rest. The snag test is quite easy and simple and can be done on items that are wet (meaning, you can take an item out of the tank, snag test it, then put it back).

Forgive me for the extensive questioning, I'm only trying to help you figure this out.
 
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