Betta Breeding By Mistake

So I have a male red veil tail betta and a white/purple dumbo female. They were in a tank with a divider (temp situation) and she jumped over. Things happened and I now have a bubblenest filled with eggs and have no idea what to do with them. I want to raise the fry but I really have no idea what I'm doing beyond brine shrimp, and even that I don't know how to feed to keep the salt out of the rearing tank.
Much helpings please?
Just to clarify, my major questions are this:
How to feed?
When to remove the males?
How to move the fry (they're in a 1 gallon tank right now with the male because this was not supposed to happen) because I have a 36 bow front I can raise them in (I had to replace it because it broke but I can fill it about 20 gallons full)?
Also, can they be raised with guppy fry? I mean until it's time to separate everyone? Because I have two breeding boxes full of fry (around 25-ish in total) and I would like to use the 36 for those and the bettas if possible.
I am a total newbie at this and was not planning on this happening! Please help!

 

You may want to cull them if this is unexpected. Each male will need tank separate, heated and filtered.

 

Could OP cull the males once they can tell sexes? Or would that take too long? I know little about betta raising.

 

But why cull the males when you have spent so much time/money raising them?

 

I do want to raise them. I know it's complicated and expensive but I really do want to try. So, any answers for my questions?

 

Ok, so you need about 50 large jars/tanks that can be equipped with heaters and filters. Also a auto water change system is for convienience but optional.

You also need microworms/bbs and a 20 long tank can hold the females.

 

Really a fan of these racks. Seems doable.

 

So I have a male red veil tail betta and a white/purple dumbo female. They were in a tank with a divider (temp situation) and she jumped over. Things happened and I now have a bubblenest filled with eggs and have no idea what to do with them. I want to raise the fry but I really have no idea what I'm doing beyond brine shrimp, and even that I don't know how to feed to keep the salt out of the rearing tank.
Much helpings please?
Just to clarify, my major questions are this:
How to feed?
When to remove the males?
How to move the fry (they're in a 1 gallon tank right now with the male because this was not supposed to happen) because I have a 36 bow front I can raise them in (I had to replace it because it broke but I can fill it about 20 gallons full)?
Also, can they be raised with guppy fry? I mean until it's time to separate everyone? Because I have two breeding boxes full of fry (around 25-ish in total) and I would like to use the 36 for those and the bettas if possible.
I am a total newbie at this and was not planning on this happening! Please help!

Okay, i'm confused, you have a male betta with a "bubble nest full of [accidental] eggs" but they aren't in the divided tank, "they're in a 1 gallon tank right now with the male because this was not supposed to happen"? Whaaat? How did you move a bubble nest full of eggs from a divided tank to a 1 gallon tank?

 

The 1 gallon tank was divided while I was setting up a new tank for the female. Then she jumped and I am in this predicament now.

 

The 1 gallon tank was divided while I was setting up a new tank for the female. Then she jumped and I am in this predicament now.

Okay. That explains that. Take the male out about a day after the fry are free swimming.
Where are you going to move him?

 

I would see if we can get our resident breeder Demeter to chime in...

 

FinalFins
I know you have high standards for care but let's not get ridiculous. There are plenty of breeders (myself included) who do not have that and it works out fine. Mechanical filtration is not necessary if you do large daily water changes. It does exactly the same.
Individual heaters are not necessary as long as you can think of a trick to make the atmosphere that the jars are in warm enough and stable. If you can keep them in a closed room or cabinet with a heater that maintains room (or internal space in the cabinet) temp that will do. You can also put the jars in a much larger tank, filled it up to just below the rims of the jars, put something to circulate the water around the jars (powerhead, small filter) and a heater next to the circulator. One heater = anywhere from 5 to 15 jars depending on the size of the tank.

As for 50, well that is pretty optimistic. Losing (nearly) all fry in your first spawn is very common (I would know). Even if they manage to get some to adulthood it usually isn't more than a handful to about 20 fish, half of which will be female. The odds are less so if you haven't researched beforehand. So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I see Demeter has just been pinged so she will chime in but for now:
If the tank isn't already covered, cover it with a tight fitting lid. You need humidity in there. If there is a source of flow/surface agitation in the tank, turn it off. The newborn fry can't handle any flow.

Google how to make infusoria. The fry can't eat BBS the first few days after they become free swimming, you need a smaller food for the first stage. You can also get some live plants from a well established tank and toss those in, there are already micro-organisms growing on those.
If you know someone who has a microworm culture, get and snag some from them asap.

Edit: Oh and first and foremost - do not move the eggs/nest or the male. Leave them in the tank they are in now. You can't really move the nest with eggs without destroying the nest. The male is needed until the fry are free-swimming. Even after they hatch and hang from the nest, they need the male to take care of them or you will lose the majority of your fry.

 

FinalFins
I know you have high standards for care but let's not get ridiculous. There are plenty of breeders (myself included) who do not have that and it works out fine. Mechanical filtration is not necessary if you do large daily water changes. It does exactly the same.
Individual heaters are not necessary as long as you can think of a trick to make the atmosphere that the jars are in warm enough and stable. If you can keep them in a closed room or cabinet with a heater that maintains room (or internal space in the cabinet) temp that will do. You can also put the jars in a much larger tank, filled it up to just below the rims of the jars, put something to circulate the water around the jars (powerhead, small filter) and a heater next to the circulator. One heater = anywhere from 5 to 15 jars depending on the size of the tank.

As for 50, well that is pretty optimistic. Losing (nearly) all fry in your first spawn is very common (I would know). Even if they manage to get some to adulthood it usually isn't more than a handful to about 20 fish, half of which will be female. The odds are less so if you haven't researched beforehand. So I wouldn't worry too much about it.

I see Demeter has just been pinged so she will chime in but for now:
If the tank isn't already covered, cover it with a tight fitting lid. You need humidity in there. If there is a source of flow/surface agitation in the tank, turn it off. The newborn fry can't handle any flow.

Google how to make infusoria. The fry can't eat BBS the first few days after they become free swimming, you need a smaller food for the first stage. You can also get some live plants from a well established tank and toss those in, there are already micro-organisms growing on those.
If you know someone who has a microworm culture, get and snag some from them asap.

Edit: Oh and first and foremost - do not move the eggs/nest or the male. Leave them in the tank they are in now. You can't really move the nest with eggs without destroying the nest. The male is needed until the fry are free-swimming. Even after they hatch and hang from the nest, they need the male to take care of them or you will lose the majority of your fry.

Thanks for the info. I don't plan to move the male, I know that much. There's no way I can heat and filter each container individually, I do daily water changes on my two betta tanks right now (though currently not on the egg one obviously) so hopefully that works out.
Honestly I hope you're right about the fry losses, because I have no idea what I would do with a hundred bettas. I have thirty guppies in breeder boxes right now that I barely know what to do with (hopefully my LFS will buy them/just take them because THIRTY GUPPIES/oscar bait).
Just realized how freaking useful a floating mouth like an oscar is LOL.
I will look into infusoria...about how much to feed daily? Also can bettas be raised with guppies, I know it's probably a dumb question but I have to ask because I have all those guppies.

 

I've been summoned at a not so great time, running on half a bottle of wine but I will do my best

Provided dad is a good boy and takes care of the eggs/fry w/o eating them, here's a quick run down.

The eggs have already been laid and are now developing. In about 36 hours they will hatch and around 2-3 days later they will be swimming around and wanting to eat, at which point you should remove the male. Infusoria, micro worms and baby brine shrimp are the first foods that are best suited for them. The tiniest food being infusoria is what's best for the first several days. I've gotten by with simply having lots of leaves in the spawning tank (infusoria factories in short) and adding micro worms a couple times a day. In a pinch you can try hard boiled egg yolk, they won't want to eat it as it doesn't move but some may survive on it. Just add a tiny bit mixed with water, say a couple drops around the tank, feed a few times a day.

If you little ones make it a week after free swimming then you are doing fairly well. Get some brine shrimp eggs, do some researching and feed them 3 times a day while also doing small water changes daily. A seasoned sponge filter set on low and a temp about 82F is best. Larger water changes can suffice in no sponge filter is available. Betta fry can be raised with just about any non aggressive/smaller fish needing the same temp and dietary requirements. I have OB peacocks with my older betta spawn right now and so far I've seen no aggression between the two, just among their own kind. Granted they cannot stay together as adults, most things can work with fry.

My first successful spawn ended up with a whopping 14 bettas. Other spawns yielded about 30-40 and my last spawn had a mere 3 tiny fry. It's a toss up and if you don't pay attention to the little ones things can go bad real fast. Separating the males takes some creativity, Oddly enough I have 2 young males in my sorority and no one has any battle scars. Separate the aggressive ones as they appear and go form there. Talk to you local pet stores, ask friends and family if they want a little friend.

Did I mention doing research on your own? That will do the most for you and your fish, always do research and read several things to make sure the facts add up.

 

I have been doing research but I haven't been able to find much. What kind of leaves? I don't have live plants (too complicated plus I started with cichlids so they didn't seem practical and I found cheap plastic ones so ran with that).
It's good to know they can be with the guppies. The 1 gallon they're in now doesn't have heating or filter (I know, I know, but the two males have been in there months and been just fine, my basement is the warmest room in the house so they're perfectly happy) so how/when should I move them?

 

Thanks for the info. I don't plan to move the male, I know that much. There's no way I can heat and filter each container individually, I do daily water changes on my two betta tanks right now (though currently not on the egg one obviously) so hopefully that works out.
Honestly I hope you're right about the fry losses, because I have no idea what I would do with a hundred bettas. I have thirty guppies in breeder boxes right now that I barely know what to do with (hopefully my LFS will buy them/just take them because THIRTY GUPPIES/oscar bait).
Just realized how freaking useful a floating mouth like an oscar is LOL.
I will look into infusoria...about how much to feed daily? Also can bettas be raised with guppies, I know it's probably a dumb question but I have to ask because I have all those guppies.

There you have it, advice from a drunk expert! (Demeter sounds too solid for drunken rambling though, unless you are one of those good drunks?). That is the rundown though.

Bettas are easier to rehome than guppies IME but they take up more space and you can unusually only rehome one per taker unlike guppies. Do think about this conundrum before deciding to raise them - that you may be stuck with the adults for a while and will have to take care of them. If you are really set on it though --
Note that you have to be careful with fluctuations of any kind in the fry tank - whether this is temperature, water parameters, flow/surface, etc. Do any water changes slowly and carefully, and don't do more than 20% changes at a time for the first few weeks. Very small changes of 5-10% might be better if you want to play it safe, then just do it twice.
The air above the tank needs to be humid and roughly the same temp as the water, which is why a good lid (I use clingfoil for all anabantoid fry) is necessary. Try to keep opening of the lid to a minimum so the warm air stays trapped.

And I totally agree with just reading and googling. The more accounts you read the more you learn about different options, and what is really crucial and what isn't.

As for the oscar bit. Actually I know quite a few breeders of various fish species that keep predatory fish for culling... myself included.

 

I've used dried oak and maple leaves as well as Indian Almost leaves. Driftwood has a similar effect, both work. I move fry when they are around a cm long, using a soft shrimp net. Since yours are in a tiny tank you should move them sooner rather than later. After a couple weeks of free swimming you should move them, of course making sure they are not with guppies who are big enough to nip/eat them.

I also cull by feeding fry to other critters. My axolotl gets larger culls while the peacock cichlids get the smaller ones.

here you have it, advice from a drunk expert! (@Demeter sounds too solid for drunken rambling though, unless you are one of those good drunks?).

It's been roughly an hour since finishing off the bottle, I think I'm getting over the buzz as I no longer feel a bit dizzy LOL. My friend got the brunt of the tipsy rambling, now I'm just tired

 

It's been roughly an hour since finishing off the bottle, I think I'm getting over the buzz as I no longer feel a bit dizzy LOL. My friend got the brunt of the tipsy rambling, now I'm just tired

....

Indian Almost leaves.

I rest my case.

 

What can I say, I try my best

 

I have driftwood, hopefully that works. Do I just leave it in there?

 

I have driftwood, hopefully that works. Do I just leave it in there?

Yup, just plop it in. Organic material always has some decaying portions (dead cells etc.), these are eaten by all sorts of bacteria and organisms, that are then eaten by other organisms, etc. The infusoria that are made by putting a lettuce leaf in a jar of water is essentially the same process, except if you do it like this the density is generally lower but the risk is near zero (as in, it won't foul your water).
So basically any organic material from established tanks (though make sure they are disease-free) will work. It even works with rocks if there is some biofilm on them.

 

An idea to get rid of the excess that are otherwise healthy....

Many churches/religious organizations and civic youth organizations have summer youth camps.

They are often happy with "Donations" they can use as prizes and gifts....

Timing wise - that's approximately June/July - which gives the fry 8 months to grow out and for you to make contact with the organizations..... That's about right to get them mostly full size...

If you do decide to do this - it probably helps to make up a basic care sheet showing a minimum tank setup and some basic care recommendations....

 

An idea to get rid of the excess that are otherwise healthy....

Many churches/religious organizations and civic youth organizations have summer youth camps.

They are often happy with "Donations" they can use as prizes and gifts....

Timing wise - that's approximately June/July - which gives the fry 8 months to grow out and for you to make contact with the organizations..... That's about right to get them mostly full size...

If you do decide to do this - it probably helps to make up a basic care sheet showing a minimum tank setup and some basic care recommendations....

That's a really good idea. The only thing is I don't know if I trust small children with my fish, but that may have to be dealt with.

Yup, just plop it in. Organic material always has some decaying portions (dead cells etc.), these are eaten by all sorts of bacteria and organisms, that are then eaten by other organisms, etc. The infusoria that are made by putting a lettuce leaf in a jar of water is essentially the same process, except if you do it like this the density is generally lower but the risk is near zero (as in, it won't foul your water).
So basically any organic material from established tanks (though make sure they are disease-free) will work. It even works with rocks if there is some biofilm on them.

Will do! I have plenty of driftwood in my established tanks, I'll just grab a piece of that. Hopefully it fits...

 

They've hatched!! The dad is now swimming up and down catching them, and I'm kind of freaking out because I do not have brine shrimp. I did put the driftwood in so hopefully that works.

 

Do post your updates here
I currently have a batch with 5 day old fry cooking. (photo @ 3 days old)

They've hatched!! The dad is now swimming up and down catching them, and I'm kind of freaking out because I do not have brine shrimp. I did put the driftwood in so hopefully that works.

Don't fret, the first two days they will hang in the nest and boing up and down (sort of), fall down and have dad pick them up. They are still eating their egg sacks, any food you add now would just end up fouling the water as neither dad nor fry will eat it. These are your do-nothing days.
Which you can use to get the food ready. Keep in mind that the first few days they are free swimming (so basically the next 7 days including these two were you feed them nothing) they are too small for brine shrimp, it won't fit in their mouths. So again, feeding BBS too early will just foul your water when they die. Don't be tempted.

 

That's good to know. The driftwood's in the tank, I ordered an air stone for my grow tank and that, the brine shrimp and the heater are coming tomorrow. I know I don't need any of that yet I just want to have it.

 

That's good to know. The driftwood's in the tank, I ordered an air stone for my grow tank and that, the brine shrimp and the heater are coming tomorrow. I know I don't need any of that yet I just want to have it.

Better than panicking at the last minute because you have no baby food

 

They're sort of free-swimming...some are sticking to the wall of the tank, a lot are falling but the dad doesn't seem to see all of them. TBH I can't see a lot of them either because I'm smart and put white sand in a tank with white fry! Yay!
What exactly constitutes "free-swimming"? Because they do this bouncing thing around the surface but it's not really swimming. And they tend to fall to the bottom a lot still.

 

They're sort of free-swimming...some are sticking to the wall of the tank, a lot are falling but the dad doesn't seem to see all of them. TBH I can't see a lot of them either because I'm smart and put white sand in a tank with white fry! Yay!
What exactly constitutes "free-swimming"? Because they do this bouncing thing around the surface but it's not really swimming. And they tend to fall to the bottom a lot still.

This stage is not yet free-swimming. What has happened is that the eggs have hatched (24~36 hours after spawning), as in, the main bodies of the fry have developed and you can see the tails hanging down, plus they are capable of some movement. However, they are still attached to their egg sacks, which they are consuming. Their swim bladder is not functioning yet and they can't swim yet. Dad is supposed to pick up the fry that fall and don't get back up the nest themselves, though each dad has a different degree of efficiency (some fry will lay there for a while then still decide to swim back up).

This stage takes two to three days. The nest will usually start to get smaller around this time as dad makes less and less effort maintaining it. Then suddenly the nest will be gone and the fry will have dispersed over the tank - this is when they are free swimming and can move horizontally instead of just bobbing vertically up and down. When you notice this, you can remove the dad.
(So based on the timeline, any time now they will start free swimming)

 

That's about right...they hatched Thursday so it should be later tonight or tomorrow. Hopefully it doesn't happen during the night and they get eaten...

 

That's about right...they hatched Thursday so it should be later tonight or tomorrow. Hopefully it doesn't happen during the night and they get eaten...

It isn't something you have too much control over, though from my limited experience if they haven't been eaten up to now it is unlikely they will be. Good dads will eat fry that die to keep the water clean, so don't freak out if you see him eating some unmoving fry on the bottom.
I've kept one of my dads with his fry for a month without any problems. Another was with free-swimming fry for a whole day because I was at work till late at night, he didn't eat any as far as I could tell. Other dads eat all their eggs immediately after spawning.. it can be anywhere on the spectrum. But honestly I don't think the odds are very high that a dad that has cared diligently for his fry all this time will suddenly eat all of them when they start free-swimming. Maybe a couple, but not the majority.
I'm so excited for you ^^ Keep updates coming!

 

It isn't something you have too much control over, though from my limited experience if they haven't been eaten up to now it is unlikely they will be. Good dads will eat fry that die to keep the water clean, so don't freak out if you see him eating some unmoving fry on the bottom.
I've kept one of my dads with his fry for a month without any problems. Another was with free-swimming fry for a whole day because I was at work till late at night, he didn't eat any as far as I could tell. Other dads eat all their eggs immediately after spawning.. it can be anywhere on the spectrum. But honestly I don't think the odds are very high that a dad that has cared diligently for his fry all this time will suddenly eat all of them when they start free-swimming. Maybe a couple, but not the majority.
I'm so excited for you ^^ Keep updates coming!

Thanks! Yeah he hasn't eaten any yet, that I've noticed. He's just picking them up and spitting them back out at the bubble-nest, which is good. I will keep the updates! Can't wait to see what they look like grown-up...both the parents are gorgeous so hopefully the fry are great too!

 

So they still aren't free-swimming and it feels like there's a lot less of them (like 10-15 when there were like 50 yesterday). The father's still picking them up and putting them back in the nest but it's kind of off-hand, he's not even putting them back in the bubbles. Is something wrong?

 

So they still aren't free-swimming and it feels like there's a lot less of them (like 10-15 when there were like 50 yesterday). The father's still picking them up and putting them back in the nest but it's kind of off-hand, he's not even putting them back in the bubbles. Is something wrong?

Hmm.. it doesn't really sound right, no. Though if something is wrong, again, at this stage there is little you can do about it. What happens, happens. I would still put very tiny amounts of live food in the water in case those 40 or so that you are missing are actually free swimming and hiding out somewhere (unless you are keeping them in a mostly empty tank and are sure there aren't any). They are really good at hiding behind heaters and on your white substrate. I've had a tank of fry that I thought got wiped, I repurposed the tank and handled it kind of roughly. Put in other inhabitants. Month later I suddenly find two well-grown fry still alive in there. Whoops.

 

Ok so a bunch were actually hiding and now they're all feeding off the driftwood. Should I remove the dad? He's not doing much anymore.

 

Ok so a bunch were actually hiding and now they're all feeding off the driftwood. Should I remove the dad? He's not doing much anymore.

Haha, see, I thought so.
If there is zero movement from the fry he is still picking up (keep an eye on them for some 10 mins), remove them with a turkey baster.
Lure the father in a corner with some floating food so you can net him out with minimal chance of netting fry by accident.

 

So I just picked him up with my hand, there's no bubble nest left, he's now in my other betta tank (the previous occupant is temporarily in a breeding box in my 40 gallon) and the babies seem to be free-swimming or at least they can shoot up any time the tank is the least bit disturbed. Do you think moving them to my guppy grow tank is a good idea? The guppies are somewhere between 7-10 days old, big enough that you can see their fins and some black spots. Will they eat the bettas/will the bettas be stressed by the move?

 

So I just picked him up with my hand, there's no bubble nest left, he's now in my other betta tank (the previous occupant is temporarily in a breeding box in my 40 gallon) and the babies seem to be free-swimming or at least they can shoot up any time the tank is the least bit disturbed. Do you think moving them to my guppy grow tank is a good idea? The guppies are somewhere between 7-10 days old, big enough that you can see their fins and some black spots. Will they eat the bettas/will the bettas be stressed by the move?

How many guppy fry are there? If there aren't many then it should be okay. If there are more than 30 then I'd say no because they will probably outcompete the betta fry for food and they will grow very slowly. Despite that you shouldn't have a problem with guppy fry eating them, they are much too small to even try.

Once you can tell males and females apart and/or males start becoming aggressive to one another, you can probably sell the fry to a pet store. I wouldn't know how long it takes for them to reach a sellable size however.

 

So I just picked him up with my hand, there's no bubble nest left, he's now in my other betta tank (the previous occupant is temporarily in a breeding box in my 40 gallon) and the babies seem to be free-swimming or at least they can shoot up any time the tank is the least bit disturbed. Do you think moving them to my guppy grow tank is a good idea? The guppies are somewhere between 7-10 days old, big enough that you can see their fins and some black spots. Will they eat the bettas/will the bettas be stressed by the move?

I would not move betta fry that is under a week old unless it is a live-or-death emergency (as in, not moving means killing them anyway). If you are worried about density in the 1-gallon you can move a handful of them (insurance in case something goes wrong in that tank, you don't end up losing them all). Be extremely gentle about it though. And make sure the parameters in the tank they being moved to (water quality, temperature) matches closely those of the one they are coming from.

I'm not so confident that the guppy fry wouldn't eat the bettas that just hatched a few days ago.. but again, you could try it with a few to see if it works out.

(Personally, if my choice was between leaving the betta fry with their father and moving them in with guppies, I would go with the former).

 

How many guppy fry are there? If there aren't many then it should be okay. If there are more than 30 then I'd say no because they will probably outcompete the betta fry for food and they will grow very slowly. Despite that you shouldn't have a problem with guppy fry eating them, they are much too small to even try.

Once you can tell males and females apart and/or males start becoming aggressive to one another, you can probably sell the fry to a pet store. I wouldn't know how long it takes for them to reach a sellable size however.

There's around 22-25. The grow tank is a 36g bow front that's only filled partially because it cracked near the top a few weeks ago. There's no filter for obvious reasons, I don't want my fry getting vacuumed up, but they're so small atm that they don't make much waste.
I'm probably going to actually keep most of the fry. I don't have many, probably around 20-30, and who knows if all of them will grow up or not. I will look into selling off the less colorful males though.
How would you move them? I don't want them to get tossed around by pouring them out.
Edit: Lol, PascalKrypt ninjad me. Whoops. Yeah, that was what I was wondering about. When would you recommend that they leave the 1 gallon?