Betta curved spine, sinks to bottom

hi! I have a male koi betta fish named archie. ive had him for a year. about a month ago, he started acting weird, like laying at the bottom of the tank. I went to a fish forum where they kept telling me it was water quality so I flushed my tank, switched to tap, and more, but nothing is getting better and he is only growing worse. two things that are very notable is that his spine has curved DRAMATICALLY. and, when he swims, his bottom half sinks to the bottom as he tries to fight to swim up. i’m so worried and any help or tips will be a lifesaver! thank you!

 

Has he always had that white mark on his face??? If not he could be devolping ick

 

That white mark is just metallic scales. Rather common in koi bettas.

Do you happen to know the water parameters - pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? The people on the other forum may be right saying its a water quality issue.

What do you normally feed the little guy?

How long have you had him - and if known, do you know his age?



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To me, it sounds like he has a problem with his swimbladder, which would explain why its struggling to swim. Good water quality will allow him the chance to heal.

 

That white mark is just metallic scales. Rather common in koi bettas.

Do you happen to know the water parameters - pH, ammonia, nitrite and nitrate? The people on the other forum may be right saying its a water quality issue.

What do you normally feed the little guy?

How long have you had him - and if known, do you know his age?



~~~~~
To me, it sounds like he has a problem with his swimbladder, which would explain why its struggling to swim. Good water quality will allow him the chance to heal.

here are the results from today’s test:
ph: 7.6
ammonia: 0-0.25 (somewhere in the middle)
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 5

I feed him 3 pellets a day, but one day a week don’t feed him at all to avoid bloating.

ive had him for a year, but i’m not sure how old he was when I got him. he could’ve been anywhere from 6 months - 1 year.

other then trying to get his tests to good quality, is there anything else I can do to help?

 

here are the results from today’s test:
ph: 7.6
ammonia: 0-0.25 (somewhere in the middle)
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 5

I feed him 3 pellets a day, but one day a week don’t feed him at all to avoid bloating.

ive had him for a year, but i’m not sure how old he was when I got him. he could’ve been anywhere from 6 months - 1 year.

other then trying to get his tests to good quality, is there anything else I can do to help?

While the ammonia reading is a little high for my liking - ammonia is highly toxic, so any reading is a bad thing in my books - a good water conditioner should be able to neutralise it without problems. In saying that, have you always had ammonia troubles?

What type of food do you feed? Some low quality foods can lead to intestinal issues, which can further cause problems with behaviour (or what I think is the problem, the swim bladder, like I think in this case).

You haven't had him for that long, which we can easily rule out old age... 2 years (approx) isn't rather uncommon in bettas, if he was older I may of suggested it was an age related issue. So we can rule it out IMO.

The thing is if its truly a swimbladder issue, then to fix it can totally depend on a case by case basis. Bacterial infection of the swimbladder can lead to swimming issues (which it could as well be) and in that case good water will do nothing compared to a (internal) bacterial medication. If its due to diet or just commonplace injury, water quality and corrective measures (if needed) will allow him to heal.

For me personally, I like to treat fish with swimming problems by simply isolating - which you're doing anyway - and ensure good water quality. In most instances, the fish has healed without any further remedies, however a couple of times I've had a constipated fish (that lead to swimbladder issues) I am fond of using an epsom salt bath to 'clear out'the insides and reduce pressure on the bladder, and hold of feeding to allow the fish to heal.

So I'll personally wait to hear what others think, since I may be wrong. But personally, this is a swimbladder issue either caused by infection or related to diet - food quality may not be suitable.

 

While the ammonia reading is a little high for my liking - ammonia is highly toxic, so any reading is a bad thing in my books - a good water conditioner should be able to neutralise it without problems. In saying that, have you always had ammonia troubles?

What type of food do you feed? Some low quality foods can lead to intestinal issues, which can further cause problems with behaviour (or what I think is the problem, the swim bladder, like I think in this case).

You haven't had him for that long, which we can easily rule out old age... 2 years (approx) isn't rather uncommon in bettas, if he was older I may of suggested it was an age related issue. So we can rule it out IMO.

The thing is if its truly a swimbladder issue, then to fix it can totally depend on a case by case basis. Bacterial infection of the swimbladder can lead to swimming issues (which it could as well be) and in that case good water will do nothing compared to a (internal) bacterial medication. If its due to diet or just commonplace injury, water quality and corrective measures (if needed) will allow him to heal.

For me personally, I like to treat fish with swimming problems by simply isolating - which you're doing anyway - and ensure good water quality. In most instances, the fish has healed without any further remedies, however a couple of times I've had a constipated fish (that lead to swimbladder issues) I am fond of using an epsom salt bath to 'clear out'the insides and reduce pressure on the bladder, and hold of feeding to allow the fish to heal.

So I'll personally wait to hear what others think, since I may be wrong. But personally, this is a swimbladder issue either caused by infection or related to diet - food quality may not be suitable.

I purchased the test about a week ago, and i’ve never been able to get ammonia at 0. however, 2 days ago I replaced half of his water with conditioned tap water but still no ammonia change. I will keep using the tap.

I feed him aqueon betta pellets.

okay. thanks so much. i’ll keep doing 25 percent water changes as frequently as I can. i’ll take frequent tests as well and upload them to here. if all doesn’t work i’ll look into the bath salt.

about 2 weeks ago, I thought it was swim bladder constipation so I didn’t feed him for 3 days and then went on a pea diet. I stopped because someone told me the peas are not healthy.

 

I purchased the test about a week ago, and i’ve never been able to get ammonia at 0. however, 2 days ago I replaced half of his water with conditioned tap water but still no ammonia change. I will keep using the tap.

I feed him aqueon betta pellets.

okay. thanks so much. i’ll keep doing 25 percent water changes as frequently as I can. i’ll take frequent tests as well and upload them to here. if all doesn’t work i’ll look into the bath salt.

about 2 weeks ago, I thought it was swim bladder constipation so I didn’t feed him for 3 days and then went on a pea diet. I stopped because someone told me the peas are not healthy.

Your ammonia may come from the tap, have you tested your tap for ammonia yet? If not, then the tank may be not cycled yet.

We don't have aqueon betta pellets in australia, so never heard of them. Had to look up the ingredients, while its not the worst food out there, its certainly not 'amazing'. Avoid things that contain fillers, or meals (particularly from corn or wheat) since they add very little nutritional value to the fish. Betta pellets made by NLS would be my go too when I have a betta, but maybe this link can help you out a little more and see what suits you (and your betta)?



Sometimes low quality foods can lead to such issues, and some bettas seem to be more prone to it compared to others. While peas do little nutritionally, they are fine to be used as a 'laxative' or an occasional treat IMO. They won't die offered peas on a occasional basis, and can help really clear the gut out well - particularly when they are bloating.

The epsom salt would be good to look into; or a tannin extract (or just an indian almond leaf) which helps reduce harmful bacteria from developing and promotes natural healing.

 

ok. i’ll let you know if I do the epsom salt. should I invest in a bigger tank?

 

ok. i’ll let you know if I do the epsom salt. should I invest in a bigger tank?

If its around 2.5g or bigger, you can if you want, but he is certainly fine in the tank he currently in.

 

If its around 2.5g or bigger, you can if you want, but he is certainly fine in the tank he currently in.

please I need more help! overnight, it got really bad. it’s definitely a swim bladder problem. now, he can’t even swim without floating on his side. he’s just gliding across the floor. what should o do at the moment?

 

Sorry, just got this now!
Have you changed anything recently? What have you been doing recently, any meds added or...?

@Gypsy, can you see anything that may be a red flag?

 

Sorry, just got this now!
Have you changed anything recently? What have you been doing recently, any meds added or...?

@Gypsy, can you see anything that may be a red flag?

Gypsy13

 

Gypsy13

thanks so much guys. I haven’t changed anything except for changing 25 percent of water. today, I emptied some water out and modified the tank to be about 75 percent full since he was having so much trouble swimming.

i’m not feeding tomorrow, and I may try a medication.

also your doing me a huge huge favor by helping! I don’t mind if responds are late or anything let me know if you want any pictures or water tests.

 

Gypsy13

Woops, was in lecture and forgot. Thanks for the pickup!

thanks so much guys. I haven’t changed anything except for changing 25 percent of water. today, I emptied some water out and modified the tank to be about 75 percent full since he was having so much trouble swimming.

Even a small floating container- like a chinese takeaway container- with holes in the sides will make it a little more easier for him to surface.

 

You’ve been in good hands. We do need new pics. Have you been doing the epsom salt baths at all?

 

So he currently has swim bladder I would fast for three days and then feed him a pea if it's still worse then I would use Epsom salt. He also does look a little bloated

 

I’m hoping the epsom salt baths are helping?
Hey Goldiemom you want to take a peak? I’m thinking AussieJJ has been doing great but would love another set of eyes.

 

I agree with Epsom salt baths. You can do them 3 times a day. Pea and fasting are both fine for constipation but we need to try everything at this point or he will be pineconing next. If it develops into dropsy, it’s a much grimmer prognosis. Gypsy13, a teaspoon of Epsom to a gallon of treated water enough? Please advise.

 

I agree with Epsom salt baths. You can do them 3 times a day. Pea and fasting are both fine for constipation but we need to try everything at this point or he will be pineconing next. If it develops into dropsy, it’s a much grimmer prognosis. Gypsy13, a teaspoon of Epsom to a gallon of treated water enough? Please advise.

Thank you for looking Goldiemom! 1 tablespoon/gallon for bloat/SBD baths. Any updates OP?

 

i’m so sorry! I haven’t been getting emails for all the replies. thanks for the help. i’ve just ordered epsom salt and an indian almond leaf for the tank. i’ve modified it a bit to make it easier to live in while healing. (i’ve included a picture below)
can someone walk me through how to use the epsom salt? you did say a teaspoon per gallon, so do I just add it straight to the tank?
thanks again, I hope he can get better!

i’m so sorry! I haven’t been getting emails for all the replies. thanks for the help. i’ve just ordered epsom salt and an indian almond leaf for the tank. i’ve modified it a bit to make it easier to live in while healing. (i’ve included a picture below)
can someone walk me through how to use the epsom salt? you did say a teaspoon per gallon, so do I just add it straight to the tank?
thanks again, I hope he can get better!

this is the picture, i’ve lowered the water and moved everything down.

 

Epsom salt baths. 10-15 minutes. 3 times/day. Hubby asks if you can clean your marimo balls? Tank sounds cute. New pic of finbaby?

 

ok! i’m going to clean my marimo balls. do I do the baths is just another container or tank with treated water?
here’s a pic:
he’s just been sitting in the corner

 

ok! i’m going to clean my marimo balls. do I do the baths is just another container or tank with treated water?
here’s a pic:
he’s just been sitting in the corner

Baths in separate container. Same temp as tank. Told hubby betta more important than marimos. After first bath, tell me how he’s doing.

 

I don't mean to sound judgemental at all but are you just now starting to do Epsom salt baths when it was suggested on Monday to do? In that case, if he’s still bloated do you see any pineconing ( scales lifting up like a pinecone)? We need to know how serious this has gotten. Gypsy13 After looking at the latest pic, some scales are lifting but not the whole body. Hopefully you can get this under control but Gypsy13, should he start using a Kanaplex and Furan-2?

 

I don't mean to sound judgemental at all but are you just now starting to do Epsom salt baths when it was suggested on Monday to do? In that case, if he’s still bloated do you see any pineconing ( scales lifting up like a pinecone)? We need to know how serious this has gotten. Gypsy13 After looking at the latest pic, some scales are lifting but not the whole body. Hopefully you can get this under control but Gypsy13, should he start using a Kanaplex and Furan-2?

yes, i’m doing the first salt bath tonight because I had no idea so many people were helping me out. I wasn’t getting email notifications. so, here’s today’s picture.
his whole body has not pineconed.

 

Ok. You’ll need to act fast because it has gotten to a serious stage. Pet Smat sells Kanaplex and Furan-2. Get both and start treating per instructions. Continue Epsom salt baths 3 - 4 times a day. Gypsy13 , any other suggestions? I have to be honest, when it gets to this stage the fish may not make it but try, try, try. We’re here.

 

Continue doing epsom salt baths. Try either kanaplex/furan2 or maracyn 2. Tell us how the epsom salt is doing?

 

about to do salt bath. i’m not sure when I can go to the store to get the medicine but i’ll let you know.

Continue doing epsom salt baths. Try either kanaplex/furan2 or maracyn 2. Tell us how the epsom salt is doing?

they don’t have the medicine

 

they don’t have the medicine

Are you in the US?

 

Are you in the US?

yes. I was not at petsmart though. i’m going to run and get it tomorrow. i’ve done 2 baths today but haven’t seen a difference. found his sitting tail up today

 

Oh no. He still breathing right?

If not available in store, try sourcing online?

 

This is so not good news. How is he now? My heart is with you!

 

This is so not good news. How is he now? My heart is with you!

I got furan2! i’m heading home to use it now.

I got furan2! i’m heading home to use it now.

also, thank you so much ❤️ it helps to know I have people helping me out :,)

ok. have just done the medicine. hoping for the best

 

Did you get kanaplex too?

Did you get kanaplex as well? Are you using just the furan2? Has there been any change?
Goldiemom I will be out of touch most of tomorrow if OP responds, please help. Anyone, please help. I’m not sure which meds are being used or how. Thank you!

 

Did you get kanaplex as well? Are you using just the furan2? Has there been any change?
Goldiemom I will be out of touch most of tomorrow if OP responds, please help. Anyone, please help. I’m not sure which meds are being used or how. Thank you!

no I didn’t get kanaplex. i’m going to be honest, I don’t have enough money to get the kanaplex as well. my mom has been helping me pay for everything and she can’t spend anymore. so i’m really hoping for the best on this medicine. I haven’t seen any huge changes yet, but i’ll see when I get home. should I continue doing salt baths?

Did you get kanaplex as well? Are you using just the furan2? Has there been any change?
Goldiemom I will be out of touch most of tomorrow if OP responds, please help. Anyone, please help. I’m not sure which meds are being used or how. Thank you!

i’m just following the furan 2 directions. but everyday I just loose a little hope

 

Can I ask a question? Is the heater in his tank fully submerged?

 

I don’t think it is, because the temperature is lower than usual. but it’s still a good 75 degrees. is that too cold? usually it’s 78/79.

Can I ask a question? Is the heater in his tank fully submerged?[/QUOTE

also the furan is making his water a little green.

 

also the furan is making his water a little green.

This thermometer is supposed to be submerged at all times. Unplug it. Check for any cracks or moisture inside the glass tube. Get a container of water big enough for it to be submerged in. Once it’s in the water all the way, plug it back in. Look for a red or green dot. When you see the dot, unplug and place back in tank complete submerged.

The green is malachite green. Just part of the med. won’t permanently stain things like mblue can. And yes, 75 is too cold.

 

This thermometer is supposed to be submerged at all times. Unplug it. Check for any cracks or moisture inside the glass tube. Get a container of water big enough for it to be submerged in. Once it’s in the water all the way, plug it back in. Look for a red or green dot. When you see the dot, unplug and place back in tank complete submerged.

The green is malachite green. Just part of the med. won’t permanently stain things like mblue can. And yes, 75 is too cold.

ok will do. I have good news though! when I came home from school he was swimming a bit! still struggling a little, but was able to swim to his lead hammock and looked like he had a little more energy. he’s back laying on the foo, but that gave me hope that this could be working))) thanks so much!

i’m getting the tank back to 78.

 

i’m getting the tank back to 78.

Awesome!