Betta Rescue - More Harm Than Good?

A running theme in the betta forum is the rescuing of the little guys from places like Petco & Walmart. Firstly, let me say I'm not criticizing anyone who has done this.

As consumers, our voice and opinions are expressed by where and how we spend our dollars. If you buy betta's kept in miserable little cups, half dead, you are supporting a conglomerate who will continue to put bettas in cups to die.

So, the question becomes; would it not be better to stop supporting places like this, as conscientious pet lovers, and instead spend your money on places that practice safe and ethical treatment? Would it not be better to quit shopping at Walmart (which, like fast food, is eroding the american retail system, landscape, and quality of life) and Petco?

 

This is a very good question that I am sure has been on many folks mind from time to time. I also wonder that by buying bettas we are in fact supporting this type of treatment. Would it be prudent to leave the unhealthy bettas there in the cups to die? Would the shop owners find they loose money this way and would it prompt them to take better care of their 'merchandise'? But would it be humane? Its hard to leave a sick unhealthy animal be it a dog, cat... fish... or bird with no care. How unhumane and noncaring would we be?
So it seems that while we do not like the conditions the bettas are put in, and would lke to see them in larger cups and healthy, there is something positive and proactive we can do, and that is to take those that are in need home to care for them.

 

This is kind of like the "chicken or the egg" scenario. Did our purchase cause Petco to stock dozens of cups of bettas, or did we start purchasing because they stocked dozens of bettas?
Personally, I am of the opinion of discouraging their sale by not purchasing from them.
However, I cannot fault those who choose the other road.
There is a Buddhist temple that saves up money throughout the year, then the monks go to a local bait shop once each year, purchase as many minnows as they can, and release them. They understand that the bait shop is only being encouraged by their action, but they feel that they must help every living being they can. (Of course, there's the issue of releasing bait fish into a local ecosystem, which can be horribly damaging, but that's not my point of bringing up this group's actions, so we're going to forget about it for now)
This group has my utmost respect, as do all of you who rescue bettas.
The issue isn't what we do, it's what Petco, Petsmart, Walmart, and some of the smaller pet shops do that is the problem.

 

I think you make a good point, Amorinthe. I think if we all stopped buying bettas from the stores, then most of the unpurchased bettas would be destroyed, and the fancy betta trade would stop and fancy bettas would gradually become completely extinct, and then no more bettas would have to live in outrageous conditions. But I think unless there's a significant boycotting of bettas from these stores, then it's better to go there and know that at least one will get a good life.

 

I think perhaps the first step in removing temptation is just to stop going there!

I also think it's an age thing - as we get older we see more to the value of a dollar than ten dimes. I think age brings an understanding that our spending is also a message, and we define our world with not only our votes, and our actions in the world, but how we speak and how we spend our money.

and with that, i'm going to watch spaceballs on cable and watch my corys chase the betta.

 

I think this is an interesting point. Many here say that you shouldn't buy fish that have been dyed because it is supporting the practice of it...so is buying bettas that are kept in dirty little cups supporting that practice?

 

Deathco has lost our business completely now and we'll happily send anyone to someplace else. of all the chains we've personally visited at least a few stores of, they're by far the worst.. although we did find a LFS that was worse than them in jacksonville.

 

Yep, and balloon mollies. Balloon mollies are fish that are selectively bred for their severe scoliosis (spine bend). This gives them that cute squished look of theirs. Unfortunately, their life expectancy is reduced because of it, as their internal organs are also squished. They're also known to be commonly susceptible to trouble during birthing. Many will die after giving birth. I didn't know that when I bought mine and she's since become my favorite fish, but I'll not buy another one again.

I think this is an interesting point. Many here say that you shouldn't buy fish that have been dyed because it is supporting the practice of it...so is buying bettas that are kept in dirty little cups supporting that practice?

 

'dillo -

I had no idea about the mollies. I look at a lot of the fish at the lfs and think, "that can't be natural". Usually it's the very fancy goldfish that freak me out.

It's hard to believe, with the ethical quality of people in this forum, that there are practices like this out there at all. I suppose when we live in a world that still closes it's eyes in the face of genocide (and other things not suitable for a family forum) betta's in cups are the least of our worries. :'(

 

very true. life isn't exactly a highly valued thing, it would seem.

 

Well to me it's all about desensitisation and/or misinformation. But you know, we still need to live a life that's not thoroughly guilt-ridden. I am not ready to make that step to veganism, for example. Nor am I a huuuugely committed ecologist. I feel bad about it, but I just don't feel I want to sacrifice everything everywhere. The good news is that I rationalise the fact that different people will make different ethical choices than me just like that: they've either chosen not to spend their energy on it (which is fair enough to a certain degree, we all do it) or they didn't know.

I just would hate to make anyone feel guilty about it. Especially that I have a balloon molly, and that she's had 2 batches of fry, so am going to encourage that trade again by giving these to my LFS.

'dillo -

I had no idea about the mollies. I look at a lot of the fish at the lfs and think, "that can't be natural". Usually it's the very fancy goldfish that freak me out.

It's hard to believe, with the ethical quality of people in this forum, that there are practices like this out there at all. I suppose when we live in a world that still closes it's eyes in the face of genocide (and other things not suitable for a family forum) betta's in cups are the least of our worries. :'(

 

yea, once life exists, we should care for it.. so i'm in favor of that.. those little fry deserve a chance to live a happy fish life and the little balloon livebearers really are cute little fish.

 

I didn't know that about those mollies either.

I didn't know about dyed fish before buying mine, but I really don't regret getting them. They've been happily living in my tank for around 7 months. They're sweethearts. I'm glad they have a nice life now. Yet, some people think I'm horrible for having supported the practice of dying fish. :-\

 

Well am not even sure that boycotting the balloon mollies is the right thing to do, you know. It's just my personal decision. I REALLY dont' judge if you don't do it. What do I know?

How did you get the dyed fish?

 

I bought them at the LFS we bought my tank and everything from. I'd never heard of dying fish, I had no idea. They're tetras, blueberry and a strawberry, named them Jack and Meg. I have three other tetras (black skirt and two red eyes), and they all school together. They're a nice little group.

 

How would you have known? It's not like you went out of your way to get the dyed fish, hey. I can imagine you going to a pet store and going: 'no, not that one. I want one that reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally suffered' ;D

 

yea, no reason to say you support the practice when you didn't know. something like that never occured to me and I still can't understand why someone thought it was a good idea to dye a fish. and the balloon livebearers are really cute.. we love our little platy girls and they may have a shorter lifespan, but it will be a happy, spoiled one. although i'm still uncertain on taking them on the plane to denver - I hope it's not too much for them, they're so little. :-\

 

ech - I'm sort of two minds about this. If you're going to indulge the money that most people do in fish keeping....don't you do some research? I'm not judging....you are pulled in the directions that you're supposed to go by the strings of life......but I refuse to belive anyone on this forum could make this mistake more than once.

Poor babies.

 

I think a lot of us research.. but then we go to the store and next thing we know we're back home with fish we hadn't planned on buying.

 

Mmmmh, I can see it easily happening. When you say to the petstore: please hold this one for us until we've researched it, they just shrug and they think: 'Whatever...'. Hey, Sabi? (latest example with her zebra pleco). Sometimes you act on impulse + it's not the end of the world for the one individual fish whose trade we're supposed to boycot and whom we purchased by mistake, if you take good care of it.

 

We all hate to see those poor Bettas in cups in the pet store. I'm really partial to the females, they get worse treatment than the males. There are conflicting reports, but some say that female Betta can co-exist peacefulyl if there are enough of them in a large enough space. They form a hierarchy and go about their business.

I have a 30 gallon bow front tank and I'm thinking of stocking it with about 12 female Bettas rescued from PetsMart and Petco. This would be a female Betta only tank. No other species.

What do you think?

Zambize

 

It's not something I would try.
I've heard of a couple people having luck with sorority tanks, but I think there are more disaster stories than success stories.

Bettas really are solitary fish, and most prefer it that way.
That said, it depends on the betta as to whether it would accept tank mates.
Unless you're prepared to have 12 other tanks available should things not work out, my advise is not to try it.

It's a nice thought though, rescuing all the bettas!

 

With females they're pretty much always fine together IF they've been raised together and never separated. As soon as they get a space of their own that's when they become territorial and it can be very hard to get them to live with others after that without a lot of fighting and aggression. Like Lucy said, at that point it pretty much depends on the individual fish, some are inherently a lot more aggressive than others. Mixing girls that have been in cups is pretty risky. Females from a community tank... less so. If you do try it make sure to have a backup plan in case things go badly!

 

I will probably get flamed for this, but

as long as people keep buying bettas from places that sell them in cups,

stores are going to sell them in cups.

 

No flames coming from here, you're right.

To me it's a double edged sword, unless you can get everyone
everywhere to stop buying bettas in cups from every conceivable place that sells them, it's just not going to happen.

With that said, if people who don't know proper betta care buy them they're doomed to a life in a cold bowl or worse, used for fighting. So people who do care buy them to give them a better life.

Sad, if a store kept puppies or kittens like that people wouldn't buy them and they'd soon stop selling them.

 

I agree with Dino on the logic.

The good thing about business and the principles that govern the way those businesses is that you can use those principles against them. If you can just make it not profitable, or even just not AS profitable, for them to do something then they are much less likely to continue that practice. These are random numbers, but say WalMart makes $400,000 a day world wide on betta splenden sales, if they see a cut in that number to say $390,000 then it won't do much; However, if they saw that number go down to $200,000 or even lower then the "big wigs" would start to pay attention and say, "That ain't so profitable anymore, lets use the money we previously invested in that to research and develop a new method to expand our business to whatever the craze of today is."

 

I agree with not supporting the stores that carry Bettas in cups. But that only works on a large scale and I would not contribute to their cruelty on a meaningful (relative term) level.

The reality is that we are in the minority when it comes to understanding Betta and the vast majority of people will continue to buy Bettas in cups. The handful of us refusing to buy these Bettas will not stop the big stores. So unless we band together and work tirelessly on a large scale to stop the large pet stores, then we are doing nothing to end the suffering of these fish. But on a small scale, we may be able to stop the suffering for a fish or two if we rescue one from time to time.

It's tough, but either way we are all in agreement that these stores should not be allowed to continue the treatment of these fish.

Zambize

 

Oh, and back to the question at hand, LOL. I completely agree that keeping more than one Betta together is way less than ideal. I'm trying to consider the fish's options that are in the store right now. The females in these large pet stores are treated worse than the males. The only reason to put a male and female together is to responsibly breed them -- and no responsible breeder gets their fish from these stores. These females are likely sold to clueless people who think it would be "nice" to have a male and female together or think it would be "cute" to have little babies. Subsequently, one or both fish die.

My theory is that this is the fate of these fish, or they can try a large community of female Betta at my house. Not ideal, but I was hoping that the large number of them would keep some peace. I know, they may or may not be "happy", but neither are dogs doomed to live their lives in a long-term shelter or sanctuary. Better than dead or abused? I'm still not sure...

Now that someone mentioned it, I do remember reading that it is primarily females raised together that may (or may not) live together successfully. Thinking out of the box here, I had another thought. If you have a group of cranky dogs, you can often add a larger more dominant dog (not *aggressive*) that will stop any in-fighting when it starts. I've seen something similar in tanks between species of fish. I'm wondering if there is a fish out there, maybe twice the size of the Bettas, that isn't aggressive, but also won't take any that would help keep some semblance of peace. Ideas?

Maybe I've just got good reasons/intentions to take on a project that will only cause more anguish than seeing the little fish in cups at the store....

Zambize

 

I know, they may or may not be "happy", but neither are dogs doomed to live their lives in a long-term shelter or sanctuary. Better than dead or abused? I'm still not sure...

I'm not sure you could POSSIBLY make this statement. Let's take Michael Vick's dogs as our example. You're stating that it would be better to have them fight in rings for a blood sport, than have most of those dogs living in Best Friends Animal Santuary in Utah? I can't help but think that you've never come face to face with a situation like to make an assumption like you have.

 

Amanda,

I think you read too much into my statement. That's obviously not what I meant at all. In fact, I founded and operated a no-kill animal shelter for 6 years that is still in operation. Not to mention numerous other involvements that I won't go into. I know extremely well what it is like for a dog to live in a shelter, that's why I used the example. I'm thinking that your comment was quick and emotional and that you don't really believe that I would prefer a dog bathed in blood in the ring over living in Kanab at Best Friends.

The topic, and my point, is whether these female Betta would be better off where they will likely go when bought from PetsMart, or in my not-so-ideal-but-compassionate 30 gallon female Betta tank.

Zambize

 

There have been people succeed with 2-5 female bettas in a tank that size and there have been those that failed. I think the only way to know for sure is to try it.


I think you could probably make it work, if you put enough thought into obstacles such as floating plants that have dense roots to block views and that sort of stuff.

 

I agree with Chief. I bet you could put a few females in there with lots of plants and hidey holes... Like a betta jungle! Then it wouldn't be so terribly hard to separate them where as 12 separate tanks would be hard. Maybe watch as closely as possible for aggression and if one girl is picking on the others too much remove her and see how it goes.

I've always been curious to see if it would work. I think it's all about the temperament of the females and how they do together. Maybe if they were sisters and had been raised together... Although this totally kills the petco idea. I've seen some groups of females on Aquabid that have been raised together.

And be prepared to separate them if necessary.

I do agree about the cup thing. As long as people buy them, they're going to keep selling them. I had this discussion with the owner of the LFS I like the most. I was talking about bettas in cups and he said that if he didn't sell them, they'd just be sold elsewhere. Unfortunately it comes down to money, but it is a business and it's nice to see the LFS still running and not all consumed by the almighty chain store. As much as I dislike the cups, I know that my 1st boy has a nice home now and I hope that the other fish have as comfortable lives as possible.

 

You could always divide it in 6 if you don't try sorioty!

 

We've brought home pet store Bettas and as much as I support anyone who does and would love to give every one of them a home, I can't give them any more of our Money. I agree with Dino and I'd like to see the end of live fish being carried at Walmart.

 

Agree with Dino and CWC. The last bettas I got were at Deathco and it was fate -- I had to get a heater because mine broke and the good LFS was closed already... I tried very hard to avoid the betta cups but Esteban was sitting right there on top of a Goldfish tank like someone had forgotten him there... I just had to save him. But in the end, I just can't condone the keeping of bettas in cups, and my money shows support for it when I buy them.
I have seen LFSs that keep female bettas for sale in large community tanks, sometimes even with other species of fish. It's possible, just not recommended as they really do have to be raised with one another to allow for betta tankmates.

 

I wish I could stop buying bettas at stores that carry them in cups; however, I have not found one place that keeps them in filtered and heated tanks in my city. I do not know where to go to find a betta who has been raised and treated decently. Even on Aquabid, many of the breeders keep their bettas in jars or cups because they have so many of them. Does anyone have any more suggestions as to where we can find bettas who have been treated well. I may be wrong, but I bet I'm not the only one who sees bettas in cups no matter what LFS they go to......

 

We can't go near 'the cups'.. or I'll probably be setting up another Betta tank. :helpsmilie:

 

The difference with breeders though is that they keep their bettas in much larger jars than the cups you see (pretty much min I've heard from anyone is around 1/2 gallon, which is what I use for my youngsters... my adults are much more spoiled ), and actually change their water! Usually every day or 2, depending on container size, % water change, etc. Most breeders, especially hobby breeders, are in it for the love of the fish, and do their utmost to give their juvies the very best care within what is actually feasible in terms of housing and maintaining larger numbers, while stores selling them in cups could care less about the health and well being of their fish.
You're not going to find a male betta anywhere that has never seen the inside of a jar, just can't be done with aggressive lil guys like they are. But there is a huge difference between a clean 1/2 gallon jar and a tiny cup that never has its water changed.

 

Thanks for the answer to my question. Very well said I have no problem ordering a betta from a breeder and its good to know that their bettas are taken care of much better than at the LFS

 

Well I can't speak for all breeders... there are commercial breeders that produce huge #'s of bettas for profit. But if you're getting from a hobby breeder (who is generally losing money, sometimes a lot!) they're doing it because they love the fish and you can feel pretty certain they've done their best to give their juvies the best care they can.