Betta Fish And Gold Fish (in Seperate Tank) Looks Like There Is Something Wrong With Both

Nickthebettafish

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Hi,

New to all of this, tried to follow everything I read up online. Keeping ammonia and nitrite at 0 etc cycling what have you

I've treated my betta for fin rot once and it subsided (this was when I had no idea about anything), then the goldfish wasn't originally mine, my mum bought it but she took horrible care of it and 3/4 of its fin fell of from rot, I have being nursing it back to health but it has all these black scab like things all over it (i thought this was just wounds healing but now im concerned)

My betta fish has developed this weird crusty gray stuff under its mouth. I have provided photos of both betta and goldfish as attachments
ghg1.jpg
Please I need help I don''t want them to die
gf2.jpg
gf3.jpg
betta.jpg
betta1.jpg


Not sure what the rules on bumping are here as I'm new but I'm really desperate for some help.. I love these fish to death
 
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Nickthebettafish

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When I shine my iPhone light on my betta there are clear gold flecks visible on the underside of its head... I'm guessing this is velvet... just my luck

Hoping the goldfish isn't too serious fingers crossed.
 

Gypsy13

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I’m still needing more info. Btw, I’m blind so if you could describe both fish? How are they acting? Eating? Also, what have you been treating with? Which testing kit are you using? (I’m blind and nosy)
 
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Nickthebettafish

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The goldfish is acting normally, seems happy, swims around a lot, eats, even has learned that me putting my finger against the tank and sliding up to the top where the flakes get dropped means its feeding time. Just has all these black marks, as if they are healing wounds.. i heard they might be ammonia burns healing??

I just tried to feed my betta and it spat out the food. It has been darting around quite a bit, or just chilling behind the heater.

Just now it was laying on its side in the corner of the tank.. I almost thought it was dead
 

Gypsy13

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What have you been treating with? And goldies will get dark new growth depending on how bad the injury was. Usually returns to normal once completely healed up.

Nickthebettafish said:
Just now it was laying on its side in the corner of the tank.. I almost thought it was dead
Do you have a qt tank?
 

Gypsy13

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Nickthebettafish said:
Okay so I guess the goldy is alright. Yes I do, I just put my betta in it and put malachite green, methylene blue and acriflavine into the tank with some aquarium salt
Be careful with that stuff. Don’t poison your Betta.
Also, if they’re sharing a tank, the goldfish will be more susceptible to any and all opportunistic bad guys. Watch it closely. Remember to keep the bettas water warm and dark. Keep us posted?
 

Gypsy13

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Nickthebettafish said:
Will definitely keep posted. Thanks for your help.
I just heard your whole title. Glad to know they’re in separate tanks. But do watch the goldfish in case anything crops up. I’ll be thinking bout y’all.
 

MissRuthless

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Please don't throw medicine cocktails at your fish like that. It does sound like velvet on the betta but you do not need four meds to treat it. If it is velvet, which I'd need a better photo to confirm, malachite green is effective along with darkness (this includes ambient light) and water changes with a gravel vac. Medicating fish is usually stressful when done right - mixing various meds, especially without knowing if they are even effective or whether they interact, is much more stressful and can kill your fish easily.

The black marks on the goldie look like old ammonia burns - he needs pristine water to heal, but keep him clean and he will. He does look quite thin, how long have you had him and what does he eat?

Also what are the exact parameters of both tanks please?
 
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Nickthebettafish

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MissRuthless said:
Please don't throw medicine cocktails at your fish like that. It does sound like velvet on the betta but you do not need four meds to treat it. If it is velvet, which I'd need a better photo to confirm, malachite green is effective along with darkness (this includes ambient light) and water changes with a gravel vac. Medicating fish is usually stressful when done right - mixing various meds, especially without knowing if they are even effective or whether they interact, is much more stressful and can kill your fish easily.

The black marks on the goldie look like old ammonia burns - he needs pristine water to heal, but keep him clean and he will. He does look quite thin, how long have you had him and what does he eat?

Also what are the exact parameters of both tanks please?
Oh sorry I just used the product they sold me at the pet store for velvet and that is what it had in it, I decided to add the salt as well since I read that it actually stops the velvet from reproducing.

Params on my QT tank are all 0
Params on the betta tank were fluctuating wildly as was the goldfish (I was using nutrafin cycle to try help the process but i think it made it worse)
I have moved the goldfish to the largest tank I have and will be using ammolock and water changes to do a fish in cycle. I've had the goldfish for a couple of weeks and I've been feeding him fish flakes pretty liberally.

Unfortunately I didn't know about cycling when I bought my betta, I told my mum we should have cycled the tank but she went and bought a goldfish anyway.
 

Rtessy

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Is the only issue with the goldfish the black spots and the fin falling off? If so, it's probably just ammonia poisoning, I had that happen to mine before I had any idea about what I was doing. He recovered beautifully, the only lasting difference was a slightly different color where the fin and scales grew back. And one pelvic fin is shorter than the other but it doesn't seem to bother him. Just do more water changes than normal, say 3-5 a week at 30% or more. What size tank? What kind of filter, and do you have extra aeration (eg. Airstone)? I'm have no experience with velvet, but what sized tank is your betta in? What's the temperature? Do you have a heater and/or filter?
 
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Nickthebettafish

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Rtessy said:
Is the only issue with the goldfish the black spots and the fin falling off? If so, it's probably just ammonia poisoning, I had that happen to mine before I had any idea about what I was doing. He recovered beautifully, the only lasting difference was a slightly different color where the fin and scales grew back. And one pelvic fin is shorter than the other but it doesn't seem to bother him. Just do more water changes than normal, say 3-5 a week at 30% or more. What size tank? What kind of filter, and do you have extra aeration (eg. Airstone)? I'm have no experience with velvet, but what sized tank is your betta in? What's the temperature? Do you have a heater and/or filter?
Yeah that is the only issue with the goldfish. I've noticed some regrowth of its fins since I first took it from my mum and treated it. Is it possible that injuries would cause those black marks? When my dad was siphoning the tank he used a plain old hose and wasn't careful and the goldys body got caught against it and it really damaged his skin, thats where the first black marks came from, like a hose shaped ring as if stamped on the fish by the end of the siphon hose.

The goldfish is now in a 100L (~25 gallon?) tank and it has an air stone.

The betta I've moved to a 10L (~2.5 gallon) qt tank. I have a heater in there set to 25 deg but I didn't want to move the filter from its previous tank since now that I'm medicating I don't want to destroy the bacteria that have built up. I have also covered the tank with a blanket to prevent any light from getting into the tank so as to prevent the velvet from photosynthesising.

The betta was in a 50L (~12.5 gallon) tank, the only aeration was the bubbles being generated by the filter flow since the filter is a bit high up so it was pushing air into the water but there is nothing in the qt tank.

It's really a shame that I didn't know what I was doing at first, I wish the pet store would have given me better advice.. but I guess its my fault for not doing my research properly before buying a fish, I kind of bought my betta on impulse lol

If I ever buy another fish I am going to make sure to quarantine for parasites..
 
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Nickthebettafish

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Update:
Betta is still lethargic but is not spitting out food! Compared to photos I've seen of velvet on the internet the velvet on my betta does not seem advanced, it is definitely confined to the underside of its head and a little bit on top. These areas aren't fully covered with it either there are maybe 3 small areas where the velvet has clustered a bit. There is also a cluster of them on one of its gills which is the most worrying.

Goldfish seems happy, besides the black marks and lack of full fins it is quite perky. I think the goldfish has come quite a long way, just before I 'confiscated' it from my mum it was just laying at the bottom of the tank, sometimes for hours just in the same spot... I've tried my very best to nurse it back to health and I'm actually really attached to it!

I'm so worried about both of them, the thought of losing one is already enough to make me tear up.
 

Rtessy

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Please don't beat yourself up about this, most of us get into the hobby by listening to pet store employees, accidentally putting our babies in terrible conditions, they get sick, then we learn the proper care. I did this, I know a lot of people who did this, it's extremely common. Do you know the long term care requirements for a singer tailed goldfish? And injuries generally don't turn black, maybe some sort of infection can, can you post a picture of and circle the "hose stamp" for me? It's not that likely though, I'm pretty convinced it's just ammonia poisoning. It will take about a month for scales to grow back, and depending on the severity, 1-2 months for the fins. Do some extra water changes for a week or two and I'm sure it'll be fine. Again, I haven't handled velvet and I'm not familiar with the care, so I'll leave that to someone else. I'm glad to hear he's eating!
 
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Nickthebettafish

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Rtessy said:
Please don't beat yourself up about this, most of us get into the hobby by listening to pet store employees, accidentally putting our babies in terrible conditions, they get sick, then we learn the proper care. I did this, I know a lot of people who did this, it's extremely common. Do you know the long term care requirements for a singer tailed goldfish? And injuries generally don't turn black, maybe some sort of infection can, can you post a picture of and circle the "hose stamp" for me? It's not that likely though, I'm pretty convinced it's just ammonia poisoning. It will take about a month for scales to grow back, and depending on the severity, 1-2 months for the fins. Do some extra water changes for a week or two and I'm sure it'll be fine. Again, I haven't handled velvet and I'm not familiar with the care, so I'll leave that to someone else. I'm glad to hear he's eating!
The hose stamp has gone, but that is how it looked at first.
 
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Nickthebettafish

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Taken more pictures using a camera flash.. hoping to God its not velvet but from all the photos I've seen it looks like it is..

velvet.jpg
velvet1.jpg
velvet3.jpg
 

MissRuthless

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It's really hard to tell without a high quality photo, but velvet is pretty recognizable. The only thing you could really mistake for it is certain goldish coloring, which you know what your fish looks like so if this is not his normal coloring, then its most likely velvet if it looks to you the same as what you've seen in your research.

Does the goldie have a filter, or just an airstone?

Please note that ammo lock does not work like prime - it doesn't leave the ammonia available to your cycle, it removes it from the water completely. If you are trying to cycle I wouldn't recommend using it as you won't be leaving anything for the bacteria to live off. You can protect fish during a cycle with prime and/or daily water changes. If your qt is reading zero across the board, it is not cycled and an ammonia spike is in your future so test daily and be ready to change water. When you say "fluctuating wildly" what does that mean? Keep in mind that you need to be feeding that tank to avoid killing whatever bacteria you've grown thus far. If you don't have another filter, you can build a quick sponge filter for the qt that will at least keep the water from going stagnant. I think what I would do is use the acriflavine as a bath, then keep him in the qt for one round of malachite green with the tank blacked out.
 
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