Betta damaged fin and Bio-spira Please advice

Hi,

I decided to make a new post with this question to see if I can get some more responses. I really need your help with a couple questions. I thank you for all of your help and advice.

Mt betta alfie woke up today with a very damaged top fin. I am not sure what caused it as I thought I was very careful in selecting the items for his tank. I will attach a picture of the damage by the end of the post.

Two days ago, I used bio-spira to cycle his tank. Ammonia readings were:
6/27/08 - 0
6/28/08 - 0
6/29/08 - .25

So I got a small ammonia reading which I think is consistent with the bio-spira cycle. I have read is normal to get low ammonia levels a couple days after set up. Am I right?

With that said, I am curious to know if I can add anything to the water to make alfie more comfortable after the damage. He seems active as before but I want to do something to help him heal.

I have the following at hand:
Stress Coat
Vita Chem
Garlic Guard

Can I use any of these products to help him out? I am concerned that if I do, I could disrupt the bio-spira cycle. I appreciate your help.
Thank you so much.

 

He'll be fine until someone answers the post......Don't panic....Maybe you can PM Dave or Rose...I don't know the answer so I don't want to give you misinformation...

 

He'll be fine until someone answers the post......Don't panic....Maybe you can PM Dave or Rose...I don't know the answer so I don't want to give you misinformation...

Thank you. I am just so upset. He has been with us for two months and I just can't believe that once I moved him to better conditions thinking that I was actually helping him, this happens.

 

HI Willow, yeah, hopefully the betta masters will be here soon and be able to help you.

Sorry your little guy is injured.
Stress Coat is a water conditioner, so I'm sure a little extra of that wouldn't hurt the bio spira.

Good luck.

 

Also, could the filter be causing the damage? I bought a hex 5 with a submersible filter. He likes to get near it. I touched it and it seems smooth but what do I know?

For those people with hex 5 tanks. Do you cover the filter somehow?

 

I would do a small water change and add all three of the above mentioned...and I had to cover my filter with sponges as their tails rip easily and mine liked going near it also and the fins would get sucked inside...I hope he does better....

 

The stress coat should do fine it helps heal fins faster and its what pet stores reccomend (trust me I work in one) but that's a good question about the filter I don't think the filter was the cause. does anyone agree??? IDK you never know. but just add stress coat 10ml (2tsp.) per U.S. gallon so if u have a 5 gallon you want to add 5ml hope I helped.

 

I do think it was the filter if there are no other sharp objects...my guys love being near ours and never know he mite have got sucked in a bit while sleeping...if there is nothing else to hurt him, id go with the filter sucking him in on his fins

 

Shawnie, I had been thinking the same thing.
I didn't comment because the filter was broken in my 5 gallon hex so my husband modified it to use an HOB.

 

I believe I have 3 tanks exactly like yours....I do not cover the filter....Here are photos of my 6 Betta tanks....Wills tank is a 55 gallon and is the aquarium of the month photo.....He has a VERY strong filtration system and has not had any problems with the filter catching his extremely long finnage.....

As you can see all my tanks are pretty much the same...All the plants in them are very soft to the touch...I have polished black rocks in Patrons, Crush and Dunns tank..Marbles in Jaggers and Lenox tank..I hope this helps.....

 

Thank you. I removed all decor until I get him somewhat stable. Plus I need to watch him with HAWK eyes. I covered the filter with a piece of fabric until I know better. I think it was the filter. I found a big piece of fin trapped in one of the holes. I will buy real plants tomorrow.

I still have the ammonia at .25. Should I be worried. I thought about putting more biospira in.

 

I can't comment on the bio spira, but I would leave something in the tank that he can hide in.
If he doesn't feel secure, it could cause stress, which in turn would hinder his healing.

 

if you put the right amout for his tank size, they say it takes 7-10 days...as long as he doesn't look stressed, I would only do a small change to keep his fins looking good and to add your meds that you mentioned in the beginning.....most of your bacteria is in the filter media and decorations not so much in the water..although bs says no water changes for those days, it might help his damaged fins...

 

I replied over in your other thread, but reading here I'm sure now that it's the filter, as soon as I read that you have a submersible.

It's upsetting when you first experience fin loss like that, but somehow Bettas and Angels seem especially good at finding ways to get fin tears. You're taking good care of him and I'm sure you'll have his fin healing up soon.

What model filter do you have? Fish net netting cut off of a fish net is something we use to cover filter intakes so they don't suck up tiny fry and would be what I'd use on the submersible. A clean, new (sterilized with hot water) rubber band can keep it in place.

Since you just added Bio-Spira, ignore what I said about water changes until 7 days after it was added. Also, don't do water tests during the 7 days. They'll worry you if you test, but are part of the normal process.

 

Hi,

Thank you. Yes, I see that testing the water is upsetting. My Alfie and I had a rough day today.
I think the filter is an eclipse with bio-wheel. I covered the "wand" with some with a piece of heavy sterilized ( hot water) unused stocking fabric. It seems to work. I agree I am sure it was the filter.

A tad late with the water change though, I did a very small water change, about 10% with some Vitachem and Garlic guard. I used very little prime. I treated one gallon of water but I used about 4 small cups. I hope I did not upset the bio-spira. Keeping my fingers crossed. I still have the other 1/2 package just in case.

I'm so stressed out right now. I hope I did not do anything wrong.

Gosh, I wish I could fall asleep for like a week and wake up to see my Alfie back to normal. I love my little dude with all my heart.

 

I don't think a small change would hurt..and normally id say don't change for the 7-10 days but where he had some fin rippage, adding the vitachem and garlic guard with a bit of fresh water was ok ... you are doing everything right

 

I don't think a small change would hurt..and normally id say don't change for the 7-10 days but where he had some fin rippage, adding the vitachem and garlic guard with a bit of fresh water was ok ... you are doing everything right

Thank you. The good news is that he does not seem to mind the lack of finnage... He's eating well and being playful as usual. Mom on the other hand is kinda shaken at the moment.

 

Pantyhose will work, but also will clog. I read about using that when we found we had an unexpectedly pregnant platy. I thought about trying the netting off of a fish net after getting tired of cleaning off the intake frequently. But I was feeding them powdered flakes 4 times a day, so it shouldn't clog as fast in his tank. Check to be sure that the bio-wheel keeps moving, you don't want that to dry.

Don't worry about that 10% change. If you used half a package, I'd hope it doesn't affect things. You're doing fine, don't let it stress you.

They really take fin loss/damage in stride. It's really not upsetting to them, mostly to us. You're taking care of keeping him healthy, so he'll be fine. Don't worry. Our little Sweetie had tremendous fin loss & missing scales when we brought her home and just Vita-Chem alone had her fins regrowing good.

Hi,

Thank you. Yes, I see that testing the water is upsetting. My Alfie and I had a rough day today.
I think the filter is an eclipse with bio-wheel. I covered the "wand" with some with a piece of heavy sterilized ( hot water) unused stocking fabric. It se
Gosh, I wish I could fall asleep for like a week and wake up to see my Alfie back to normal. I love my little dude with all my heart.

Thank you. The good news is that he does not seem to mind the lack of finnage... He's eating well and being playful as usual. Mom on the other hand is kinda shaken at the moment.

 

The lack of a good cycle will hurt him much more than the lack of a water change and if you have not done the water change I would not do one. You badly need that cycle established well with fin damage. If you upset it and he has to deal with a minI cycle and the ammonia present in the water it is much more likely to cause a problem that will need medication and that you cannot do while there is new Bio-spira in the tank. If you medicate with the new Bio-spira during the first 10 days or so you may as well never have added it as it will kill the bacteria before they have a chance to establish themselves. There are some meds which do not affect the cycle but with Bio-spira things are so different I would not risk using even them. Right now you need to protect your cycle at all costs.

Rose

 

I'm so stressed out right now. I hope I did not do anything wrong.
Gosh, I wish I could fall asleep for like a week and wake up to see my Alfie back to normal. I love my little dude with all my heart.

I know it's stressful, but you're doing fine.

 

The lack of a good cycle will hurt him much more than the lack of a water change and if you have not done the water change I would not do one. You badly need that cycle established well with fin damage. If you upset it and he has to deal with a minI cycle and the ammonia present in the water it is much more likely to cause a problem that will need medication and that you cannot do while there is new Bio-spira in the tank. If you medicate with the new Bio-spira during the first 10 days or so you may as well never have added it as it will kill the bacteria before they have a chance to establish themselves. There are some meds which do not affect the cycle but with Bio-spira things are so different I would not risk using even them. Right now you need to protect your cycle at all costs.

Rose

I did a small water change (10%), nothing I can do, the damage is done - Things have really deteriorated for me in the past 24 hrs.

I was sad to hear about your issues with your water supply and all the little water babies you lost. How are the rest of your babies doing?

 

Well just watch closely and now you will need to watch for really high ammonia readings. If it gets above 1.0 then you will have to do water changes and start to do them daily 40 to 50%. I do not think that 10% water change will affect the cycle but I would not do any more if at all possible. The Bio-spira will still be strong enough providing you used more than was called for for the size tank you have. If you used the correct amount and not too much then you may have a partial cycle and need to do the water changes. But I would not do any more changes during the first week since you added the Bio-spira to give it every chance to do its work.

Thank you for asking about my fish, things are still dicey here for us all, but the bettas anyway seem to be improving. I am afraid I may lose all my Loaches and they were not inexpensive fish but I will miss their activity and company most of all. The money loss is secondary.

Rose

 

I'm sorry to hear about your Loaches. I know, money is so irrelevant in times like this. Sending you best wishes your way.

I will keep an eye on the ammonia readings. I just tested and it is still at the status quo of .25. I am hopeful this means the water change did not alter things. I added a tad more bio-spira than needed because the instructions said that it was not possible to overdose. Hopefully everything is OK.

 

How big is the tank? You put half of the bag in, right?

 

5 gal. I put a little over 1/2 a package.

Hi,
Some updates from us. Day 2 is not going well. I decided to stay home to watch after Alfie and it seems that he is losing a lot of his tail. I am not sure if this is the result of injury or finrot kicking in.
His top fin is stable. the severed part fell off but his tail is getting shorter, very fast as the day progresses. My ammonia readings with Bio-Spira are still at .25 but at this point my concern is for him. I can always try cycling the tank with bio-spira again.

I bought rid-fungus to have. My instincts tell me to remove him from this tank due to the ammonia back to his old tank for treatment with maybe the rid fungus but keeping the temperature stable will be difficult. Or I can just forget about the bio-spira cycle, do frequent daily water changes and medicate?

Things are deteriorating so fast. Please help me. I wish I had never moved him from his old tank...

 

Wow, he is losing tail very quickly....Do you have a cycled tank at home? If you do I'd move him into it now.....Is he eating?

 

He is eating. No, I don't have a cycled tank. His old tank had no filter. However, it looks like it had some bacteria. Ammonia readings on the old tank were zero when I removed him.

I am going to lose him, right?

 

I don't think you'll lose him....If he is eating that's a good sign....Did you use the water from his old tank when you transferred him?

I really think he's going to be fine....I thought I had posted these photo of my old man Will...It shows what happened to him when he got his fins chewed completely off by some tank mates last year....You can see how they grew back over a 4-5 month period......

Don't stress out over this....You are doing a good job watching over him but there is only so much you can do right now....

I hope these photos ease your mind a bit........

 

WOW.. His old tank buddies really gave him a haircut. I am so glad your little guy recovered fully.
Thank you for lifting my spirits up. I feel so guilty about deciding to move him out of his old tank.
What did you do to help him recover? I am just worried that Alfie caught finrot. His tail looked injured yesterday just a tad, but he's losing it by the minute so I'm thinking is something else.
The bio-spira predicament is not helping either. I'll do fishless cycling next time.

I did not use his water as I used bio-spira. I let the tank run for about 24 hrs before adding the biospira and moving him simultaneously.

 

I don't know anything about Bio-spira..I was lucky enough to have plenty of filter media for the last 5 tanks I set up..All I did for Wills tail was keep his water clean...It never got infected...I honestly thought I was going to lose him during the whole ordeal but he's still here today almost a year later and you should see his finnage...It's almost abnormal how much grew back...

Keep your chin up...You are doing a great job and your little guy is going to be fine..

 

I think that you put in 3 times the needed amount of Bio-Spira, so the small water change shouldn't be a factor at all.

It does sound like he's got a chance of having fin rot. If so, we treat fin rot with Triple Sulfa, Rid-Fungus and add vita-chem, fish protector and garlic guard daily. Fin rot is very treatable, don't worry. I'm not sure what effect the meds would have on Bio-Spira but I bet Rose can tell you.

 

I agree with Dave about doing a water change..If you end up needing the triple sulpha they have it at Petco for $6.00 which will be the full 14 day treatment...I have the Mardel brand and it doesn't damage the biological filter...If it were me at this point considering how quickly he is losing his fins I'd run out and get the meds as soon as possible...

 

If you use the Mardel brand of medications they have been proven not to affect the cycle and will not hurt you Bio-spira, but I would not use any other brand of anything for the first 7 days. It will be likely to kill the Bio-spira outright. But the Mardel brand of Trisulfa is okay. (if it is called Trisulfa it is okay, if it is called Triple Sulfa it is not)

Rose

 

Thank you for responding and I'm sorry I keep on coming back with so many questions.

I will buy the trisulfa tomorrow. Unfortunately I called my two LFS and they don't carry the brand. The nearest Petco is quite far from me.

My fiancee just came to check on him and noticed he is chasing his tail just like a dog. Could it be that he is taking bits of his tail off??? That would explain the rapid change. If so, do I still medicate? Is this a symptom of something like itch?

I have rid fungus which is supposed to be 100% organic. Can I use that in the meantime and if so, do I need to get the carbon filter removed?

I also called the makers of bio-spira. They told me that after 72 hrs, the bacteria has settled in the gravel, filter and decorations so water changes should be OK, given my fishy's condition. I'm doing a small (25%) water change with Aquasafe as recommended by them. How does that sound?

 

Hmm.. it is totally possible that he is biting his tail. We've had 2 that have had that habit and kept their fins shorter. If he is biting his tail, then he wouldn't need the TriSulfa, just the other things to help fin regrowth. With our 2, it wasn't really a symptom of anything but they were just so fiesty that they'd see that tail waving around and go after it.

I'd recommend not using carbon except when removing meds. We lost a Betta because of carbon in the filter and haven't had any problems running without it for almost a year now. The Rid Fungus is fine to add anytime that you want.

Don't worry about posting questions. You love your little fiesty guy and can't ask too many questions here.

 

Yes, he is definitely biting his tail. I just saw him. That's new. My theory is that probably he got some damage in the tail when he cut off his top fin so he is trying to relieve himself from the discomfort. having the extra room to swim around and catch his tail is not helping the cause either.

He acting extremely active tonight now that my fiancee is here. They have some sort of bond. It's too funny to watch. We put a couple things back on the tank to try to see if we can keep him busy and away from the tail.

I will do a search on how to remove the carbon out of the filter. Gosh, this is complicated but I'll get there. I'm sorry you lost your little betta buddy because of it. Did he swallow a piece? I kinda freaked out tonight about it as a couple pieces fell off the sponge.

I'm on close watch and no meds for now. I'll see what tomorrow brings.

Thank you so much for all of the help and support.

 

It's sometimes hard to tell exactly why they bite their tails.. some do it from boredom, some get fin damage and then when it regrows, they see the new growth as something strange and bite it.. some just are fiesty.. but since you confirmed what's causing the damage, it sounds like you can skip TriSulfa for now and help his fins heal with the other things and water changes.

They do form bonds, sometimes really fast. Our newest Betta, Rocky, formed an instant bond with Stacy as soon as he saw her.

What happened with Sora was that he had internal parasites and I forgot to remove the carbon before treating him. Talking to Dino helped me understand carbon and it's use. Our tanks have done better since I stopped using it.

An easy way to take carbon out of your filter, as well as save you a LOT of money is to look for this: .. you can order it online, or look for it at local stores. I think Petsmart carries it. You can get the uncut sheet of it and just cut pieces to fit whatever filter(s) that you have. It's durable and lasts for ages, saving you from buying replacement bags or cartridges at the store. ;D

Yes, he is definitely biting his tail. I just saw him. That's new. My theory is that probably he got some damage in the tail when he cut off his top fin so he is trying to relieve himself from the discomfort. having the extra room to swim around and catch his tail is not helping the cause either.

He acting extremely active tonight now that my fiancee is here. They have some sort of bond. It's too funny to watch. We put a couple things back on the tank to try to see if we can keep him busy and away from the tail.

I will do a search on how to remove the carbon out of the filter. Gosh, this is complicated but I'll get there. I'm sorry you lost your little betta buddy because of it. Did he swallow a piece? I kinda freaked out tonight about it as a couple pieces fell off the sponge.

I'm on close watch and no meds for now. I'll see what tomorrow brings.

Thank you so much for all of the help and support.

 

That's the filter pad I use.....I got it at Petsmart....It's great! I keep extra little squares in Wills filter just in case I have another rescue come home...I took all the filters cartridges that came with my 5 gallon tanks and replaced it with this material.......

How is he doing this morning?

 

I left him in good spirits, He was playing with the bubbles from the filter. His tail looks more trimmed, not as shredded as before. I observed him for a long time this morning and there is no white patches anywhere in his tail. I'm really thinking he just got bored and chewed his tail off, who knows. This litte guy is so unpredictable. The top fin looks a little healed, less shreddy. That is definitely damage from something other than him. Unfortunately, I had to go to work.

He ate two bloodworms, this guy eats everything you throw at him I swear. The ammonia levels dropped a little <.25, so I'm hopeful the cycle will be over soon.

I will pass by petco to see if the have the filter sponges.

I also left the radio on so he hears some activity. Thank you for asking about him and thank you to all of you for your answers.

 

You fit right into our circle of Betta parents! Who else would think of leaving the radio on for a fish lol

So glad to hear he is doing better!