Betta gills are red and oozing white stuff

:'( I am so scared. My female betta was just fine a week ago but she has steadily been getting worse over the last couple of days. I tried to get a picture but the picture just wasn't clear enough to be of any use. Her gills are all reddish (they are red just from coloration but they are worse now) and they seem to be oozing white stuff. She has black dots all over her fins and her scales. I don't know what's wrong. I have tried several treatments but she hasn't responded. Please help me, what should I do?

 

Do you have any water parameters tested? How's the temp of the tank? And hang in there, help's on the way soon.

Mike

 

The temp is 78 degrees F and everything is normal except the ammonia is al ittle bit high but a water change will fix that.

 

Slowly raise the tank temp to about 80 degrees over the next few hours.  I suspect the recommendation to follow will suggest the temp will eventually need to be raised to 83.  But you don't want to shock the Betta by raising the temp too quickly. 

Do a 50% water change.  The replacement water should be slightly warmer than the water in the tank.  And don't forget dechlorinater in the replacement water.

How large is the tank?  Is it filtered?  Is it cycled?

Mike

 

The tank is a 2.5 gallon hexagon and it is both filtered and cycled.

 

Looking back on the threads, I see the sick Betta is Kit.  Is Kit isolated?  Eating?  Active or idle?  What treatments did you try?

As you raise the temp in the tank, you will want to have it aerated.  Do you have an airstone and air pump running?

From what you are saying, Kit may have a bacterial infection.  And, most here believe that Maracyn and Maracyn 2 are good antibioitics for such treatments.  Do you have either of these on hand?

Mike

 

Hey fugi

I understand your fear very well love. I see that LZ has started to help you. He's very smart about Betta care. I'm not so I don't dare recommend anything. Rose is a moderator here and she will be here soon I'm sure.

You WILL get help here so don't panic (I know, hard to do). Listen to what LZ tells you and then Rose will help too if needed as soon as she gets here...in fact, so will many others here. This forum is loaded with incredible people that care so much Bettas. You're in the right place love.

 

Alright I took an airstone out of my fry tank temporarily so that Kit's tank will be better circulated. Yes, she is isolated and eating normally. I have tried so far only CopperSafe. She is pretty idle for the time being. I did a 50% water change and she just sort of drifted there.

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence, AesSedai; I can only share what I've learned here, though.

Fuji14, that Kit is not at her normal energy level is probably not making you very happy.  But, that Kit is eating is a good sign.

I'm getting the sense that Maracyn 2 would be the treatment of choice.  But I don't recommend it, yet.  In fact, there are others on the forum who are better educated at this than I; so, before adding more meds to the mix, we need some more opinions.

The first order of business is to get the tank temp up, and I'm going to suggest slowly getting it up to around 83 degrees.  I've been treating GB for some time now (first for velvet, then he got fin rot secondary to the velvet) and his tank temp has been at 84 for a few weeks now.  So, it's safe to get the temp up to 83 degrees.  Additionally, I've read here in several places that meds like CopperSafe and the Maracyns don't do their magic until the temp is at 83 to 85 degrees. 

I'd suggest, if Kit is still on the CopperSafe, that you replace any amount of CopperSafe lost due to the 50% water change.  It's not good to keep shifting med amounts around, it may cause Kit to get stressed and the CopperSafe may lose it's ability to help with this and future cures.  Then, until someone tells you to discontinue the CopperSafe, let's keep the tank dosed with it.  (The higher temp may also help the CopperSafe do some good.)  If Kit is not on the CopperSafe, let's not administer any more, yet.

I'd also suggest, if Kit is still on the CopperSafe and if you've not done so already, that you remove any charcoal (carbon) filters.  Those are used to eliminate meds, so you don't want them in your filter.  Hopefully your filter is not loaded with one, if it is, you may need to have some other media put in to take it's place.

Finally, I suggest you give Kit a little pea treat.  If that doesn't boost Kit's energy a little, the TLC that comes with the treat will help.  If you've not given your Bettas a pea treat, here's how I learned to do it:

Put a frozen pea in the m/w and cook it for 30 seconds.  Remove the outer skin and the pea will show itself in two halves.  Slice off three small pieces that in total are about half the size of Kit's eye.  (Kit's stomach is about the size of her eye.)  Feed her the treats.

Now, a little Q & A.  You mentioned Kit had black spots.  I didn't see black spots mentioned with any Betta disorder.  Could they be red spots?  Does Kit look to be gasping for air?  And, is she going to the surface for air?  Finally, in the event that it's called for, do you have Maracyn and Maracyn 2 on hand?

Mike

 

One of my females, Karma, came to me VERY sick and dying with similar symtoms. The reddness of the gills sounds like Gill disease or possibly ammonia poisoning. The white stuff could be fungus or possibly some sort of parasite. Could you describe it? As for the black spots, are they raised or just colors on her fins and scales? Sometimes fish turn weird colors depending on their mood, health etc. Mine turn different colors several times a day sometimes. If it is parasites, the Coppersafe should help. I would run to the Petstore immediately ; tonight if possible as every hour counts when dealing with sick fish.  Get some Maracyn 2 and also get Maroxy, which is used to treat true fungus infections, (this is different from other fungus) which your fish may have. True fungus happens as a result of parasitic attacks. If your fish had some sort of parasites attacking her gills it caused infection and fungus. Maracyn 2, Maroxy and Coppersafe are safe to use altogether. With a 2 1/2 gallon tank you will have to measure out the right dose as best you can (1/4 dose) with the Maracyn 2 as it comes in packets of powder or tablets designed to treat a 10 gallon tank. Do a large water change before starting treatment and make sure all the ammonia is gone. Any trace of ammonia is very stressful for a sick fish.  Raise the water temp to 82 F   If you don't have a heater get one as well. You will need water temps of 82 degrees to get rid of parasites. You'll need a 25 watt heater and keep a close eye on the water temp to prevent over-heating in such a small tank until you are sure the setting is correct.
What kind of filter is in your tank? If this is the Top Fin hex tank I am thinking of it comes with an under gravel filter. If that's the kind you have you should get rid of it after you finish treatment. They just pull dirt down into the gravel instead of removing it and this could be why you have ammonia problems. A Whisper 3I filter is small, cheap and fits perfectly into that tank.
Don't give up on her yet. My little girl Karma was at death's door for the second time a few days ago and is swimming and playing normally today. The products I suggested are LIFESAVERS and should fix her up quickly. Please don't wait to start treatment. The sooner you start the better her chances are. Good luck and keep us updated on her. Karma and I will be praying for her.

 

It sounds like a parasite of some kind and then perhaps complicated with a bacterial infection.  Yes, the temperature needs to be at least in the 83-85 degree range and I am leaning toward a middle ground of 84 since if you need to raise it to 85 for a condition it will be fast and not take as long as if you are at a lower temperature.  

The Coppersafe is okay to continue using and as your tank is cycled (what type of filter are you using?  LZ is perfectly correct that the carbon has to come out or all the medications you are using are just being taken right out of the tank by the carbon in the filter)  I need you to run a series of tests for ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite.  If the results are within the desired limits; ammonia - 0, nitrites - 0, and nitrates below 20; then it is safe to add Maracyn 2 and get the bacterial part of the infection (gills) under control.  If not then do a 50% water change and add the Coppersafe to replace that taken out in the water change and then add Maracyn 2.  If you have been running carbon in the filter, then pretend you have never added anything as the carbon will have taken it all out already and begin treatment with both Coppersafe and Maracyn2 as if you had never put any meds in the tank.

Please let us know how things are going.  I also agree that the Pea Diet for a couple of days would not hurt a thing.  If you have not done so before please consider reading the post below and find out if there are other areas of the bettas life that need to be changed somehow.  If there are questions, please do not hesitate to ask.  



We want to welcome you and Kit to the forum and to the Betta Board.  We are represented by a lot of age groups, interests, and nations.  You are welcome to browse, question and comment to your hearts content and we will do our best to help you and Kit.

Rose

 

Thank you all so much for the info. I feel so much better knowing there is someting I can do. I don't have any Maracyn at the moment, but there is a pet store jsut a few blocks away that I am positive has it in stock. The peas sound good I'll give it a try. The white stuff is just kind of flaky stuff that is on her gills. It's kind of hard to describe. I wish I had a better photo. The black spots are sort of bluish even. You can't see them well on the picture, but they are mostly on her back and top fins.

 

Phloxface and Chickadee are well-seasoned pros at this stuff, fugi14.  If Kit has a chance, you've got the right folks to help you.   Good luck and get well soon Kit!

Mike

 

You did just fine Mike. It looks like we are getting another person who is thoroughly capable of helping others....YAY.

I am just so pleased that we all work together to help each other here. It is one reason I came to this forum and left most of the others.

Rose

 

Welcome to fishlore. The people here are experts at helping Bettas. When I first came here my betta was dying, but with their help he pulled through and is very happily swiming around in his ten gallon tank with 3 cory catfish for company. You are in the right place.

Now Kit, you need to get well, so do what all the experts say. ;D

CherryRose

 

I am going to follow all the suggestions and do absolutely everything I can do. I'll keep you all posted on Kit's condition.

 

fugi, I thought I'd share your pic of Kit here for everyone to see how very lovely she is. How are the fry doing??

 

The fry are doing wonderfully. They are still too small to take a picture of, but they are getting bigger everyday. I am also very happy to report that Kit loved the peas!

 

See, she is doing okay...any fish that loves peas without a lot of coaxing is doing a good job of keeping their head on straight.

Rose

 

Good to see that Kit's eating peas.  I'm curious as to how she's looking and behaving.

Mike

 

She;s looking mostly the same but she isn't just floating as listlessly as yesterday, so something must be helping.

 

It's good that Kit is more active and eating.  We want Kit to start looking better if Kit still has inflamed gills, spots and white stuff on her, though.  Those are not typical signs of a healthy Betta. 

If you can get a sampling of the water and determine ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels, that would be helpful.  And, I'm wondering if the tank temp is up to 83 degrees and if you are still using the CopperSafe?

Mike

 

The temperature is at 82 degrees and yes she is still on CopperSafe. The ammonia is 0, the nitrite is 0 and the nitrate is .2 ish.

 

Those are some pretty good numbers, fuji.  If you can get the temp up one or two degrees, that will help.  If there is no carbon media in the filter, then it's time to try some Maracyn 2, as per Rose.

As you have a cycled tank, we would typically assume no water changes until the Maracyn 2 treatment was finished.  That you had elevated ammonia levels earlier, and it was suggested you might be getting that because you have an undergravel filter, we will have to keep an eye on the ammonia levels throughout the treatment.  If possible, it will be best to do this treatment without a water change, but it may still be necessary.  We can take that as it goes.

Gainsborough just finished the Maracyn 2 and the CopperSafe treatments he was on.  I did do water changes the first few days of the Maracyn 2 treatment and it was really difficult trying to figure out dosages.  The last 72 hours, I did no water changes as the ammonia levels were low enough for me to get away with it; and, the dosing of the tank was much easier as a result.

After a few days, your tank will start to get cloudy; seeing Kit will not be as easy.  But, Kit should start showing some improvement in a short time.

The Maracyn 2 I used came in tablet form.  The directions given were for a 10 gallon tank.  We have a 5 gallon, so all of our doses had to be halved.  If you are using a 2-1/2 gallon tank, your dosages will be 1/4 of that given by the instructions.

If you use the tabs (I think the Maracyn 2 also may come in powder form, but the directions still call for measures in 10-gallon terms), the first dose should be 1/2 tablet on Day 1.  On Day 2 through Day 5, the dose will be 1/4 tab each day.

There are a couple of ways to deal with these measures.  The tabs can be cut with a pill splitter.  For the first half-tab dose, that may work out okay.  The claim, though, is that cutting them into quarters is about as small as they can accurately be cut.  So, I'm going to suggest another method taught me by Rose for getting the 1/4 tab doses.  First measure out 10 ounces of water in a glass.  Then dissolve one tablet in the glass.  (It will take about an hour for the tab to dissolve.)  Two and one-half ounces of the water with the dissolved tab in it will equal 1/4 tab.  Two and one-half ounces is equal to 5 tablespoons.  And that is the amount you should use each day for Days 2 through 5.  I believe that you can refrigerate this concoction to keep it from deteriorating.  But I'd want a second opinion on that, at least as for keeping any remainders for the full four days.  Though it was probably overkill, I also used a bit of dechlorinater in the 10-ounces of water before dissolving the tab in it.

Let us know how this goes and keep us updated on Kit's condition.  Good luck!

Mike

 

Oh yes you need the dechlorinated water to do this as the chlorine will be bad for the fish. I guess I get preoccupied and forget that I need to specify that .... THANK YOU for mentioning it.

That is excellent advice and I will not add a thing.

Rose

 

Alrighty, first thing tomorow I will go get the Maracyn 2. Thanks again for all your help, I will keep you posted on her condition. I just have one more question. Does it matter if it is Maracyn 1 or 2?

 

They treat different types of things. It is not a bad idea to have both in your medicine chest but the Maracyn 2 and Maroxy are the most widely used for the most part. For this particular thing I believe you want to use Maracyn 2. It is okay as far as I know to refrigerate the part of the medication you have disolved in the water and use it the next day. It would be better to just use 1/4 tablet if you can get a pill splitter.

Rose

 

Okay thank you very much!

 

Today not much has changed. I am exhausted because we had a bad blizzard in the night and we had a huge power-out and Kit's heater broke so I was up for a couple of hours getting a heater from another fish temporarily since none of the stores were open at 2 a.m and then turning off all the filters so that they wouldn't brake too. Ugh, that's what I call a setback. And now I'm snowed into my house until my dad get's here with his four wheel drive to take me to get a new heater... :-[


Hey, but I do have some good news. Since my birthdday is coming up, I was searching ebay for something I might want, and I came across a 50 gallon tank for 50$ and so my parents bought it for me! Yay! If I can get some flexiglass dividers cut, that can house at least 5 bettas!

 

I am so sorry to hear of Kit not doing so good. On the upside though y ou have gotten some very good advice by Mike ans Rose. Your little Kit will be just fine I'm sure, so try to not worry so much although I know it's hard not to. I just recently lost my Betta Mr. Red. I just bought 2 Oto Catfish and in about a month, once I know little ones are OK and healthy I'm going to get another Betta. I can't wait. You and Kit are both in my thoughts and prayers. Natalie

 

Way too bad about the blizzard, fugi.  I hope you didn't lose any ground with Kit's treatment.

OTOH, congratulations on the new tank.  You might want to have a backup plan, though, if the Bettas don't take too kindly to being in the same tank w/each other.  Clear plexiglass dividers will allow them to see each other and that may get their instincts up.  Rose has a few in different tanks but next to each other.  When they started flaring, I think she said she slipped a piece of cardboard between the tanks to shut off the view they had of each other.  Cardboard gets pretty soggy, though, when dipped into water.

Natalie, if you're still watching the thread, glad to hear you're thinking of getting another Betta.  I know it's hard after Mr. Red.

Mike

 

Very true, maybe I should use the 50 gallon for a fry tank next tank and use the ten gallon just to house a betta? Or maybe Ace Hardware will have flexiglass that isn't clear...hm I'll have to think about that.

 

I wouldn't have it any other way, Mike. Natalie

 

Don't get dividers that are solid. You need holes to allow water to flow through freely. If you have solid dividers you will NEED a heater and filter for EACH section. That will get expensive and you'll need a lot of electrical outlets. If you really still want to do it that way and can manage 5 filters/heaters you should either have an all female tank or at least keep each male separated by one female, for example male - female - male - female - male so the males have a little distance between them. Have a backup plan just in case.
Even with dividers that have holes, with a 50 gallon you will need at least 3 heaters and 3 filters (in each side and in middle) to make sure you are getting proper filteration and heat distributed evenly.

 

Actually I always get the flexiglass cut a little bit smaller than the aquarium so that the water can go in through the 1/4 centimeter or so gap between the divider and the tank glass, but you do have a point. Well I have to do something with the 50 gallon, I guess it's pretty useless for bettas, that's a bit dissapointing.

 

There's lots of other fish in the sea, as the saying goes...  ;D  A 50 gallon tank would make a beautiful community tank for a variety of other compatible tropical fish! Plant it with lots of nice live plants and some rocks and ornaments and it will be beautiful!
I believe you said you have a 10 gallon. That would make a nice home for a Betta or split it with a Penn Plax divider and keep a male and female in there.

 

It could be very fun to have more variety of fish!

Oh I feel like crying though, I have been so completely stupid. I left to go sledding and while I was gone, the knew heater in the fry tank overheated and the water was in the high 80s. Half of my precious fry are laying on the bottom, dead. I just could cry. There are only around 30 still alive. I know your not supposed to take the heaters out of the tank without turning them off, but I did and now its ruined too. :'(

 

Oh I am so sorry. Hopefully the other 30 will be ok. Natalie

 

Me too Natalie, me too. :-[

 

I am so sorry about the little ones..it is a sad thing to happen and we all feel for you. You have my deepest sympathies and I do hope the rest of them will be okay.

Rose