Betta septicemia?

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kaleyconniving

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So I got a betta from the store and by golly except for some blemishes from my guess his time in the cup is beautiful, I knew he had something wrong with him but I couldn't resist and thought it would clear up with good water conditions. Well I looked closer and noticed the red lines through his fins went into his body and along his spine, I didn't know it was a big deal so I let him be for a couple weeks to see if it got any better, it didn't. Granted he has been swimming along seeming relatively happy and eating well, but he's slowly gotten more lethargic. So I did some research and the main thing that matches this is septicemia, so I mixed up some tetracycline in 10 oz of water and him being in a 1.5 gallon tank I added 1 oz of the mixture to it, slightly weaker but meds scare me a bit, by the first dose he was swimming around and through the second he laid on the bottom only moving for air or movement around the tank, after 48 hours he won't come up unless for air, nor want to move during the water change! And when he does he seems so weak the filter pushes him around. I just not sure what to do at this point, anyone help?
The tank stays at 76, and isn't cycled but I keep up on my water changes making sure ammonia and nitrite stay 0, but honestly he had this when I got him.
There are pictures with and without a flashlight on him and the lines are more red than they appear in the pictures, also the ends of his tail almost appear ruffled at times?

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junebug

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You have a number of issues. First, that tank is too small. Second, the temperature is pretty low for a betta. They need to be at minimum around 78f. And third the fish is obviously sick.

Septicemia is not a disease, but rather a symptom of infection. Until you find out what's causing the infection and get a better med than tetracycline, it's unlikely you'll be able to treat him. First off, when a fish is this sick, meds need to be fed to him rather than simply dosed in the water. So get some medicated food going and soak it in garlic before feeding so he'll eat some.

Hopefully that will reduce the bacterial infection enough that you can hopefully find the cause. If his abdomen is bloated, it's safe to assume worms. If not, perhaps an injury on or around a gill where it would be hard to see.
 
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kaleyconniving

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You have a number of issues. First, that tank is too small. Second, the temperature is pretty low for a betta. They need to be at minimum around 78f. And third the fish is obviously sick.

Septicemia is not a disease, but rather a symptom of infection. Until you find out what's causing the infection and get a better med than tetracycline, it's unlikely you'll be able to treat him. First off, when a fish is this sick, meds need to be fed to him rather than simply dosed in the water. So get some medicated food going and soak it in garlic before feeding so he'll eat some.

Hopefully that will reduce the bacterial infection enough that you can hopefully find the cause. If his abdomen is bloated, it's safe to assume worms. If not, perhaps an injury on or around a gill where it would be hard to see.
Understandable that the conditions are not the best, but they are not awful in comparison to most betta owners. And I realize that it is not the best course of treatment but the meds that I do have on hand are tetracycline, Melafix, and salt. I see no injuries and his abdomen is not bloated. I'm not going to make excuses for the environment that he is in nor why I don't have all of the things that I need, I'm simply asking what are the most prominent items I need to help him?

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Small tanks and inappropriate water temps are contributing to any stress/disease/injury he might have. That's why I mention it.

You might consider getting a sterilite tub for him. They have greater surface area so at least there's room for him to exercise even if the water volume is not the best. It also allows for better gas exchange, so that's helpful in many ways.

As for meds, look into some medicated food as I suggested. Putting stuff in the water is generally not very helpful except to kill anything free-floating. Peabody's Paradise sells all sorts of medicated foods, or you can soak your regular flake or pellets in garlic juice with a heavy dose of anti-bacterial meds. Use your tetracycline if you can't get something like kanamycin.
 

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This does sound like Hemorraghic Septicemia alright. I'm sorry to say, but this really isn't good news for your fish. Hemorraghic Septicemia is usually caused by bacteria in aquarium fish. There are a number of different bacteria that can cause it. This is because when you break the name down, hemorraghic means bleeding or bleeding profusely, Septicemia means blood poisoning. This means that different types of bacteria can cause bleeding and blood poisoning. Unfortunately to make matters worse, because the blood is poisoned, the internal organs are being damaged. This is why so many treatments don't work. Tetracycline has been known to work, but if pH is in the high range, this medication pretty much becomes ineffective. Minocycline (Maracyn II) is a tetracycline product but with a difference. It treats a broader spectrum of bacteria than other tetracycline products so it is sometimes more effective in treating this disease. The disease is most often fatal unless it is treated early.

There is also Viral Hemorraghic Septicemia, but it is more often found in lakes that are prone to the viruses that cause it.

I'm really very sorry to be the bearer of such bad news. I'm not saying you should give up, because maybe with really good water conditions and Minocycline, you might start to see some improvement. I just can't guarantee it and the odds aren't all that good.

Again, I'm sorry.
 
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kaleyconniving

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Small tanks and inappropriate water temps are contributing to any stress/disease/injury he might have. That's why I mention it.

You might consider getting a sterilite tub for him. They have greater surface area so at least there's room for him to exercise even if the water volume is not the best. It also allows for better gas exchange, so that's helpful in many ways.

As for meds, look into some medicated food as I suggested. Putting stuff in the water is generally not very helpful except to kill anything free-floating. Peabody's Paradise sells all sorts of medicated foods, or you can soak your regular flake or pellets in garlic juice with a heavy dose of anti-bacterial meds. Use your tetracycline if you can't get something like kanamycin.
This does sound like Hemorraghic Septicemia alright. I'm sorry to say, but this really isn't good news for your fish. Hemorraghic Septicemia is usually caused by bacteria in aquarium fish. There are a number of different bacteria that can cause it. This is because when you break the name down, hemorraghic means bleeding or bleeding profusely, Septicemia means blood poisoning. This means that different types of bacteria can cause bleeding and blood poisoning. Unfortunately to make matters worse, because the blood is poisoned, the internal organs are being damaged. This is why so many treatments don't work. Tetracycline has been known to work, but if pH is in the high range, this medication pretty much becomes ineffective. Minocycline (Maracyn II) is a tetracycline product but with a difference. It treats a broader spectrum of bacteria than other tetracycline products so it is sometimes more effective in treating this disease. The disease is most often fatal unless it is treated early.

There is also Viral Hemorraghic Septicemia, but it is more often found in lakes that are prone to the viruses that cause it.

I'm really very sorry to be the bearer of such bad news. I'm not saying you should give up, because maybe with really good water conditions and Minocycline, you might start to see some improvement. I just can't guarantee it and the odds aren't all that good.

Again, I'm sorry.
Thank you both for the information, I went and got him medicated food with active ingredient kanamycine and metronidazole , but so far he isn't having any of it, any tips on getting him to eat? Its already got the garlic added

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Soaking it in a little fresh garlic juice might still help. Dried garlic in with the food doesn't give it the same fish appeal. If that doesn't work, you can also try hand feeding him, if he doesn't dart away. Go slow and see what happens.
 

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I recommend purchasing Dr. G's Antibacterial Caviar. It's a medicated fish food. Fish love it, too. You can use it in all aquariums (fresh, salt, brack).
 
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kaleyconniving

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Soaking it in a little fresh garlic juice might still help. Dried garlic in with the food doesn't give it the same fish appeal. If that doesn't work, you can also try hand feeding him, if he doesn't dart away. Go slow and see what happens.
So I buy cloves of garlic and try to squish some juice out of them and put it in the food? I tried handfeeding because he normally will take it from me, he swam up and just stared at it like " what is this s**?" It was slightly comical setting aside the fact he's sick.

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You can make your own garlic juice, and I know that my use of the word "fresh" implied that, but you can also use something like Garlic Guard. I'll give you a link on making garlic juice.
 
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kaleyconniving

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Well I added some fresh squeezed garlic juice to the food today, I had to hold it at the top of the water for about 5 minutes before he decided to take a bite.. then spit it out. *sigh* on the bright side my other fish enjoyed the treat. Any other suggestions?
 

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Now I am confused. There is other fish in his tank? You soaked his medicated food in garlic and gave it to your other fish? Is there a filter in his tank?
 

toosie

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No, I don't have other feeding suggestions, but do you have a quarantine tank you can transfer this guy into? Because he is a betta, I didn't realize there are other fish. Betta's tend to be kept by themselves. Jomolager is going to shortly be asking you the same thing, judging from the above post. It's potentially dangerous for your other fish for this betta to remain housed with them.
 
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kaleyconniving

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Now I am confused. There is other fish in his tank? You soaked his medicated food in garlic and gave it to your other fish? Is there a filter in his tank?
I didn't mean to confuse, he is by himself with a filter, the leftover food that he didn't eat I gave to my guppies in a different tank that are having some fin issues.

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toosie

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Actually, I do have one other feeding suggestion. Just keep trying what you did this time. If he showed a little interest, he may start to take it from you, so keep trying 3 or 4 times a day.
 
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kaleyconniving

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I guess it would be appropriate to say: when it rains, it pours. What's wrong with guppies? How big is their tank? How many do you have?
That it does..
Here's the link I had posted about it, they're healing up it looks like now, the food said it can be used preventatively so I thought it wouldn't hurt incase they had a bacterial problem. There are two adults and about 5 fry not counting the tiny tinies
https://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/showthread.php?t=185643

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kaleyconniving

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Actually, I do have one other feeding suggestion. Just keep trying what you did this time. If he showed a little interest, he may start to take it from you, so keep trying 3 or 4 times a day.
Well he still spits it out at first but once it gets to the bottom and sits for a bit he goes and picks at it so far I don't see much left over, but he's much more active today and practically pushing his stones out of the way to pick at the pieces that fell in between. But not much change in his appearance

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toosie

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Well he still spits it out at first but once it gets to the bottom and sits for a bit he goes and picks at it so far I don't see much left over, but he's much more active today and practically pushing his stones out of the way to pick at the pieces that fell in between. But not much change in his appearance

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Still.... that's a good sign!
 

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I'm glad to see that things are looking up for your betta.
Even garlic alone is a good antibacterial food and preventative. I add fresh garlic juice to my fish food all of the time.
You can buy a jar of minced or chopped garlic and use the juice from there. That is what I do. When I use the garlic for cooking, I'll take out some juice for their food. I make home-made food for my goldies and they don't show much interest unless there is garlic in it. My spoiled babies.
 
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