Betta sees reflection against backdrop

Hey guys! So I just got a new Betta 2 days ago. I won him from my biology lab very last minute so I had to scramble and get a tank ready with only 2 days notice! I ended up getting a 10 gallon with a filter and heater and bought all the testing kits and conditioner and bacteria starter. I set up the tank with tap water and used conditioner, and then bacteria about half an hour later, then brought the tank up to 81-82 degrees and had it running (with no media in the filter however) for 20 hours before I had to pick up my Betta from school. I put his bag in the tank to adjust the temperature for 20 minutes, then mixed some of the tank water into the bag to adjust him to the pH for about 10 minutes, then poured the bag in the tank. He seemed very happy!

Then the next day I bought new substrate (fluval stratum) and 4 live plants and some new decorations. I put him in a large vase with some of his water and a hiding rock for the next 20 hours as I was setting up the 10 gallon and it took a very long time for the fluval stratum to settle to the bottom. Immediately after I put him in his nice, clean 10 gallon he began to flare up his fins every time he neared the back of the tank. I realized this was because the picture I had against the back was casting his reflection so he thought it was another male Betta!

My problem is that I really liked the look of the tank much better with the there, but I don't want to stress out and potentially kill Hakuna (my Betta) from all his aggressive agonistic behavior. I have now removed the picture and he is fine.

What do you suggest I do? Will he adjust to it, or will he constantly stay aggressive and potentially die from the stress? Maybe I could put up a lighter colored picture as the black parts are casting the clearest reflection... but this may not help much.

Also, does it sound like I set the tank up properly? Did I miss anything?

Thanks so much for your help! (Sorry about the long message)

 

welcome to the forum

There's a product called seaview that will solve that problem - it eliminates the air gaps between the glass and the background. I don't think you have to worry about the fish killing itself from stress.

 

I'm not sure about the background (have honestly never had a betta that flared at his reflection more than once or twice and then proceeded to ignore it).

However, I think you're going to have problems with the way you set up your tank.

First off, what "bacterial starter" did you use? The only one worth the money is Tetra SafeStart. All the others don't contain the correct type of bacteria (they contain land-based bacteria instead of aquatic bacteria, which is why you have to add them all the time as per the bottle instructions).

Secondly, your bacteria lives mainly on your filter media (which is why you have a filter). An additional percentage lives on your substrate and decor, but the majority of it lives on the filter media. By running the filter with the bacterial starter in the tank, but without substrate, media or decor, you left only the bare bottom of the tank for the bacteria to colonize on. Then you covered it up with the substrate after it started to become established, effectively killing the bacteria. The waste produced by your betta cannot penetrate the substrate and it is the waste that the bacteria feeds on (ammonia converted into nitrite, converted into nitrate).

 

Sorry I have not given you all the information. (I JUST updated my aquarium info so you can see the brands that I use for my supplements, etc).

I did have decor (castle, rock, 4 fake plants) as well as 2 cm of substrate that the person who sold me the tank had left over. The water was quite cloudy for a few hours after the bacteria starter went in, which was probably due to the lack of media in the filter (however there was the thin layer of carbon filter in there that is never supposed to be changed out - just rinsed). The only reason there was no media in there at first was because the person who sold me the tank forgot it at home and all the stores were closed. As soon as I got out of school the next day, I tried to buy some, but all I could get was an activated carbon sac which I've stuffed into the filter. The fluval dust actually cleared up much faster with that carbon sac in there so I know it's working. I will be ordering the correct media online though.

 

Hate to tell you, but Top Fin Bacteria Supplement is rubbish. :-( It's a land-based bacteria that needs to be added weekly (or when you do a water change) because it dies out and you lose your cycle.

 

Great.. thanks for telling me! I will order tetra safestart from amazon along with my media replacements. Specifically which type do you suggest? There seems to be several options.

 

Your fish will experince a cycle, it will probably be rough and it can kill him. Theres the simple truth unfortunetly. The bacterial starter, no matter which product, takes a bare minimum of 7-10days to cycle a tank reasonably, and that's with an ammonia source and filter media to cling too. Id advise you get a bottle of Prime Asap. While the tank cycles, I do advise you use the bacerial starter, Tetra safe start, to help it along. If you can get filter media from a friend with a cycled tank that would greatly reduce the time of cycle. During the cycle you will need daily testings of the Amonia, Nitrite and Nitrate levels. Dose prime to temporaily negate amonia, then daily waterchanges of around 50% will remove a good deal of it.

As far as the flaring at self, he will get over it in a week or two, they always do . It will come down to the occasionaly flare. Not to mention he can't see I'm self when he looks at the glass at certain angles.

 

I didn't know there were different kinds of SafeStart, to be honest. I've never used it, but have heard stellar reviews on here for it. Thankfully, I have my 55gal set up with a canister filter and when I need to start a new tank (and jump-start my cycle), I just snatch some media out of the canister and stuff it into the filter on the new tank. Ta-da! Instant cycle! I thought the different "options" for SafeStart were just the different bottle sizes.

Edit: Just took a gander at Amazon. Yeah, the different "options" are just different bottle sizes for bigger or smaller tanks. I'd just go with the 50ml one. It treats up to a 15gal tank, so you should be good.

ETA: Prime is great for water changes or if you aren't going to use Tetra SafeStart, however, SafeStart and Prime CANNOT be used simultaneously. The Prime will lock away too much of the ammonia that the bacteria in the SafeStart needs to feed on and the bacteria will starve. Once your cycle is established (with SafeStart, after the 7-10 day waiting period), then you can use Prime with every water change.

Also, solitarianknight is correct, either way (using SafeStart or doing daily 50% water changes with Prime), your fish is going to experience the effects of the cycling process. The benefit of SafeStart is that it GREATLY reduces the amount of time that the fish is exposed to the effects of the cycling process. Doing a fish-in cycle with Prime can take 4-6 weeks.

 

Well there is safestart with "Proprietary Bio-Spira Bacteria" or with "Live Bacteria". I'm assuming the live is better so that is what I will order.

@ soltarianknight: I just noticed that I do have Prime! When exactly do I use it? Just when my ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels are up?

 

Yes, the live is better. Never heard of the other one. But then again, I've never used it.

As for Prime...use it when you do water changes. It will condition the water (removing chlorine, chloramine and heavy metals) and makes the ammonia/nitrite harmless for your fish but still available for your bacteria to feed on.

 

(using SafeStart or doing daily 50% water changes with Prime.

You mean AND. It was a both, not a either or XP. In this case, prime needs to be dosed once a day, and with each water change(so basicly, add it to the tank for 10gals worth of dose once a day. THEN use it to dechlorinate any water during water changes). Now prime is temporary and the product of it is similar to amonium. In a sense amonium can be compared to nitrate, its not as deadly as ammonia but in high concentrations it can kill. That's where you'll be doing the large water changes daily to remove a portion of it. The catch is this, there's a pattern to how the amonium will build up, pretend you fish puts out 1ppm of amonia(converted to amonium via prime) a day and you are doing 50% water changes. You get 1-.5=.5 +1= 1.5 -.5= 1 +1= 2-.5= 1.5

And so on. You must get the tank cycled before that amonium gets too high, luckily it will drop when the nitrite form and then rise one more time. You should have roughly 2-3 weeks to cycle. Using TSS, you should do fine.

Keep us posted.

 

Maybe I'm confused on the advice being given but...

If you are not going to use SafeStart you need to do daily partial water changes with Prime until the tank cycles (4-6 weeks usually.

If cycling with SafeStart add the entire bottle of SafeStart and do not do any water changes for 14 days. On day 14, test your water and you should be cycled .

Also, if you put Prime in your tank, wait 24 hours before adding SafeStart. Prime will cause the SafeStart to fail. Doing any water changes before SafeStart cycles the tank will also cause the SafeStart to fail.

If after 14 days you are not cycled, the SafeStart probably failed and you will need to start doing daily water changes unless it looks like you may be real close to being cycled.

 

Ive never heard of safestart failing because you did a water change or added prime, its bacteria, shouldnt be effected. The water changes will delay it yes, but they are nesseccary to keep the fish alive. The product of prime and ammonia can still be absorbed by nitrafying bacteria, that's what it was made for.

 

Somewhere on this site there is a post where someone wrote to Tetra about the proper use of SafeStart and that is what the Tetra representive said.

But really, if you were going to be doing daily partial water changes with Prime, why would you even use SafeStart? SafeStart is a replacement for daily water changes.

 

I agree, doing a water change while using TSS is counter productive. It's very important to follow the directions. There are many cases of TSS not working, and most if not all that I've seen were a result of user error - not following the directions.

 

Ok, Safestart is bacteria in a bottle(please tell me I have the right product -_-). Where does that replace a waterchange, it may eliminate some ammonia as it grows but until the tanks cycled there will be ammonia which is bottom line dangerous for the fish.

Then my advice is to skip the TSS. Daily waterchanges and prime to keep the ammonia and such in check so the fish is ok. Alternativley if you have a 2-5gal container you can move the fish into it and just clean it completley out 2-3 times a week while the tank is cycling, which shouldnt take too long with just TSS. You will want the container to be heated though, what's the Watt rating on your current heater?

 

Ok, Safestart is bacteria in a bottle(please tell me I have the right product -_-). Where does that replace a waterchange, it may eliminate some ammonia as it grows but until the tanks cycled there will be ammonia which is bottom line dangerous for the fish.

Then my advice is to skip the TSS. Daily waterchanges and prime to keep the ammonia and such in check so the fish is ok. Alternativley if you have a 2-5gal container you can move the fish into it and just clean it completley out 2-3 times a week while the tank is cycling, which shouldnt take too long with just TSS. You will want the container to be heated though, what's the Watt rating on your current heater?

TSS has a proven track record, so long as the directions are exactly followed. One of the instructions is to not change the water for a period of time, and the obvious reason for this is it will interfere with the successful use of the product. I'm not sure how dangerous it is when all the fish are fine and you end up with a cycled tank. You can't argue with results. I don't think I've heard the use of TSS described as dangerous before.

I don't think the size of the tank has anything to do with how fast TSS works, since the dosage is proportional to the size of the tank.



Either do daily water changes, or use TSS. Don't do both.

 

What? I think we have reached a misunderstanding? I didnt say anything about the size of the tank having to do with the TSS. I said move the fish while it cycles the tank. So the fish doesn't have to go through a cycle. TSS will not protect the fish from the cycle effects. Its not made for it nor can it be exspected to. All it does is speed up the cycle.

 

Alternativley if you have a 2-5gal container you can move the fish into it and just clean it completley out 2-3 times a week while the tank is cycling, which shouldnt take too long with just TSS

I misunderstood what you meant then.

If you don't have fish in the tank, TSS does not work.... Where are you getting this information from? TSS saves the fish during the cycling process. If it weren't FOR the TSS, the fish would die.

 

What? I think we have reached a misunderstanding? I didnt say anything about the size of the tank having to do with the TSS. I said move the fish while it cycles the tank. So the fish doesn't have to go through a cycle. TSS will not protect the fish from the cycle effects. Its not made for it nor can it be exspected to. All it does is speed up the cycle.

Niether option is optimal, that would be a fishless cycle.

While water changes with prime will help protect the fish during cycling they are still exposed to the effects somewhat for many weeks since the fish need the water changes to keep them safer, it drags the cycle out even longer.

TSS cycles atank in 10 to 14 days. It is designed to be added with fish, so Ideally the fish would be starting in a tank with no ammonia or nitrite, and waste should build gradually while the tank cycles quickly. I have used it with success and recommend it. I also have used Prime and water changes either way works.

Neither option is perfect. But either is better than doing nothing.

 

TSS when used correctly will protect the fish from harmful effects of a cycle. In part it manages to do this by keeping ammonia and nitrite levels very low. If ammonia or nitrites ever surpass 1.5ppm it usually indicates user error and a failed attempt in using TSS. Many of the tanks I have helped to cycle using TSS have come no where close to that high of a level of either toxin, but MANY tanks I have helped to cycle without using TSS, it has been a struggle for the person to keep ammonia and nitrite levels as low as TSS keeps them naturally.

I have to say for a fish in cycle, there is NO method better or safer for the fish than proper use of TSS. The cycle is short, levels are kept low, and the fish seldom suffer from complications of fin rot, popeye or other infections that are common when cycling with other methods.

Proper use of TSS is the key.

 

soltarianknight, look at SafeStart this way, it is very similar to adding seeded filter media to new filter. Seeded filter media is media that has the proper bacteria growing in it to process the ammonia/nitrites in a tank.

SafeStart is the same exact bacteria, only it is in a dormant state in order to be able to be kept alive for an extended period while on a shelf in a store.

SafeStart doesn't neccessarily take 14 days, it could be less, but if it hasn't worked by day 14, it probably has failed.

I've seen you give out some real good advice in the past, so please do not take this as me being hostle to you in any way, but it appears that you do not have any real knowledge about SafeStart and it's use, but you are giving advice that if followed would lead failure.

 

I have used safestart 3 times, twice with fish in and doing waterchanges. Both times my cycle was completed in the maximum of 14 days. Just because my method of using isn't the norm doesn't make it wrong. The other time I used it was fishless, I did persay the intructions, it worked fine aswell so I'm not saying that either method is wrong here.
Dont worry, I surrender

 

Concerning the backdrop, I had one male betta that never calmed down with a dark backdrop, so I removed it and went with a lighter backdrop and he settled down. I have another male betta that flared at the dark background for a few hours and then stopped. I'd just watch yours closely because if they flare too intensely they can blow out their fins (get tiny holes) and it can stress them which isn't in their best interest in the long run.

Here is a link about hiding your betta's reflection:


Concerning TSS, I have used it to cycle a 20 gallon in less than 10 days with ammonia staying at low levels and never had a nitrite spike.

 

Thanks guys!

I went to a really great fish store and they helped me with my issue and I didn't have to spend a penny on any supplements or treatments that, in all honesty, only exist to make money from those who can't maintain their tanks in natural ways. The best way to get bacteria, as you all have mentioned already, is to get some media from an already cycled tank, or alternatively to get some water which that media has been rinsed and squeezed into. This is what the fish store owner gave me, which I have poured into my tank. He also gave me some white fiber-fill looking stuff to use as my filter media which will not be replaced (since that gets rid of all the bacteria), but will just be rinsed whenever I do water changes (rinsed in the water that I remove from the tank).

The store owner agreed with me that my one Betta in a 10 gallon will not be in much danger from levels being too high - that is, now that I have added some good bacteria. I have been checking the levels daily and they are consistently at 0 and the pH is always around 6.6 to 6.8. If the levels somehow get higher then I will deal with it by changing some of the water and then assessing from there.

I will wait for a couple weeks (checking the levels every 2 days or so) before I add more fish. I am thinking of adding 2 schools of fish (3 of one and 4 of another) and in the future adding some ghost shrimp and golden snails. (Petsmart told me a while ago that I should wait before I add the shrimp and snails since they need algae and products from the other fish to eat.) I was told that cardinal tetras and zebra danios were good types of fish to put with a male Betta. Is this correct? And does adding 3 or 4 fish at a time (a couple weeks apart) sound decent? Also, can shrimp and snails live in a fluval stratum substrate tank?

 

Generally, Betta's do best in a tank by themselves. If the betta isn't nipping the fins of the other fish, then the other fish are nipping the fins of the betta.

I would be especially worried about the zebra danios because the are know fin nippers. I don't have any experience with Cherry Barbs so I don't know how nippy they are.

Additionally a 10 gallon tank is not large enough for danio's (and possibly cherry barbs). Danio's are hyper active and need a 20 gallon min. But regardless 10 gallons is too small for both schools.

Also, I believe that there is a change your betta will eat any shrimp or snails in the tank also.

So if you do choose to try putting something in the tank with him, have a back up plan.

 

if they flare too intensely they can blow out their fins (get tiny holes) and it can stress them which isn't in their best interest in the long run.

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That would explain what's happened to one of my boys!!...he is in a tank next to my other betta, its all settled down now but the first 24 hours were quite furious ...sorry for the hijack

 

JFYI this also happens with DG XP as I found out lol, pin holes suck. As far as adding to the 10gal, schooling fish in general, and no NOT THE ONES THE PET STORE SELLS YOU THAT ARE SPECIAL, need 5-8 members of their own group, not 4 and 3 you can do 1 school of 6 cardinals, or 8 neons. Wouldnt reccomend much else, bettas like their own space.

 

I'm glad you got it figured out. Sorry you got the TSS debate.
My bettas ate both shrimp and snails. Do you have any photos of your tank?

 

There.. I just put a picture in my album. Thanks for the suggestion

My roommate has had a goldfish for a few years and someone gave her a tetra about a year ago to put in with it (that person clearly didn't know a lot about keeping fish). However, the goldfish just died and she doesn't really want her tetra. Can I put it in with my betta?? I can't tell what kind of tetra it is... It's the shape of a tetra, but with a big belly, and is silver with orange on the top and a few black stripes along its sides right under the orange section. Sound familiar to anyone?

 

Tetras are schooling fish, meaning they need to be in groups of 6+ to be comfortable. Most of them also need anywhere from 20-75gal tanks.

 

I do understand that, but currently he is in a 2 gallon alone. Would it not be better for him to be in my betta's 10 gallon tank?