Betta Breeding Questions!!

PeachesAndGypsy

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This is my first time using Fish Lore so here I go! I have a rare extra large Peach Dalmatian veiltail male betta and a large blue veiltail female betta. I know how to breed bettas and I have almost everything I need. But, I have a some questions!


What should the fry be priced at? Online peach Dalmatians are about $65 for females and $75 for males. But, these fry will be large-extra large! So maybe size adds to the price.‍


If some of they fry aren’t peach Dalmatians, how much should the non peach Dalmatians be priced at? Again they’ll be large-extra large and all of them will carry the peach Dalmatian gene!


If I’m breeding a peach Dalmatian male to a blue female, will roughly half the fry be peach Dalmatians? This gene and coloration is rare and it’s not researched so I couldn’t find anything online about it.


My female is quite large so does that mean she’ll hold more eggs and possibly give me more fry?

What are the best and cheapest containers to house the bully fry and the male fry in when they’re older? I don’t want to spend a fortune on temporary betta containers so they have to be really cheap.

And what is the recovery process like for the adults after breeding? Like what should I use to heal their fins, what should I feed them, etc?

Sorry for all the questions. This will be my first time breeding any fish in purpose! I can also send pictures of the hopefully soon-to-be parents!
 

PascalKrypt

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I'm not sure if you know how betta genetics work, but it is complicated and can be much harder it seems to get the colours that you want. That female blue veilteil has very dominant genes. It is highly likely that all fry will be blue, and there will be no dalmatians or peach coloured fry, let alone a combination of the two.
"Dalmatian" in itself is not clearly defined, so it is hard to say what kind of genes your male has. He might breed true and he might not. So even if you'd get two bettas sold as peach dalmatian, unless you bought them from a trustworthy breeder the odds are high their fry will be all sorts of different colours. And some colours (I'm not aware if this is true for dalmatian or not) don't breed true which means the pattern just appeared by luck on the betta you breed with, and its fry has about the same odds of getting it (which is usually quite low).
All in all this pairing is pretty sure to give you solid blue veilteils nearly 100%, which aren't worth much.

In any case breeding bettas to make money is a pretty pointless endeavour, it is almost impossible, especially for someone who breeds as a hobby and does it small scale. If you want to sell your fry rather than give them away you should probably not breed with veilteils, which are worth the least out of all the tail types and are commonly available in all large and small pet stores for a cheap price.

I'm not really sure how the large/XL gene works, so I'm not sure if crossing large x XL guarantees large offspring (I believe it's only an increased chance with a large portion of fry normal size, but I'm not 100% sure).

The recovery process is pretty much like conditioning (warmth, isolation, frequent feedings with 'power food') because you have to get their strength back up. Dosing with a mild antiseptic or something similar (like methylene blue) is advised to keep their injuries clean. Do lots of water changes to keep the water pristine for this same purpose.

Most betta breeders I know have 1/4 - 1/2 gallon plastic containers they put on heat mats or in heated rooms/cupboards. The containers cost a few cents each but it is labour intensive as you have to do daily water changes on all of them.

I realise you are quite invested already, but I wouldn't really recommend betta for your first fish to try breeding with. The spawning process is pretty violent (you may occasionally lose a fish) and anabantoid fry are all pretty vulnerable and stay very small for quite a long time. It is easy to screw up in their care and kill your entire batch. Many other species with larger fry, or fry with parents who show much larger degrees of broodcare, are much more forgiving of mistakes. It would be a shame to invest money and effort to lose all your fry after a few weeks. Moreover (as you've already noted) separating all of the fry is labour intensive and costly.
 

Truckjohn

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In terms of prices - miscellaneous bettas sell for $3.99 at Petco and miscellaneous baby bettas sell for $2.99..... That includes the bowl...

I would say that sort of sets the floor for the ones that are otherwise good healthy fish but don't look like you think they should...

You could probably push it up to $10.00 with the assurance of a good healthy miscellaneous fish that should go at least 4 years vs an 18-month Petco fish.....

Then sell the high quality picks for more.
 

Repolie

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If you're planning to breed them and sell them for profits, I wouldn't suggest it. The blue colouration isn't very desirable because it's common and since blue is a dominant colour, I would expect all the fry to be blue. Mixing lineages also isn't desirable if you don't know the backgrounds of your breeding pair which leads to unwanted results. Even if they carry the peach dalmatian genes, people are focused on the appearances and if they don't present those genes then they still aren't worth as much. The pair you have are both veiltails, it's the least sought after tail type which drives down the value. I'm sorry to say this, but they would be worth as much as a regular big chain pet store betta.

If you're still determined to breed, then I would suggest that you continue only with the male. Find a different female similar in colouration to him which would give you a higher possibility of his traits being presented in the fry.

@Demeter is an experienced breeder who can give you more insight and suggest what types of females you can pair with him.
 

Demeter

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I think everything has pretty much already been said. Blue would be the more likely color you get from spawning a blue betta with an orange dalmatian. I would expect the orange dalmatian genes to be very recessive so the female would need to be recessive for the gene as well or you have next to no chance of getting that gene. Let me get a good link that gives the results of certain dalmatian pairs. This breeder has very nice fish and keeps fantastic records of the spawns.
Spawns 2017

Your pair may not be the fanciest but IMO it is a good pair to gain experience with. If both are a good match, size and personality wise, then see how it goes. My first successful batch was a cross between a marbled male double tailed HMPK and the run of the mill natural colored female PK. It resulted in about 14 natural/wild colored plakats. I decided to continue the line by crossing one son to two store bought females, luckily the recessive "fancy" genes from male resulted in lots of fancy marbled babies but also several natural colored young. History repeated itself and after using a sibling pair I ended up with a very nicely colored, robust male who now has a lovely new female with good fins. This is my breeding thread Baby Betta Progress Log - Betta Fish 280398

The main problem with breeding bettas is selling them off. I've had a heck of a time getting rid of mine, thankfully the spawns have been on the smaller side.
 
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PeachesAndGypsy

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I think everything has pretty much already been said. Blue would be the more likely color you get from spawning a blue betta with an orange dalmatian. I would expect the orange dalmatian genes to be very recessive so the female would need to be recessive for the gene as well or you have next to no chance of getting that gene. Let me get a good link that gives the results of certain dalmatian pairs. This breeder has very nice fish and keeps fantastic records of the spawns.
Spawns 2017

Your pair may not be the fanciest but IMO it is a good pair to gain experience with. If both are a good match, size and personality wise, then see how it goes. My first successful batch was a cross between a marbled male double tailed HMPK and the run of the mill natural colored female PK. It resulted in about 14 natural/wild colored plakats. I decided to continue the line by crossing one son to two store bought females, luckily the recessive "fancy" genes from male resulted in lots of fancy marbled babies but also several natural colored young. History repeated itself and after using a sibling pair I ended up with a very nicely colored, robust male who now has a lovely new female with good fins. This is my breeding thread Baby Betta Progress Log - Betta Fish 280398

The main problem with breeding bettas is selling them off. I've had a heck of a time getting rid of mine, thankfully the spawns have been on the smaller side.
Thank you all for your help! I really appreciate it! I want to breed this pair just to gain experience. I did find another Orange Dalmatian veiltail female online but, it’s $65 plus $25 shipping! And she is an import. I don’t have the kind of money right now and veiltails are not desirable. If I were to not breed this pair, and I decided to go with a pair that has more desirable traits, colors, and a nice tail type... what should I breed that I might be able to sell fairly quickly? I’m thinking a long fin Halfmoon koi because I already have a marble male Halfmoon koi. Who was an import. And he’s 8 months old. So maybe if I get a marble koi Halfmoon female, I could breed them and they would hopefully produce desirable fry that I could sell for more and they would have more desirable traits... right?
 

PascalKrypt

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I think everything has pretty much already been said. Blue would be the more likely color you get from spawning a blue betta with an orange dalmatian. I would expect the orange dalmatian genes to be very recessive so the female would need to be recessive for the gene as well or you have next to no chance of getting that gene. Let me get a good link that gives the results of certain dalmatian pairs. This breeder has very nice fish and keeps fantastic records of the spawns.
Spawns 2017

Your pair may not be the fanciest but IMO it is a good pair to gain experience with. If both are a good match, size and personality wise, then see how it goes. My first successful batch was a cross between a marbled male double tailed HMPK and the run of the mill natural colored female PK. It resulted in about 14 natural/wild colored plakats. I decided to continue the line by crossing one son to two store bought females, luckily the recessive "fancy" genes from male resulted in lots of fancy marbled babies but also several natural colored young. History repeated itself and after using a sibling pair I ended up with a very nicely colored, robust male who now has a lovely new female with good fins. This is my breeding thread Baby Betta Progress Log - Betta Fish 280398

The main problem with breeding bettas is selling them off. I've had a heck of a time getting rid of mine, thankfully the spawns have been on the smaller side.
Just hijacking a post to thank you for this, that is all super helpful!
 

Demeter

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Thank you all for your help! I really appreciate it! I want to breed this pair just to gain experience. I did find another Orange Dalmatian veiltail female online but, it’s $65 plus $25 shipping! And she is an import. I don’t have the kind of money right now and veiltails are not desirable. If I were to not breed this pair, and I decided to go with a pair that has more desirable traits, colors, and a nice tail type... what should I breed that I might be able to sell fairly quickly? I’m thinking a long fin Halfmoon koi because I already have a marble male Halfmoon koi. Who was an import. And he’s 8 months old. So maybe if I get a marble koi Halfmoon female, I could breed them and they would hopefully produce desirable fry that I could sell for more and they would have more desirable traits... right?
After gaining experience with the VT pair then you can think about the HM koi pair, which does sound like a good idea. Koi and marbled bettas are always in good demand. Online I seem to notice that HMPK are often in higher demand than long finned HM too, but locally (for me anyways) it seems the HM is more popular. I tend to stay away from ling finned types simply because they can have more fin issues. The last time I had long finned males was by accident when I bred a copper HM to my PK. Fun fact, long fins are a dominant trait ;)
 
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PeachesAndGypsy

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After gaining experience with the VT pair then you can think about the HM koi pair, which does sound like a good idea. Koi and marbled bettas are always in good demand. Online I seem to notice that HMPK are often in higher demand than long finned HM too, but locally (for me anyways) it seems the HM is more popular. I tend to stay away from ling finned types simply because they can have more fin issues. The last time I had long finned males was by accident when I bred a copper HM to my PK. Fun fact, long fins are a dominant trait ;)
So I plan on breeding my veiltails as soon as I get the rest of my supplies just to gain experience! Which will be a few weeks. After I breed them and if I decide to breed koi and marble bettas... I will. But, right now I’m having a hard time finding koi Halfmoon female bettas online. All I’m finding are HMPK. And so what would happen if I bred my koi Halfmoon male to a koi HMPK female? And would that be desirable? Sorry for all the questions!
 

Demeter

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If you cross a long fin type with PK you will get mostly long fins. All kois are pretty desirable so you shouldn’t have too hard a time finding homes for any koi offspring.

One thing that should be mentioned is culling, or removing/euthanizing fry with undesirable traits. Not all fry will be healthy, strong babies and removing those that don’t meet the standards is rather important. By removing fry that will be sickly or have a hard time being sold you keep them from suffering their entire lives. It’s a necessary evil that also prevents the spread of disease and poor genetics. Be sure to research culling and what to look for. I feed my culls (provided they are not diseased) to my axolotl or cichlids so nothing goes to waste.
 
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PeachesAndGypsy

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Okay! I think I might get a HMPK female even though I’ll most likely end up with long fins. Halfmoon koi females are really hard to find! In my area, long fin koi’s are rare in big box pet stores and in LFS. So I think the koi babies will be easy to sell! And when I decide to breed my orange Dalmatian, my LFS said they would take some of the full grown bettas for $5 a piece!
This is my Orange Dalmatian veiltail male btw. His name is Peaches!

And this is my marble koi hm male! He marbled quite a bit from the time I bought him to the time I got him shipped to me! His fins are also a little messed up from shipping. I think he tail bit a little.

I know I’ll have to cull fry. I know it’ll be hard to as well. I do know someone in my area that is a betta and fish rescuer and she will take in culls that might have a quality of life. The ones that might not have a quality of life, I’ll cull. But, she doesn’t breed her fish so if she ends up taking some culls that I might have, I know they won’t pass down their genetics. I’ve done a little research on how to cull fry humanely but, I haven’t done much research about what to look for in fry and what to cull. So I’ll do that right now.
 
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