Betta Bump And Lethargic After Epsom Salt Dip?

yomo

My betta Toad has appeared to develop Popeye on one side and I did an Epsom salt dip on him about 15 minutes ago to help it.

This is when I noticed he has developed a bump where his spot of damaged scales is. And to top it off, he's been laying at the bottom of his tank since doing the dip and acclimating him back to his water.

Is this bump a tumor? And is it normal for a fish to appear lethargic after an Epsom dip? He appeared to do fine during the process. I'm just worried about my baby. I have had him for a few years now and I keep his water pretty clean...his tank has been cycled since I got him as well.
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Update: It appears he was possibly just grumpy and making sure I couldn't try and take him out again, because he's off the bottom of the tank now and staring at his snails as usual.
 

KimberlyG

You do need to treat for popeye. Let's get Gypsy13 in on this one. I would use erythromycin which is normally useless because it treats gram positive and most fish disease is gram negative but eye problems are often gram positive. Gypsy might have some better ideas. in the meantime, could you tell us more about the damaged scales? That could be fungus because it feeds off of dead and decomposing matter.
 

yomo

You do need to treat for popeye. Let's get Gypsy13 in on this one. I would use erythromycin which is normally useless because it treats gram positive and most fish disease is gram negative but eye problems are often gram positive. Gy psy might have some better ideas. in the meantime, could you tell us more about the damaged scales? That could be fungus because it feeds off of dead and decomposing matter.

He has had the damaged scales for at least a year now, from what I could tell he hurt himself on some old decor I had and it hasn't caused any issues until now that I'm aware of. He has certainly kept his personality and has had no trouble eating through all of this *knock on wood*.
 

KimberlyG

He has had the damaged scales for at least a year now, from what I could tell he hurt himself on some old decor I had and it hasn't caused any issues until now that I'm aware of. He has certainly kept his personality and has had no trouble eating through all of this *knock on wood*.
So no white growths at the site of injury? Good. Can you post your water parameters? Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Important information concerning popeye.
 

yomo

So no white growths at the site of injury? Good. Can you post your water parameters? Ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Important information concerning popeye.

He does have something white on them at the moment but I'm not sure I would call it a growth, possibly dead scales that need to slough off? The white closest to his bump in the first picture is what I am talking about...looks more like dead skin to me.

My water parameters are 0 ammonia 0 nitrites 20 nitrates and my last water change of about 50% was on Halloween.
 

KimberlyG

He does have something white on them at the moment but I'm not sure I would call it a growth, possibly dead scales that need to slough off? The white closest to his bump in the first picture is what I am talking about...looks more like dead skin to me.

My water parameters are 0 ammonia 0 nitrites 20 nitrates and my last water change of about 50% was on Halloween.
Thanks for those numbers! I'm sure Gypsy will appreciate that. Popeye can be cause by injury or high nitrates, so that does help.
 

Gypsy13

Quick question. How old is he?
 

yomo

Quick question. How old is he?

I got him in September of 2017 and he was full grown so maybe 2 or so?

Edit: Here's some more pictures


IMG_20181103_211617~2.jpg
IMG_20181103_211041.jpg
 

KimberlyG

Those are amazing pictures. Thank you. It is not something I have ever seen before. It is as if someone had taken a filet knife and cut after the vital organs (kidney, spleen) and then did a slash out right before the swim bladder. It made a cave in your fish. Was this before you got him?
And those fins! It looks like they are multI layered. That's a lot of finnage. I couldn't walk around in those.
 

Gypsy13

From hubby’s description it sounds like an old wound?
 

yomo

Gypsy13 KimberlyG not too terribly long after I got him I noticed that he had gotten some damaged scales but I wasn't sure how, I'm guessing from some decor that I had even though I filed down everything. Perhaps he got scared and bumped into something?This is what he looked like when I got him:

Screenshot_20181104-184338.png

His fins sure have grown! He looks like he's wearing a lovely gown he seems to swim along okay with it.

Also do you think I should go with medications or anything? Perhaps another salt dip?
 

KimberlyG

How is the popeye looking?
 

yomo

How is the popeye looking?

It looks about the same, would it go down if it was from an injury?
 

Gypsy13

Have you tried the epsom salt again? Tell me if you see what my hubby described to me. From his description it would appear as if there’s facial deformity? I’m wondering if there’s a tumor pushing on this eye? Tell me exactly what y’all see? Please?
 

yomo

Have you tried the epsom salt again? Tell me if you see what my hubby described to me. From his description it would appear as if there’s facial deformity? I’m wondering if there’s a tumor pushing on this eye? Tell me exactly what y’all see? Please?


I haven't re-tried it, but at the moment it looks like the epsom may have made his eye worse not sure about the other spot. I don't know what to do...


IMG_20181104_222933.jpg
IMG_20181104_223016.jpg
 

Gypsy13

I haven't re-tried it, but at the moment it looks like the epsom may have made his eye worse not sure about the other spot. I don't know what to do...


IMG_20181104_222933.jpg
IMG_20181104_223016.jpg

One “dip” won’t give you any good results for sure. It takes several baths to make a real difference. Assuming true popeye. Do you see any facial swelling not associated with the eyeball itself?
 

yomo

One “dip” won’t give you any good results for sure. It takes several baths to make a real difference. Assuming true popeye. Do you see any facial swelling not associated with the eyeball itself?

Not that I can see for now, just his eye and that spot of scales where it looks like someone injected a bubble of fluid. He's still acting normal though, so that gives me hope. Just having a harder time finding his food if I don't hold it because of his eye. I'll definitely give him another epsom salt treatment tomorrow at the very least and probably change some of his water just to make sure its clean.
 

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