Betta Picture of Illness? White Scale on Scales & Fins

Hi everyone. Original parameters below.

Please see attached photos. I haven't been able to get such a good close up of our betta named Happy (10 months old) until just now.

We noticed extreme sluggishness 10 days ago. Since then we've tried treating for constipation - including today with an Epsom salt bath, tried feeding him daphnia (but he did not want to eat it) and are running a course of Melafix. He was responsive to food but that has declined.

Nothing seems to make him better. But he's still with us as of right now...

Any clues in the attached photos? Appears to be some white scale on his fins and scales. Does this look like any illness/condition? Thank you!

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 2.5
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? No
What temperature is your tank? 78.4
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

Food:
What food brand do you use? Aqueon Pro Betta Formula
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried? No
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? Twice a day, 2 pellets each time - but have fasted him for three days now.

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Every other week
What percentage of water did you change? 25-50%
What is the source of your water? Tap
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Dip out
What additives do you use other than conditioner? What brand of conditioner? Essentials Complete Water Filter

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water before the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0 to 0.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0 to less than 20
pH: 7.2 Neutral
Hardness (GH): 75 to 150, closer to 150
Alkalinity (KH): Moderate around 80

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? Thursday 11/19
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Can’t really tell, possible small divot on top of his head. He may have had what looked to be a string hanging off him towards the back a couple of days ago but it is gone.
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? “Happy” is still eating but has suddenly become very lethargic over the past week. He’s hanging out mostly at the top of the tank, right next to where the water comes out of the filter.
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? No
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? Yes, a couple of lethargic episodes possibly Ick and was treated
How long have you owned your Betta? 10 months
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? Not that we know of

Attachments

 

Hi everyone. Original parameters below.

Please see attached photos. I haven't been able to get such a good close up of our betta named Happy (10 months old) until just now.

We noticed extreme sluggishness 10 days ago. Since then we've tried treating for constipation - including today with an Epsom salt bath, tried feeding him daphnia (but he did not want to eat it) and are running a course of Melafix. He was responsive to food but that has declined.

Nothing seems to make him better. But he's still with us as of right now...

Any clues in the attached photos? Appears to be some white scale on his fins and scales. Does this look like any illness/condition? Thank you!

Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 2.5
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? No
What temperature is your tank? 78.4
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

Food:
What food brand do you use? Aqueon Pro Betta Formula
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried? No
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? Twice a day, 2 pellets each time - but have fasted him for three days now.

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Every other week
What percentage of water did you change? 25-50%
What is the source of your water? Tap
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Dip out
What additives do you use other than conditioner? What brand of conditioner? Essentials Complete Water Filter

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water before the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0 to 0.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0 to less than 20
pH: 7.2 Neutral
Hardness (GH): 75 to 150, closer to 150
Alkalinity (KH): Moderate around 80

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? Thursday 11/19
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Can’t really tell, possible small divot on top of his head. He may have had what looked to be a string hanging off him towards the back a couple of days ago but it is gone.
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? “Happy” is still eating but has suddenly become very lethargic over the past week. He’s hanging out mostly at the top of the tank, right next to where the water comes out of the filter.
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? No
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? Yes, a couple of lethargic episodes possibly Ick and was treated
How long have you owned your Betta? 10 months
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? Not that we know of




Attachments

Is that how full your tank normally is? Bettas NEED at least a 5g so please upgrade if possible. Do you dechlorinate your water? Did you cycle the tank?

 

Is that how full your tank normally is? Bettas NEED at least a 5g so please upgrade if possible. Do you dechlorinate your water? Did you cycle the tank?

Sorry for not clarifying - that was a recovery tank for the epsom salt bath. It was the best opportunity I've had to get a good picture.

Normally he's in a 2.5 gallon Aqueon Mini Bow with filter and heater.

Tank water is always treated and dechlorinated, yes.

And yes again - we've done a few water swaps (about 25%) over the past 10 days, but stopped that three days ago to follow the Melafix recommendation.

 

I’m guessing a water quality issue.

As AcornTheBetta said, it looks like there’s only about a gallon of water in the bowl. Partial water changes should be done at least once a week, not every other week.

Unless you know what you’re treating, I would stop medicating and focus on water quality.

 

Sorry for not clarifying - that was a recovery tank for the epsom salt bath. It was the best opportunity I've had to get a good picture.

Normally he's in a 2.5 gallon Aqueon Mini Bow with filter and heater.

Tank water is always treated and dechlorinated, yes.

And yes again - we've done a few water swaps (about 25%) over the past 10 days, but stopped that three days ago to follow the Melafix recommendation.

Oh. Is the tank cycled?

NO MELAFIX! It hurt labyrinth fish such as bettas. Please stop Melafix treatment ASAP and do a large water change (50%) to remove it from the water.

 

I'm open to the water change, but there does not appear to be a water quality issue based on the initial parameters. The fish was totally fine until 10 days ago. Do you have any thoughts on the white stuff on his fins and scales?

 

I'm open to the water change, but there does not appear to be a water quality issue based on the initial parameters. The fish was totally fine until 10 days ago. Do you have any thoughts on the white stuff on his fins and scales?

Maybe fungus...

 

Maybe fungus...

Okay, thanks. Is there a way to diagnose the fungus - and if it is, how do you treat it? Thanks for your help!

 

I'm open to the water change, but there does not appear to be a water quality issue based on the initial parameters. The fish was totally fine until 10 days ago. Do you have any thoughts on the white stuff on his fins and scales?

In the grand scheme of things that can affect water quality, you (and most all fish keepers) test for just a few of them.

 

Hi everyone. Original parameters below.

Please see attached photos. I haven't been able to get such a good close up of our betta named Happy (10 months old) until just now.

We noticed extreme sluggishness 10 days ago. Since then we've tried treating for constipation - including today with an Epsom salt bath, tried feeding him daphnia (but he did not want to eat it) and are running a course of Melafix. He was responsive to food but that has declined.

Nothing seems to make him better. But he's still with us as of right now...

Any clues in the attached photos? Appears to be some white scale on his fins and scales. Does this look like any illness/condition? Thank you!

Also, link to a short video here




Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 2.5
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? No
What temperature is your tank? 78.4
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

Food:
What food brand do you use? Aqueon Pro Betta Formula
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried? No
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? Twice a day, 2 pellets each time - but have fasted him for three days now.

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Every other week
What percentage of water did you change? 25-50%
What is the source of your water? Tap
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Dip out
What additives do you use other than conditioner? What brand of conditioner? Essentials Complete Water Filter

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water before the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0 to 0.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0 to less than 20
pH: 7.2 Neutral
Hardness (GH): 75 to 150, closer to 150
Alkalinity (KH): Moderate around 80

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? Thursday 11/19
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Can’t really tell, possible small divot on top of his head. He may have had what looked to be a string hanging off him towards the back a couple of days ago but it is gone.
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? “Happy” is still eating but has suddenly become very lethargic over the past week. He’s hanging out mostly at the top of the tank, right next to where the water comes out of the filter.
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? No
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? Yes, a couple of lethargic episodes possibly Ick and was treated
How long have you owned your Betta? 10 months
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? Not that we know of




Attachments

Just curious because your parameters show .5 for ammonia. Do you change out your cartridge filters?

 

Just curious because your parameters show .5 for ammonia. Do you change out your cartridge filters?

Yes, change those every couple of weeks.

 

Yes, change those every couple of weeks.

Ok so essentially your fish in cycling your fish every time you do that which is bad for your fish. I would change them every few months and leave the old one in for a week or two WITH the new one so that the beneficial bacteria transfers from the old one to the new one.


NO MELAFIX! It hurt labyrinth fish such as bettas. Please stop Melafix treatment ASAP and do a large water change (50%) to remove it from the water.

 

Yes, change those every couple of weeks.

Not sure why companies still advertise for hobbyists to change the cartridges but you really only need to change it when it’s falling apart, and even then make sure that you put the new cartridge in with the old one for at least a week. This way the good bacteria will begin growing on the new cartridge. Not sure if this is what’s making your fish sick but might be.

Essentially what’s happening is you are throwing out the ammonia eating bacteria that lives on the filter cartridges. For now I would do 50% water changes daily until your ammonia/nitrites hit 0 and then do what AcornTheBetta and I recommend with the cartridges

 

Not sure why companies still advertise for hobbyists to change the cartridges but you really only need to change it when it’s falling apart, and even then make sure that you put the new cartridge in with the old one for at least a week. This way the good bacteria will begin growing on the new cartridge. Not sure if this is what’s making your fish sick but might be.

Essentially what’s happening is you are throwing out the ammonia eating bacteria that lives on the filter cartridges.

Okay, thank you re: cartridge. Yes, Aqueon suggested every 2-3 weeks or so, so that's why we were swapping out.

Whether or not it's a coincidence, we may have had the cartridge in upside down for a couple of days prior to all of this starting. Is it possible this could have caused the issue?

If so, what would you recommend from this point? Stop all meds, do a 50% change and reinsert the cartridge?

 

Hi everyone. Original parameters below.

Please see attached photos. I haven't been able to get such a good close up of our betta named Happy (10 months old) until just now.

We noticed extreme sluggishness 10 days ago. Since then we've tried treating for constipation - including today with an Epsom salt bath, tried feeding him daphnia (but he did not want to eat it) and are running a course of Melafix. He was responsive to food but that has declined.

Nothing seems to make him better. But he's still with us as of right now...

Any clues in the attached photos? Appears to be some white scale on his fins and scales. Does this look like any illness/condition? Thank you!

Also, link to a short video here




Housing:
How many gallons is your tank? 2.5
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? No
What temperature is your tank? 78.4
Does your tank have an air stone or other type of aeration? Yes
Does your Betta have tank mates? What kind? No

Food:
What food brand do you use? Aqueon Pro Betta Formula
Do you feed flakes or pellets? Pellets
Freeze-dried? No
How often do you feed your Betta? How much? Twice a day, 2 pellets each time - but have fasted him for three days now.

Maintenance:
Before your Betta became ill how often did you perform a water change? Every other week
What percentage of water did you change? 25-50%
What is the source of your water? Tap
Do you vacuum the substrate or just dip out water? Dip out
What additives do you use other than conditioner? What brand of conditioner? Essentials Complete Water Filter

Water Parameters:
What are your water parameters? Please give exact numbers. If tested by pet store please get exact numbers. "Fine" or "Safe" won't help us help you. Important: Test your water before the regular water change; not after one.

Ammonia: 0 to 0.5
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0 to less than 20
pH: 7.2 Neutral
Hardness (GH): 75 to 150, closer to 150
Alkalinity (KH): Moderate around 80

Symptoms and Treatment:
When did you first notice the symptoms? Thursday 11/19
How has your Betta’s appearance changed? Can’t really tell, possible small divot on top of his head. He may have had what looked to be a string hanging off him towards the back a couple of days ago but it is gone.
How has your Betta’s behavior changed? “Happy” is still eating but has suddenly become very lethargic over the past week. He’s hanging out mostly at the top of the tank, right next to where the water comes out of the filter.
Is your Betta still eating? Yes
Have you started treating your Betta? If so, how? No
Does your Betta have any history of being ill? Yes, a couple of lethargic episodes possibly Ick and was treated
How long have you owned your Betta? 10 months
Was he or she ill or suffering some sort of damage when purchased? Not that we know of




Attachments

Another recommendation is after you maintain your ammonia at 0 with daily water changes I’d recommend at least one 50% water change weekly. Food wise, I like to soak my bettas pellets for a few minutes before feeding them... easier for them to digest.

 

Ok so essentially your fish in cycling your fish every time you do that which is bad for your fish. I would change them every few months and leave the old one in for a week or two WITH the new one so that the beneficial bacteria transfers from the old one to the new one.


NO MELAFIX! It hurt labyrinth fish such as bettas. Please stop Melafix treatment ASAP and do a large water change (50%) to remove it from the water.

Okay if I stop the Melafix - and you think it may be fungus - is there a way to treat for that? And then what do I do with the water? Thank you.

Another recommendation is after you maintain your ammonia at 0 with daily water changes I’d recommend at least one 50% water change weekly. Food wise, I like to soak my bettas pellets for a few minutes before feeding them... easier for them to digest.

Okay, thank you. Do you agree that it may be a fungus as Acorn says - or do I just try the water change out?

 

Okay, thank you re: cartridge. Yes, Aqueon suggested every 2-3 weeks or so, so that's why we were swapping out.

Whether or not it's a coincidence, we may have had the cartridge in upside down for a couple of days prior to all of this starting. Is it possible this could have caused the issue?

If so, what would you recommend from this point? Stop all meds, do a 50% change and reinsert the cartridge?

I don’t think that it being in upside down would make a difference. Keep the cartridge in for as long as possible (months) and if you need to rinse it off, you can do so in a cup of old tank water when you do a water change. In my opinion, I would stop the meds and just do daily water changes while keeping an eye on the ammonia.

 

I like doing lists so I will make a list and just try to organize everything

1. IMO your ammonia is too high, get that to zero

2. Your tank is on the small side, bettas should have five gallons.

3. Don’t use melafix, the material in that can damage a betta’s labyrinth organ.

***IMPORTANT*** 4. As mentioned above, you are doing a fish in cycle. Maybe get some bottled bacteria? Maybe you should ask mattgirl???
I put this as important as it would regard your water change question. I don’t know fish in cycle water change amount.

5. I see some copper coloring on your fishes scales. Was that there before?

 

Okay, thank you. Do you agree that it may be a fungus as Acorn says - or do I just try the water change out?

I said could be fungus, but now going back and looking at it, that doesn't seem like what it is. Just cycle your tank and maintain a high water quality and your betta will improve.

 

Okay, thanks..

So it seems the immediate recommendation is to replace 50% of the water, vacuum the substrate and reinsert a filter.

Then beyond that how often should the water be changed?

I like doing lists so I will make a list and just try to organize everything

1. IMO your ammonia is too high, get that to zero

2. Your tank is on the small side, bettas should have five gallons.

3. Don’t use melafix, the material in that can damage a betta’s labyrinth organ.

***IMPORTANT*** 4. As mentioned above, you are doing a fish in cycle. Maybe get some bottled bacteria? Maybe you should ask mattgirl???
I put this as important as it would regard your water change question. I don’t know fish in cycle water change amount.

5. I see some copper coloring on your fishes scales. Was that there before?

Thanks for the info. It looks like others here are suggesting an immediate 50% change out.

As for the copper - can you clarify what you are referring to? And no, whatever it is wasn't there before. Anything I should do for that?

 

When you look at his scales, there is a copper sheen on parts of him. He might have velvet, but I’ve never really seen the scales in that shade. You might want to get a second option.

 

Doing 50% water changes twice a week would be my recommendation for a tank that small. While it really is the absolute minimum for bettas you shouldn’t have to rehome. The copper sheen may be coloring or a sign of velvet.

 

Okay, we've done the water change and will do another tomorrow. He didn't seem to want to eat tonight - we offered him the food, he swam out and looked like he wanted to eat but then swam away.

As for the velvet, is there a way to confirm that diagnosis?

 

Okay, we've done the water change and will do another tomorrow. He didn't seem to want to eat tonight - we offered him the food, he swam out and looked like he wanted to eat but then swam away.

As for the velvet, is there a way to confirm that diagnosis?

Someone who’s actually dealt with velvet before should probably confirm this, but I believe if you shine a flashlight on him and if you see stuff that looks like gold dust all over him then it’s velvet.

 

Update: We tried feeding Happy again this morning and he seems interested in the food but seems to be having some problems swimming, which may be why he's just hiding under the filter. He swam to the food and tried to get at it, but unfortunately it looks like his body is bent to the right, if you are looking at him from above. So he just couldn't reach it at the surface. There may be some bloating in his body - hard to tell - but we did two rounds of peas and even an Epsom salt bath over the past 5-6 days to account for constipation but this didn't seem to help.

This of course is upsetting - our son is too as he was doing the feeding - so maybe it's a swim bladder issue. We are also noticing that his fins may be clamping.

Any further guidance here or are we beyond the point of no return here? We will continue to try the feeding and another water change later, which will total 75% changed over the past two days.

 

Update: We tried feeding Happy again this morning and he seems interested in the food but seems to be having some problems swimming, which may be why he's just hiding under the filter. He swam to the food and tried to get at it, but unfortunately it looks like his body is bent to the right, if you are looking at him from above. So he just couldn't reach it at the surface. There may be some bloating in his body - hard to tell - but we did two rounds of peas and even an Epsom salt bath over the past 5-6 days to account for constipation but this didn't seem to help.

This of course is upsetting - our son is too as he was doing the feeding - so maybe it's a swim bladder issue. We are also noticing that his fins may be clamping.

Any further guidance here or are we beyond the point of no return here? We will continue to try the feeding and another water change later, which will total 75% changed over the past two days.

I’m not an expert in fish illness but I think you’re right that it could be a swim bladder issue. How much were you feeding him before this happened?

 

We were feeding him two pellets, twice a day. Over the past couple of days, we have been trying to feed him. But he swims out from under the filter, takes a look at the food and either is not interested or can't seem to get it. That goes for his usual pellets and a bloodworm treat. Looks at it, seems interested but doesn't eat.

When a pellet floats down in the tank, he has gone after it and one time did eat it, I think.

We're getting a new food tomorrow that was recommended - NorthFin Betta Bits - so we'll see if that works.

 

Just to summarise a way through the various bits of good advice offered here;

He is likely ill with general malaise due to bad water conditions he was exposed to over a long period of time. I'm guessing you changed the filter cartridge out every time you changed the water, which with a water change every other week means the betta was left in an uncycled 2.5 gallons of accumulating toxins for two weeks before the next water change followed. It might have been fine if you'd done weekly water changes of 50%+ or so, but it seems to have been a tad too much.
Domestic bettas are quite adaptable fish but many don't have strong immune systems due to extensive inbreeding. Whether it is too late for the fish or not is hard to tell because it can be difficult to see exactly what ails a fish on the outside if it isn't due to a specific recognisable pathogen. However, if you don't try you'll never know if he had a shot, and it might not be irreversible at all, so it might pay off to keep trying.

I doubt food is the issue. If he doesn't even eat live foods he's simply not feeling well enough to have an appetite. He'll start eating again once he feels better. Meanwhile make sure to try only the tiniest bit of food at a time and remove it immediately if he doesn't eat it - it will decompose in the tank and foul the water otherwise.

An small, potentially uncycled tank with an ill fish should have its water changed 50% every day. Make sure match the temperatures of ingoing and outgoing water so the fish isn't shocked. Clean water is going to make more of a difference than any med you can provide. If you do feel a strong need to dose him with something, I would recommend Methylene Blue or medication containing Methylene Orange (such as Escha 2000). Both are quite harmless meds that works as mild antiseptics against certain bacteria. MB has the added advantage of negating the toxic effects of nitrites if any are present in the water. But again, clean water is going to be the most important.

 

you should never change out your filter cartridges. simply rinse them in tank water and put them back in during water changes.

companies recommend changing filter cartridges because they make money from it. In reality, your beneficial bacteria live on those cartridges.

you are throwing out your cycle every 2-3 weeks by replacing them.

also, 0-0.5 ppm absolutely is cause for concern. Any ammonia reading over 0 is indicative of a crashed cycle and poor water quality. You will need to stop throwing out your filters if you want your betta to recover.

that being said, it is not your fault that you followed instructions from a reputable company. The industry is corrupt and it is really unfortunate. But please do your own research if you are still uncertain. You will find the same advice across every single fish forum in existence. Lots of people have the same problem you are having.

for now, water changes are necessary. you should try to keep that ammonia as low as possible. eventually your tank will re-establish its cycle. just stop throwing out your filters and keep things nice and you should be okay.

I don't see signs of velvet, only stress and damage from being forced to sit through a re-cycling process every 2-3 weeks

good luck and keep us updated!

 

Thank you both for the info. Can you please summarize for me what I should be doing with the water and filter from this point? Note that about 40% of the water was changed 2 days ago.

What additional amount of water should be changed right now, if any? 50%? That's not too much stress?
What should be done over the coming days with the water assuming the fish's condition doesn't improve?
Assuming - hopefully - the fish does improve, how frequently should the water be changed, what percentage each time and how long should the filter remain in before replacing?

 

Thank you both for the info. Can you please summarize for me what I should be doing with the water and filter from this point? Note that about 40% of the water was changed 2 days ago.

What additional amount of water should be changed right now, if any? 50%? That's not too much stress?
What should be done over the coming days with the water assuming the fish's condition doesn't improve?
Assuming - hopefully - the fish does improve, how frequently should the water be changed, what percentage each time and how long should the filter remain in before replacing?

Until the fish starts to look/behave better I would change out roughly half of the water daily or if that is too much effort, every other day. You don't have to worry about stress, if you temp match water well water changes are not stressful to fish at all. Just break the flow of water going into the tank (I hold my hand under the flow so it doesn't toss about everything in the tank) and do not take the fish out of the tank. I know people who keep extremely sensitive fish in a tank that has 90% of its water changed three times a week. It's not a problem.

For the long term: Usual recommendations for a standard tank are to change 20-30% of the water weekly. In the case of a particularly small or overstocked tank, you'll want to change 40-50% of the water weekly.
*Never* replace your filter cartridge/medium/material (whatever kind of spongey or grid or netted or bead-like material you have inside) in full. Unlike suggested on packaging, most material will last years with a quick rinse every now and then to clear out muck that might clog up the water flow. There isn't anything about filter material that goes "bad" over time, so it doesn't really need replacing until years down the line. When you do want to replace your filter, as suggested in an earlier post, replace about half of the medium with the new stuff and leave the other half in, that way it can cycle. Then a week or two later you can replace the old half left. Alternatively, if you want to replace the entire filter you can hang and turn on a brand new filter while the old filter is still running, and leave it running doubly like that for a week or two before removing the old one.

This confusion happens often, even with people who have been in the hobby a while, but remember that the bacteria that make up your tank cycle settle on surfaces. They are not in your water (or at least not in significant quantities), and so changing water does nothing to your cycle while removing porous materials like filter media can kill your entire cycle in one go.

 

Okay, thank you. We just tried feeding the fish again. I even tried breaking up the pellets into smaller pieces but he didn't eat it. It's now been three days since he ate anything, as far as we can tell. He came out to see the food, stared at it but wouldn't eat it.

See attached photos - not sure if this helps, but one is from the top albeit blurry. The other is some sort of white piece that my wife thinks he either spit up or fell from him.

I guess we will proceed with the water changes and possibly the MB, but when do we get concerned about the non-eating?

You'll see in the third picture below what the fish is doing most of the time. Barely moving, in one part of the tank under the filter, looks like he's struggling to breathe but not sure.

 

I don't see anything specific from the pictures other than that the fish is potentially uncomfortable.

Fish can go without food for a week or two until it becomes a serious problem if they were well fed before, I wouldn't fret about it for now. Just like humans lose their appetite when they feel ill, the digestive system requires quite a bit of energy to run (which is why our biorhythms prefer to match it with sleeping and inactivity) and during illness the body would rather spend that energy on the immune system to fight of whatever is attacking it and maintain critical processes. Rather I would leave the fish undisturbed as much as possible outside of the necessary water changes.

Unfortunately I have noticed a blotchy record with ornamental, long-finned bettas (including personal experience) and do not keep them nor recommend others to keep them due to the tendency for things to go sideways with them for no particular reason, likely the result of poor genetics. All you can do is keep water quality as perfect as possible, provide the fish with as little stress as possible, and hope.

As a side note, how is the flow in the tank? Can you hold one of those fake plants near the outlet and see if it is pushed back by the current? It is quite a small tank and bettas really hate flow, it laying behind the filter like that could be in part due to it avoiding the filter outflow (particularly now that it isn't feeling well). Usually for tanks below 5 gallon, sponge filters are a must for labyrinth fish like bettas, especially poor swimmers like the long-finned types.

P.S. as an answer to your last remark in the previous post, bettas are labyrinth fish and are not bothered by low-oxygen water even if that were the case. The only reason for them struggling to breathe would be if they have trouble swimming and reaching the surface combined with low-oxygen water, or if their labyrinth organ itself is damaged.

 

I don't see anything specific from the pictures other than that the fish is potentially uncomfortable.

Fish can go without food for a week or two until it becomes a serious problem if they were well fed before, I wouldn't fret about it for now. Just like humans lose their appetite when they feel ill, the digestive system requires quite a bit of energy to run (which is why our biorhythms prefer to match it with sleeping and inactivity) and during illness the body would rather spend that energy on the immune system to fight of whatever is attacking it and maintain critical processes. Rather I would leave the fish undisturbed as much as possible outside of the necessary water changes.

Unfortunately I have noticed a blotchy record with ornamental, long-finned bettas (including personal experience) and do not keep them nor recommend others to keep them due to the tendency for things to go sideways with them for no particular reason, likely the result of poor genetics. All you can do is keep water quality as perfect as possible, provide the fish with as little stress as possible, and hope.

As a side note, how is the flow in the tank? Can you hold one of those fake plants near the outlet and see if it is pushed back by the current? It is quite a small tank and bettas really hate flow, it laying behind the filter like that could be in part due to it avoiding the filter outflow (particularly now that it isn't feeling well). Usually for tanks below 5 gallon, sponge filters are a must for labyrinth fish like bettas, especially poor swimmers like the long-finned types.

P.S. as an answer to your last remark in the previous post, bettas are labyrinth fish and are not bothered by low-oxygen water even if that were the case. The only reason for them struggling to breathe would be if they have trouble swimming and reaching the surface combined with low-oxygen water, or if their labyrinth organ itself is damaged.

Thanks for the info. We will try to check the flow.

Do you agree that we should be changing 50% of the water or so every day or every other day until we see improvement? We also haven't vacuumed the gravel and could do that to.

If you do think this is a good idea, should we leave the fish in the tank and just work around it, instead of taking him out to a holding tank?

To your point about trying not ot disturb the fish, we want to make sure we are doing the right thing and not making the situation worse.

This has now been going on for nearly two weeks and we feel like we have to do something but it sounds like you agree that there's no need to try another medicine or antibiotic?
Another update: We vacuumed the gravel this morning, changed another gallon of the water (2.5 total tank size) and attempted to feed him again. He MAY have eaten one pellet, but hard to tell. (We tried NorthFin Betta Bits this time but he didn't go for them, they sank pretty quickly too)

The latest behavior is Happy swimming right up next to the spout of the filter. He seems to be struggling to stay in the spot - lots of fin movement. I shut off the filter for a second to see if he would stay there and he did. Not sure what this indicates. See photos attached and photos of him above.

Link to video of this as well: Happy Swimming By Filter

Most of his behavior is just staying towards the top of the tank with his face pressed against a corner or the filter area. Or, he is seating himself on the top of a plastic plant. Seems that he is having trouble swimming or fighting the current?

 

Thanks for the info. We will try to check the flow.

Do you agree that we should be changing 50% of the water or so every day or every other day until we see improvement? We also haven't vacuumed the gravel and could do that to.

If you do think this is a good idea, should we leave the fish in the tank and just work around it, instead of taking him out to a holding tank?

To your point about trying not ot disturb the fish, we want to make sure we are doing the right thing and not making the situation worse.

This has now been going on for nearly two weeks and we feel like we have to do something but it sounds like you agree that there's no need to try another medicine or antibiotic?

Yes, change the water as often as you can. You can try to vacuum the gravel if you want but don't "deep" clean the tank too much (as in cleaning all the glass and rocks and substrate at once) as bacteria settle on surfaces and keeping your tank surfaces too clean can also disturb the cycle.

Yes, it is absolutely not recommended to take out your fish when changing water. The fish can potentially receive from this drastic change in environment, plus how much such a tiny body of water can cool off while you have it sitting on a table somewhere is *far* worse than the mild bit of disturbance a water change in the tank causes. In fact I'd say my fish like water changes, it's perhaps a bit like heavy rainfall to have a bunch of new water poured into their tank. They seem to associate it with the arrival of fresh food as they tend to go scavenging directly after a water change.

Opinions on this will vary but I'm not a big fan of fish medication, for various reason but in a specific individual case you might want to consider the following. As I've mentioned before, it can be very hard to diagnose what is ailing a fish that isn't showing the symptoms of a handful of easily identifiable pathogens (like ich or saddleback disease). Many fish treatments, in particular antibiotics, take a heavy toll on fish, particularly their immune system (as they do in humans) and the organs responsible for filtering toxins out of blood. Most fish meds that are advertised as universal cures do nothing constructive, most fish meds that do work only work against specific pathogens or ailments - even antibiotics are usually effective against subgroups of bacteria and not very effective at dealing with those that fall outside the subgroup.
In other words, medicating a fish without a proper diagnosis of the specific ailment, which is often impossible with a lab, carries very high odds of doing more harm than good. Hence it is better to just not medicate and leave the fish to deal with it on its own. The few rare exceptions to this rule include tannins for acid-loving fish. Tannins are biological byproducts of certain decaying biological matter, in particular the properly dried leaves of deciduous trees, alder cones, wood and bark of certain trees, and so on. They work as a mild antiseptic and in general bettas seem to appreciate tannin-stained water. It has no negative side effects other than that some people don't like the colour in their tanks. You can stain your aquarium water in this way by obtaining aquarium-safe dried leaves such as Indian Almond leaves that you can buy in aquarium shops, or properly dried oak, maple or beech leaves from outside, as long as you know there to be no pesticides on them.
Methylene Blue is another of those exceptions as it seems to carry little side effects and not really burden fish even at several times the recommended dosage. On the downside, both of these measures are not very effective at treating already present bacterial problems. Tannins are good as a preventative measure; MB is the go-to medication for nitrite poisoning and can be used to clean external wounds on the fish, but isn't all that effective against internal bacterial infections.

 

Yes, change the water as often as you can. You can try to vacuum the gravel if you want but don't "deep" clean the tank too much (as in cleaning all the glass and rocks and substrate at once) as bacteria settle on surfaces and keeping your tank surfaces too clean can also disturb the cycle.

Yes, it is absolutely not recommended to take out your fish when changing water. The fish can potentially receive from this drastic change in environment, plus how much such a tiny body of water can cool off while you have it sitting on a table somewhere is *far* worse than the mild bit of disturbance a water change in the tank causes. In fact I'd say my fish like water changes, it's perhaps a bit like heavy rainfall to have a bunch of new water poured into their tank. They seem to associate it with the arrival of fresh food as they tend to go scavenging directly after a water change.

Opinions on this will vary but I'm not a big fan of fish medication, for various reason but in a specific individual case you might want to consider the following. As I've mentioned before, it can be very hard to diagnose what is ailing a fish that isn't showing the symptoms of a handful of easily identifiable pathogens (like ich or saddleback disease). Many fish treatments, in particular antibiotics, take a heavy toll on fish, particularly their immune system (as they do in humans) and the organs responsible for filtering toxins out of blood. Most fish meds that are advertised as universal cures do nothing constructive, most fish meds that do work only work against specific pathogens or ailments - even antibiotics are usually effective against subgroups of bacteria and not very effective at dealing with those that fall outside the subgroup.
In other words, medicating a fish without a proper diagnosis of the specific ailment, which is often impossible with a lab, carries very high odds of doing more harm than good. Hence it is better to just not medicate and leave the fish to deal with it on its own. The few rare exceptions to this rule include tannins for acid-loving fish. Tannins are biological byproducts of certain decaying biological matter, in particular the properly dried leaves of deciduous trees, alder cones, wood and bark of certain trees, and so on. They work as a mild antiseptic and in general bettas seem to appreciate tannin-stained water. It has no negative side effects other than that some people don't like the colour in their tanks. You can stain your aquarium water in this way by obtaining aquarium-safe dried leaves such as Indian Almond leaves that you can buy in aquarium shops, or properly dried oak, maple or beech leaves from outside, as long as you know there to be no pesticides on them.
Methylene Blue is another of those exceptions as it seems to carry little side effects and not really burden fish even at several times the recommended dosage. On the downside, both of these measures are not very effective at treating already present bacterial problems. Tannins are good as a preventative measure; MB is the go-to medication for nitrite poisoning and can be used to clean external wounds on the fish, but isn't all that effective against internal bacterial infections.

Thanks for the response.

He finally did a little bit - two pellets -yesterday but still is spending most of his time just hanging around the top of the tank. When we shut off the filter, he seems to have an easier time - not struggling as much against the current but still at the top of the tank.

We may swap out the electric filter with a bubble filter to see if that makes it easier for him.

This has been going on for over two weeks. Is it fair to say if there was some sort of ailment - bacterial, fungal or otherwise - and we had only treated with Melafix for a few days, he wouldn't have made it this long?

Just feels like it's a long time and he hasn't shown much improvement. Not sure how long it will take for him to turn around or if he will, which is why I have this desire to try some other options (meds).
Some more photos we just took and a short 30 second video a short time ago. For anyone who looks at this, notice the loss of coloration right near his gills and in what would be the chin area. Also the white chalkiness on his fins. He is still just floating around the tank at the surface. Today he didn't eat anything.

Not sure if this is anything, but when he opens his gills, I see a blood red spot behind them - not on the gill themselves but inside.

Just did some additional water testing with the API freshwater kit. pH did come in at 7.6 and high pH 8.0-8.2. I think these are out of range and I am guessing need to be corrected fast. But nothing has really changed with our water supply (which we condition before adding to the tank) as far as we know.

Photos attached, video here. Thanks!

 

Unfortunately, the duration of the illness is no sure indication of anything. Some of the scarier bacterial tank pathogens can take months to kill fish. Some pathogens can be slowed tremendously by circumstances (e.g. temperature or PH) without actually affecting the fish' odds of survival. This isn't to scare you though, just pointing out that it isn't a basis for any sort of conclusion.
Also melafix is a pointless medication. Like virtually all of those meds ending in -fix, they belong to that category of meds I described before that are advertised as broad-spectrum but in actual fact don't treat anything at all. They consist of some homeopathic oils that don't have any scientific basis and furthermore, some aquarists have even suggested they might sooner harm than treat a fish. Fish generally have pretty strong immune systems (probably because unlike humans that routinely breathe in some cold viruses and not much else), they constantly take in all these potentially very harmful bacteria through their gills. If they didn't have the means to fight them off without human-concocted 'cough syrup', they wouldn't be able to survive in the wild either. In short, by the time a fish is ailed by a specific, threatening pathogen it will be in need of very strong, specific meds to be able to help it at all instead of harming its odds further.

That is to say, in my experience bettas can also often look and behave like yours if they have been exposed long-term to bad conditions, but can definitely bounce back with good care and pristine water. But again, it is basically impossible to distinguish between this and the less rosier prospect. You just have to try your hardest and get lucky.
It can be really hard to see markings on a fancy-coloured betta in photos. You yourself who can see the fish is in a better place to judge. Is it possible the fish has ich? This would look like salt or snowy dusting on the fish, and it would intermittently disappear and reappear throughout the weeks.

Sudden PH shift is odd. Have you tested your tap water since it occurred? If not, see if you can test for KH (alkalinity, not GH/general hardness). If your KH is low, your tank can be subject to rapid PH shifts which are definitely not good for a fish.

 

Thanks. I've started a course of General Cure and Furan-2 running at the same time. I don't think I am supposed to change the water until the treatments run their course.

I emailed quite a bit with API today - they do not think it's ick or parasitic; maybe bacterial but that's a guess.

Unfortunately, he seems to be deteriorating further. Minimal activity today, mostly just hanging out at the top of the tank with lots of bubbles. The ammonia reading may be 0.25 ppm but API says that shoud still be ok - and I presume may be caused by the medications? pH seems to be 7.6-8.0 but that's been stable. I have some pH down but I know adding it can be stressful for the fish.

Short video here.

 

I added a smidge of the Seachem last night (2.5 gallon tank). I just retested the ammonia a short time ago and it still appears to be at 0.25ppm. Could all the meds be counteracting the Seachem and keeping the ammonia higher than recommended?

As for pH - I can't say for sure if it's always been that high. The town did apparently change the water mixture a few weeks back. At that time I was testing with test strips that didn't indicate an issue - now the API Freshwater Kit is pointing to about 7.6-8.0 So, I can't say for certain if anything changed.

Should I add any pH down in too?

Today he continued to show minimal activity, a few time he was on his side. I'm supposed to change out 25% of the water now and do another dose of the Furan, as per that medicine's instruction.

He ate a pellet yesterday but I'm still wondering if he's constipated?

Any further thoughts? Doesn't seem like anything is working, unfortunately.

 

If you have daphnia/ 1/4 unskinned peas you can give that to him.