I agree with BettaMum☝ If you’re going to try another treatment, I’d give it a 1, 2 PUNCH with the Kanaplex and Furan-2 My only concern is that he’s been treated with a few other meds recently and wouldn’t want to over do it and do more harm than good by damaging his little kidneys. I’ve used this atomic combo on my Betta before and within a few days he was 75% more active than he had been (which wasn’t much at all, he hid in his log most of the time) and his appetite increased greatly. I also did daily 30 min dips in Betta Revive, but that was out of desperation and I’m not sure if that helped at all or not.I know that Furan 2 works better when used in combination with Kanamycin. Have you tried both at the same time?
Hmm... I dunno. I did notice that my betta Zeus likes to kinda hang out in the crook of his heater at times and isn't so busy. Other times he's swimming around like crazy even building a bubble nest or two. Maybe he's just vegging out a little?By the way, he seems to be a bit better this morning. He's more active, swimming all over his tank. But not yet his normal crazy, feisty self. What does anyone think about this being related to his age? He's going on 13 months old. Could he be going through some kind of normal aging phase?
I'd at least get the Kanaplex ordered. How bad is he? Does it seem to be progressing quickly? I guess I'd guage my response on that. If he's doing ok I'd order the Kanaplex and continue water changes and maybe put some stress guard in there and give him a couple of days. You can continue to use Stress Guard while you give the antibiotics according to my local fish specialty store - they said it would help.
Did you ever reach any conclusion as to his diagnosis?Honestly, his condition is confusing me. The last couple days he's seemed pretty bad. Spending most of his time on the bottom, motionless and with breathing a little labored. Otherwise he's hiding behind his filter, motionless. He was never one to stay still for long. He had so much energy and vigor and was hardly ever on the bottom. But then this morning, he's a little more active. Maybe the Paraguard is finally starting top help? He did seem to be getting better when I started doing daily water changes + salt baths. His behavior was still ok and the white discoloration on his scales seemed to lose opacity and shrink in size. But then he went downhill with the lethargy in about 2 days.
I'm hesitant to use Stress Guard again. I used up a full bottle on him a few months ago when he had a small injury on his scales. I ended up using it all because I kept watching for ANY improvement. I couldn't tell that it helped at all. After it was used up, his injury just slowly healed up over time on its own. Because of that, I don't have much faith in Stress Guard. I'm seeing what all I can learn about Kanaplex from you all today. I'll order it very soon if I'm going to get it.
Hmm... I dunno. I did notice that my betta Zeus likes to kinda hang out in the crook of his heater at times and isn't so busy. Other times he's swimming around like crazy even building a bubble nest or two. Maybe he's just vegging out a little?
Did you ever reach any conclusion as to his diagnosis?
What the fish folks at my local store told me was that the stress guard just helps to replace their slime coat. Apparently, their slime coat can get a bit messed up when you medicate and this will help maintain that and help them tolerate the medication better. They're a specialty store (Like imagine a hole in the wall looking store in a burned out section of town, you go in and there are wall to wall tanks!) and really seem to know their stuff so I'm inclined to trust them.
I got my Kanaplex from Amazon - comes in two days with Prime. American Aquarium Products carries as well, and they have a good delivery time too. They also carry Spectrogram which is synergistic Furan and Kanamycin together in one product. The combination of Furan 2 and Kanaplex should knock out anything - they work better in combination with each other than separately. It can be a bit hard on fishy kidneys so I would give a bit of a break if you can. You do a five day cycle - Day one - Water change, Furan 2 and Kanaplex; Day two - Furan 2; Day 3 Water change, Furan 2 and Kanaplex; Day Four, Furan 2; Day Five - water change Furan 2 and Kanaplex. (Yeah it's an extra dose of Furan 2) Zeus seem to respond very well to treatment although I noted that he was a bit on the quiet side.
I think that does the same thing. So I would just use the kordon fish protector I had on hand.No I don't know for sure what it is. Which is why I went for more broad spectrum treatments to try and cover a variety of bacterial, fungal, parasitic, viral diseases. It's still unclear. Haven't been able to pinpoint what his scale discoloration is. It dosen't look like anything else that I can find. I use Kordon Fish Protector on a regular basis to help keep his slime coat healthy. So I wonder if using Stress Guard for the slime coat too would be excessive. But maybe I'd need Stress Guard anyway if it may pair better with Kanaplex and Furan-2, to get an effective result.?? I've heard of that 5 day cycle with Kanaplex + Furan-2 before and it sounds good. I'll do that if I the Kanaplex. Thanks
it's possible...he definitely seems to respond positively to the water changes. Try it see where it goes.I'm getting a new suspicion. Considering the timing of his med treatments, perhaps the Paraguard is HARMING him. At least the Furan-2 by itself did nothing and his behavior was ok then. This scenario is very possible. I just read some bad reviews on the product too. For instance, it apparently contains malachite green which is an irritant. Some people are certain Paraguard is what killed their fish, but then you can find reviews like that in almost any fish chemical product. I'm going to play it safe and stop it immediately. I'll do a 50% water change today plus salt bath. And I'll continue that for a bit with no meds. If he's not improving soon, I'll for sure start the Kanaplex + Furan-2 treatment.
I think that does the same thing. So I would just use the kordon fish protector I had on hand.
I hope this works for you!
it's possible...he definitely seems to respond positively to the water changes. Try it see where it goes.
I don't blame you on not wanting to try Betta Revive..it was a shot in the dark and I’m not sure it helped or did anything at all.The only two meds I've actually given him are the Furan-2 (which I stopped after the recommended 4 doses) and Paraguard which he is still on now. I'm interested in trying out the Furan-2 + Kanaplex combo. But like you LC1, I'm concerned about over- stressing his already tuckered out little body with too many meds at once. I don't think I want to try Betta Revive. Too many scary, very bad reviews on the product.
So I can stop the Paraguard, but I'm wondering how long to wait between treatments to give his body a rest from another medicine change. How long should I wait before starting the Furan-2 + Kanaplex? Also, I don't have Kanaplex so I'd have to order it and wait a few days for it to arrive in the mail. Thanks for the suggestions! I was really needing some new ideas!
To me, that sounds like swim bladder issues. It's a symptom of something else - could be constipation, overfeeding, injury, or bacterial infection. If you think it's constipation you can give him a bit of pea and fast him. I'd also get him started on antibiotics - which I know you're planning on doing.
I don't blame you on not wanting to try Betta Revive..it was a shot in the dark and I’m not sure it helped or did anything at all.
I would give him 5-7 days of a break, depending on how he’s acting, with 25% water changes at least every 2 days to keep his water clean and the meds previously used.
If you decide to try the Furan2/Kanaplex combo, stick to the 5 day cycle BettaMum has suggested, doing 25% water changes.
I want to also mention that after treatment, my Betta’s color was never the same as before he was sick, it stayed pale in the areas he lost his color, with only the iridescent part of his blue color returning. But activity, appetite and bubble nest action all went back to normal. Wishing you and your fishy lots of luck!!
I poked around some online and I did see others who described this with food but no one really defined what was wrong. Such a puzzle! I'm rooting for you and Obie. Come on little guy!Rereading my comments about him lying in odd positions - I can see how that description sounds like swim bladder issues. But I don't believe that is what's happening here. I've seen swim bladder and constipation in bettas firsthand before and this doesn't look like that. I'm careful not to overfeed. And over the whole year I've had him, I fast him one day a week to help avoid constipation. I fed him bite-size bits of a pea once and he liked it. Maybe I'll do that again. Wouldn't hurt!
Now back to the odd position thing. He does rest a lot, but more often in normal positions than in odd ones. I just haven't seen him do this before. Maybe he's only being a little weirdo! Another strange pattern that's become noticeable is that he's different at different times of the day. He's been looking the worst in the evening. That's when he's most still and for the longest periods, with some labored breathing. But then in the morning and some daytime, he's more active. Swimming about in the tank, but not energetically. And hiding, but mostly at the surface and not on the gravel bottom. That's not ideal or normal behavior for him but he just looks like he feels better earlier in the day. That's how he's acting right this moment. Why do his symptoms keep trading off with the time of day? Strange little guy. And I'm still pretty confused why he suddenly developed bad aI'm with biting at his food.
I poked around some online and I did see others who described this with food but no one really defined what was wrong. Such a puzzle! I'm rooting for you and Obie. Come on little guy!
Hey everybody. I'm maybe maybe coming to some conclusions about Obie. It's possible that he's simply been exhibiting some signs of old age. Cloudy eye is another possibility, due to his one kinda cloudy eye (pretty sure it's not popeye. Doesn't look like it's protruding) and bad aI'm at catching his food, which is getting worse, but I think that's less likely. He might have a cataract instead of cloudy eye, from old age (in only one eye so far I believe). I'll try to get a picture of him tomorrow when there's daylight so you can see what his eye and head look like now.
I thought Obie was about 13 months old now, but only because of what the unsure employee at the very common US pet store chain (not sure I'm allowed to say the store name here) where I got him from told me. I just read that some pet stores sell their bettas at up to 1 year old when they have full- grown lovely big fins. Stores like the ones that sell bettas in those tiny plastic cups (Obie was in one of those). In a nutshell, my betta is probably much older than I thought. I was thinking he was younger and recently got some mysterious disease, but it may only be that he's finally showing signs of old age. Here's a link I attached to an article about old age in bettas.
How to Care for an Old Betta Fish: The Symptoms of Old Age in Bettas
This seems like a good article but I'd really like to hear about your experiences with old bettas. Does this article recommend good care for old bettas? Anything else I should do or do instead?
I've never given him live food. I decided it was a greater risk to give him live food that might have bad bacteria in it than the lesser risks of freeze-dried food. But this article says live food is good because bettas with poor or no eyesight can smell it well and that's really helpful for them to catch it.
However, Obie has NEVER eaten or chased live food before, and now his eyes are at a disadvantage..... So what to do? And which live worms etc. should I get? I've seen what they carry in the common pet store chains. Blocks with break- off pieces of frozen live critters. Except there's a lot in each chunk. I'd have to thaw a whole lot of them out to feed one betta. Any thoughts on what I can do here?
Is lowering the water level in his tank a good idea? It might make it easier for him since he spends so much more time resting and he wouldn't have to swim so far up to the top for a quick breath of air. I very much appreciate your help!
View attachment 586413
Here is a look at his left eye which as far as I can tell, is working normally.View attachment 586414
Here is his right eye. It's very cloudy and I don't think he can see out of it at all.
View attachment 586415
His original white scale discoloration is now today, the worst I've ever seen it. It came, and then faded some. And now it's more opaque then ever and growing in size. You can see it there along the right side of his head, just behind his head and it's starting to go down the side of his body too behind his gill. What is this thing?! Is this a normal aging thing or which disease?
To be honest his eye looks popped out slightly to me, especially from the top view. So it could be Pop eye/Cloudy eye, which both issues are caused from bacteria. Can you clarify what you meant by: "I'm giving him Kanaplex now but I don't know what else to do. He hasn't been on it long enough to go through the three recommended doses on the bottle" - When you treated with Kanaplex previously, how many days did you treat him each cycle? If you are not using long enough, it is possible for the bacteria to become resistant to medications.
The clove oil needs to be 100% pure, no other essential oils mixed in. I bought mine at a Natural Food store and for sure you can order on Amazon, I don't think you'll find it at any common store. I would not recommend the freezer method, though I have never tried this it seems to me it would take a while for the fish to freeze and can't imagine it being painless. Plus how scary would that be for the poor little fishy..stressed, cold and in the dark? Personally I only euthanize if my fish has dropsy.
I see why you say his eye looks like it's popped out slightly, from the picture. But in person, it really looks more normal size and even a little sunken in, and very cloudy. There is one of those crusty white things like on his right eyelid, making it looked popped out from the top view. So my guess still is that it's not Popeye, but it could be Cloudy Eye or a cataract or something that goes with the rest of the white growths. He definitely started losing vision at the same time this white stuff appeared. What do you all think is wrong with the eye?
I guess I didn't explain the Kanaplex clearly, sorry. When I said, "He hasn't been on it long enough to go through the three recommended doses on the bottle", I meant I started using Kanaplex for the first time this Monday, the 9th. The recommended directions on the Kanaplex box say to give a total of 3 doses, every two days. So I gave him his first dose Monday, the second today, Wednesday and the last will be on Friday. Should I continue using it longer than this? Or at least take a break before starting it up again? - I hate to not have my filter running at all during these doses, since it HAS to be off :/. What does anyone recommend for a regimen of Kanaplex for Obie? His crusty growth is so bad and fast-growing, I want to assault it harshly to get rid of it. But...we also have to consider that Obie is old and frail and can't handle rough treatments.
After reading more about the freezer method. I agree with you. It's not humane enough. They would need to be in a deep sleep before going into the freezer so that they're completely unaware.
Ok, so I won't use my Thieves essential oil since it's mixed oils. Perhaps I'll buy some clove oil on Amazon. I can get it here tomorrow and then I'll have it on hand, at the ready, in case he is really suffering quickly and greatly.
Euthanizing only if they have dropsy is a good choice, but I have more specific questions about determining when to say it is time. I don't understand much about the pain and discomfort fish feel. Looking at Obie the way he is now, he looks awful and uncomfortable with all that gunk on him. Does anyone think he's in a lot of pain, or any pain right now? I don't believe he's ready to be euthanized yet. He has a little fight in him still. He didn't want to eat this morning, but he did this afternoon. He is weak, but is still interested in eating. He will even lunge at it a little sometimes.
I read somewhere that you know it's time to euthanize if you can scoop your fish out of the water and they don't struggle. Obie would struggle right now (I didn't actually take him out). What are some other tell tale signs in fish behavior or appearance that say it's time to be euthanized? And when should they be left alone to go naturally? I want Obie's end to be as peaceful and painless as possible, whether I need to do something or nothing for him. But I haven't given up hope on him. Maybe he can recover from whatever this thing is and hang on awhile as a disease-free little old guy.
Gotcha, you are in the middle of treatment currently. I would do a 30-50% water change before his next dose, since there isn't a filter in his tank. If you do another treatment in the future, I would recommend a water change before each dose if you are not using a filter, to help keep the water as clean as possible.
In the past while doing research for treating sick fish, I have come across articles discussing different antibiotic medications and some have suggested treating for 7-10 days, but I don't recall if Kanaplex was the antibiotic discussed or if it was another variety of antibiotic medication. Maye you can poke around online and find out if you can treat with Kanaplex for 5 doses or maybe look into another antibiotic med to try? Poor little guy is a trooper, hang in there!!
Awww I'm so sorry to hear that. He sounds like he was an awesome fishie.