Betta and cories rubbing on decorations, clamped fins and bloat? Velvet?

BettaFishObsessed

Member
My betta has a little bit of fin rot and I had posted about a little cut I noticed a little less than a week ago. Now my betta has clamped fins, rubbing against decorations, swimming in circles, a gray growth/cut? And fin rot. My cories are sick too, i assume whats wrong with my betta is wrong with them, same symptoms.


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Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 10 gallons
How long has the tank been running? Since January
Does it have a filter? Yes
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 77°F
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
1 male betta fish
4 albino cory catfish

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Once a week
How much of the water do you change? 25%
What do you use to treat your water? API Stress Coat +, API Quick Start, API Leaf Zone
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? I vacuum the substrate then syphon out the water.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes
What do you use to test the water? API Freshwater Master Test Kit
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5
pH: 6.2

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? 6 days a week once a day
How much do you feed your fish? Betta- 5 pellets (once a week- a tiny pinch of freeze dried bloodworms) Cories- 2 pellets per cory
What brand of food do you feed your fish? Northfin Betta Pellets, Tetra Freeze Dried Bloodworms, Aqueon Omnivore Bottom Feeder tablets, Aqueon Shrimp Pellets, Tetra PlecoWafers.
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? Yes

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? 4 months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? A few days ago
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Clamped fins, fin rot, swimming in circles, rubbing on decorations
Have you started any treatment for the illness? No
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? No
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? White fin edges and ragged edges, clamping fins, lethargic, swimming in circles, gray cut/growth on side, rubbing on decorations

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

My betta had a little cut or growth in his side a week ago. It healed a little, then got bigger and turned gray. The cut looks necrotic and dying, not fungal or anything. He had no behavior changes until last night when he started having clamped fins, he started swimming in circles, and being lethargic and rubbing agaisnt decorations. He is still eating though. He is not having trouble swimming, he can still swim around like normal at feeding time. He just seems confused. He also had no bloat or pineconing.
 

DanielZebra32798

Member
Rubbing against things is often a symptom of parasites, as well as lethargy and swimming erratically. It could also be some sort of infection as a result of his cut. I'm sorry for your beta and corys, and I hope that they heal well. Also, this is just my opinion, but I would wait for others who have more experience and can suggest the right course to take.
 

Mazeus

Member
Any chance of a picture? That might help with feedback.
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
DanielZebra32798 said:
Rubbing against things is often a symptom of parasites, as well as lethargy and swimming erratically. It could also be some sort of infection as a result of his cut. I'm sorry for your beta and corys, and I hope that they heal well. Also, this is just my opinion, but I would wait for others who have more experience and can suggest the right course to take.
That’s what I though, parasites. It seems like ick but there are no spots. I didn’t think about an infection, but then why would the cories have anything? They are in one piece. I did add new plants a while ago but its been weeks and I bleach dipped them. Thank you by the way

Mazeus said:
Any chance of a picture? That might help with feedback.
I am going to post pictures later he is moving so I can’t get a good one right now.
 

DanielZebra32798

Member
BettaFishObsessed said:
That’s what I though, parasites. It seems like ick but there are no spots. I didn’t think about an infection, but then why would the cories have anything? They are in one piece. I did add new plants a while ago but its been weeks and I bleach dipped them. Thank you by the way
Sorry if I missed it, but do the cories have the exact same symptoms? do they also swim erratically and rub against decor? (when they aren't still in the same place)
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
DanielZebra32798 said:
Sorry if I missed it, but do the cories have the exact same symptoms? do they also swim erratically and rub against decor? (when they aren't still in the same place)
Yes they are doing that too. Although they are a little more lethargic, they still have all the same symptoms.
 

mattgirl

Member
The very first thing I would do is a 50% water change now and another one tomorrow. If you have only been changing 25% of the water in this tank it is possible the things we don't normally test for have been gradually building up in this tank and have finally gotten high enough to start affecting your fish.

Once the 2 50% water changes have been done I highly recommend you change out no less than 50% of the water each week and then once a month change out more.

I do have to ask. Is your pH always this low? What is the pH of your source water?

sorry mods. I was afraid these important questions would be missed if I just edited my original post.
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
mattgirl said:
I do have to ask. Is your pH always this low? What is the pH of your source water?

sorry mods. I was afraid these important questions would be missed if I just edited my original post.
No my pH is normally at 6.8, it gradually dropped over a few weeks about a month ago and I am trying to get my hands on some pH balancer. My tap water pH is about 6.7, but each water change it goes up then back down . Also I will be sure to do the 50% water changes, thank you I didn’t know I should change 50% once a month I will start doing that.
 

AvalancheDave

Member
You can just trickle in baking soda to slowly increase pH. 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gal every 2+ hours. Re-check pH two hours after the 4th dose. Keep going until pH is >7.

I have seen fish with bacterial infections flash but it's not that common. It does sound like you might have a bacterial infection among other things.
 

mattgirl

Member
BettaFishObsessed said:
No my pH is normally at 6.8, it gradually dropped over a few weeks about a month ago and I am trying to get my hands on some pH balancer. My tap water pH is about 6.7, but each water change it goes up then back down . Also I will be sure to do the 50% water changes, thank you I didn’t know I should change 50% once a month I will start doing that.
Not once month. You need to change out that much each week. I have to think the main reason I've never had to deal with any of the many diseases fish can get is because I change out no less than 50% of the water in each of my tanks every week. Giving your water pets fresh clean water is the very best thing you can do for them.

The bacteria that keeps our tanks cycled do not live in the water. The bacteria is growing mostly on our filter media because the food (ammonia) is being pulled in there but it also grows on all the surfaces in our tanks. As long as you make sure to add your water conditioner to temp matched water before pouring it in the tank even big water changes will not harm either fish or cycle.

What you may want to do is set out a glass of water straight from your tap. Run the pH test as soon as you fill the glass. Write that number down. Let that glass of water sit for 24 hours and run the pH test again. If the number drops it will be telling us that your water lack the buffers needed to hold a constant pH level. If that is the case you can prevent the drop by adding some crushed coral to your tank. It will very slowly dissolve and as it does it will keep the pH up to the level of your tap water straight from the tap and will prevent these pH crashes..
 

feeshi

Member
Hey, since your ph is so low and you have raggedy fins with no white spots it could be Oodinium(velvet).
It thrives at lower ph, whereas I believe ich prefers it more neutral/alakline. Both parasites can infect the gills almost invisibly.
My PH is 6.4 and I had flashing, chipped fins and erratic glass surfing and it turned out to be velvet, in the late stages the gills swelled as this was where the parasite were hiding. I had to used medication, vacuming/water changes and blocking out light to get rid of it.
I know a lot of people recommend heat for parasites as it shortens parasite lifecyle and treatment time.
But if your betta has a wound on his side, turning up the heat will aid the growth of the bacterial/fungal infection, so I wouldn't raise the temperature in the tank past 80f or 26/27c. Just treat for longer instead.
 
  • Thread Starter

BettaFishObsessed

Member
mattgirl said:
Not once month. You need to change out that much each week. I have to think the main reason I've never had to deal with any of the many diseases fish can get is because I change out no less than 50% of the water in each of my tanks every week. Giving your water pets fresh clean water is the very best thing you can do for them.

The bacteria that keeps our tanks cycled do not live in the water. The bacteria is growing mostly on our filter media because the food (ammonia) is being pulled in there but it also grows on all the surfaces in our tanks. As long as you make sure to add your water conditioner to temp matched water before pouring it in the tank even big water changes will not harm either fish or cycle.

What you may want to do is set out a glass of water straight from your tap. Run the pH test as soon as you fill the glass. Write that number down. Let that glass of water sit for 24 hours and run the pH test again. If the number drops it will be telling us that your water lack the buffers needed to hold a constant pH level. If that is the case you can prevent the drop by adding some crushed coral to your tank. It will very slowly dissolve and as it does it will keep the pH up to the level of your tap water straight from the tap and will pervent these pH crashes..
okay thank you for all the info! I will change 50% each week and I will double check the tap pH once right away then once after 24 hours. Thank you!

AvalancheDave said:
You can just trickle in baking soda to slowly increase pH. 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gal every 2+ hours. Re-check pH two hours after the 4th dose. Keep going until pH is >7.

I have seen fish with bacterial infections flash but it's not that common. It does sound like you might have a bacterial infection among other things.
the baking soda won’t have any other effect?

feeshi said:
Hey, since your ph is so low and you have raggedy fins with no white spots it could be Oodinium(velvet).
It thrives at lower ph, whereas I believe ich prefers it more neutral/alakline. Both parasites can infect the gills almost invisibly.
My PH is 6.4 and I had flashing, chipped fins and erratic glass surfing and it turned out to be velvet, in the late stages the gills swelled as this was where the parasite were hiding. I had to used medication, vacuming/water changes and blocking out light to get rid of it.
I know a lot of people recommend heat for parasites as it shortens parasite lifecyle and treatment time.
But if your betta has a wound on his side, turning up the heat will aid the growth of the bacterial/fungal infection, so I wouldn't raise the temperature in the tank past 80f or 26/27c. Just treat for longer instead.
Ok I won’t raise the temp. Im not sure its velvet, dont they have a gold dust with velvet? Mine do not, but I will double check. They are not glass surfing, they just swim in circles.

Edit: he does not have velvet, no gold dust. I will do the 50% water change but that won’t cure him. Can someone give me a recap of what antibiotics/medicine/anything please
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
Just got home, no good news. Bettas fin rot somehow got even worse and cories look slightly bloated, cories look a little redish, and my betta is turning blueish?????? They are better a little behavior wise, all fish are glass surfing though, betta will swim around a little then scratch along the bottom. And swim in circles sometimes. What do I do
Edit 1:Also bettas cut looks like a bump now
Edit 2:Here are pics
Edit 3:I outlined where the cories stomach usually is in one pic
Edit 4:No pineconing on betta

Hello help anyone

time sensitive question here
 

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BettasAreSuperior

Member
I believe your betta has velvet. It is a parasite that causes fish to rub against rocks. here are all the symptoms. A type of behavior where your betta tries to rub off any unwanted pests on his body. Here is the very helpful article which I recommend you read and where I got my info. Please read the articles they will help. ALSO DO NOT TREAT WITH SALT CORYDORAS ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO SALT.

1.

2.

Hope your fish make it!

Source: the links listed above
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
bettaandcorylover said:
I believe your betta has velvet. It is a parasite that causes fish to rub against rocks. here are all the symptoms. A type of behavior where your betta tries to rub off any unwanted pests on his body. Here is the very helpful article which I recommend you read and where I got my info. Please read the articles they will help. ALSO DO NOT TREAT WITH SALT CORYDORAS ARE VERY SENSITIVE TO SALT.

1.

2.

Hope your fish make it!
Im not so sure it’s velvet still. They are not loosing weight, they have a huge appetite still, no gold dust, and they are not having any discoloration. I just don’t want to medicate for velvet if its not velvet.
 

AggressiveAquatics

Member
I would recommend giving him a salt bath for a couple minutes ( not in main tank )
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
Darwinthebloodparrot said:
I would recommend giving him a salt bath for a couple minutes ( not in main tank )
what part of his problem will that help treat
And what about the cories i cant do that for them
 

AggressiveAquatics

Member
The salt would help with the fin rot and maybe the possible external parasites because he’s rubbing on things and like I mentioned before put him in a bucket with some tank water and either aquarium salt or unscented epsom salt so it won’t affect the Cories
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
Darwinthebloodparrot said:
The salt would help with the fin rot and maybe the possible external parasites because he’s rubbing on things and like I mentioned before put him in a bucket with some tank water and either aquarium salt or unscented epsom salt so it won’t affect the Cories
Okay thanks i will do this
What size bowl/bucket should I use for the salt baths
How do I acclimate him from a cup with tankwater to the saltwater bowl
How do I put him back since I cant acclimate him because of the cories
Im sorry ive never done this before and don’t want to hurt my fish
 

AggressiveAquatics

Member
Any size bucket should be fine as long as the betta has room to swim even a one gallon should be ok
You don’t need to acclimate as long as the water is the same temp just scoop him out and add him to the saltwater. He should be in there for about 5-10 minutes and most importantly make sure the salt is unscented and has no additives to it. because the Cories are salt sensitive you should take him out of the salt and into a new bowl of your tank water so any extra salt on him could rinse off and I’m not sure what you can do to help the Cories sorry
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
Darwinthebloodparrot said:
Any size bucket should be fine as long as the betta has room to swim even a one gallon should be ok
You don’t need to acclimate as long as the water is the same temp just scoop him out and add him to the saltwater. He should be in there for about 5-10 minutes and most importantly make sure the salt is unscented and has no additives to it. because the Cories are salt sensitive you should take him out of the salt and into a new bowl of your tank water so any extra salt on him could rinse off and I’m not sure what you can do to help the Cories sorry
Okay, thank you I will do the salt bath
 

AggressiveAquatics

Member
If you need more info there some threads around you can look at

After this I would recommend lowering the lighting and raising the temp by a few degrees to help both the betta and the Cories
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
So just to recap my plan from what I’ve gathered here:
Do a 50% water change today
Do salt baths for betta
Aerate the tank
Completely blackout the tank
Raise the temp
Treat with methylene blue (how do I get this?)

Any objections
 

AggressiveAquatics

Member
Sounds good to me but I don’t know where to get methylene blue because I’ve never needed it but I do know it can stain any decor or ornaments you have in your tank
 

BettasAreSuperior

Member
BettaFishObsessed said:
So just to recap my plan from what I’ve gathered here:
Do a 50% water change today
Do salt baths for betta
Aerate the tank
Completely blackout the tank
Raise the temp
Treat with methylene blue (how do I get this?)

Any objections
Yes, you got everything you need and remember salt bath for the betta only don't add it in the main tank plants and corydoras will die. Anyway, you can get methylene blue from amazon. Also read the link down below, I recommend level 3 treatment and keep the betta in the container for an hour. Once again, good luck!

Must read link:

Darwinthebloodparrot said:
Sounds good to me but I don’t know where to get methylene blue because I’ve never needed it but I do know it can stain any decor or ornaments you have in your tank
Also you are right it is a blue colored med so be careful but like and here is a link for the methylene blue and scroll down to the amazon have a question section and type in velvet and you will see reviews from other people saying it beat the velvet.

Link: https://www.amazon.com/Kordon-Methylene-Blue-General-Prevention-Treatment/dp/B00025646W/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3QAGFPGLEIVO9&dchild=1&keywords=methylene+blue&qid=1601080535&sprefix=methylene+,aps,419&sr=8-4
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
bettaandcorylover said:
Yes, you got everything you need and remember salt bath for the betta only don't add it in the main tank plants and corydoras will die. Anyway, you can get methylene blue from amazon. Also read the link down below, I recommend level 3 treatment and keep the betta in the container for an hour. Once again, good luck!

Must read link:
Okay, thank you!

Darwinthebloodparrot said:
Sounds good to me but I don’t know where to get methylene blue because I’ve never needed it but I do know it can stain any decor or ornaments you have in your tank
I have terra cotta pots, will it stain those?
 

BettasAreSuperior

Member
BettaFishObsessed said:
I have terra cotta pots, will it stain those?
Yes it will probably stain but if you use a quarantine tank it really doesn't matter but if you want to take the risk.. lol I sound like a meanie for some reason sorry and lol. hilarious
 

AggressiveAquatics

Member
Probably but I’m not sure maybe just remove them for the treatment but still keep them in some water so all the bb on it doesn’t die
Better safe than sorry I guess
 

BettasAreSuperior

Member
Darwinthebloodparrot said:
Probably but I’m not sure maybe just remove them for the treatment but still keep them in some water so all the bb on it doesn’t die
Better safe than sorry I guess
Ikr and I agree
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
Darwinthebloodparrot said:
Probably but I’m not sure maybe just remove them for the treatment but still keep them in some water so all the bb on it doesn’t die
Better safe than sorry I guess
Okay! Are they going to stain the driftwood? Gravel? Plastic decorations?
 

AggressiveAquatics

Member
Depends on what gravel you have if it’s white then probably but if it’s a darker color you should be ok and plastic decorations would also be stained if not removed. That being said even if you do have light gravel I wouldn’t recommend removing it and I have never had driftwood so I can’t tell you if it will stain it
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
bettaandcorylover said:
Here is the amazon link for the med.......Yes it will probably stain but if you use a quarantine tank it really doesn't matter but if you want to take the risk.. lol I sound like a meanie for some reason sorry and lol. hilarious

https://www.amazon.com/Kordon-Methylene-Blue-General-Prevention-Treatment/dp/B00025646W/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3QAGFPGLEIVO9&dchild=1&keywords=methylene+blue&qid=1601080535&sprefix=methylene+,aps,419&sr=8-4
You don’t sound mean. That sucks though I was hoping since they all have the same things then I wouldn’t need a quarantine tank.

where did the velvet come from. I just added some dwarf hairgrass but I sterilized it and it was “certified pest, parasite and disease free”. Did it come from there? Please tell me it didn’t because I have a 5 gallon cycling tank I put it in too and I don’t want to have to treat that too. I bet that is where it came from, I had a bad feeling about that :(
 

AggressiveAquatics

Member
Sadly if water parameters have been the same and nothing has fluctuated and no new fish were added it may have been the hairgrass:(

But as long as there are no fish in the other tank that’s cycling velvet can only live up to 2 days at most without a host so just take out the hairgrass and scrub the decor and you shouldn’t need to treat that tank
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
Darwinthebloodparrot said:
Sadly if water parameters have been the same and nothing has fluctuated and no new fish were added it may have been the hairgrass:(
Ugh that sucks. Yea, thats the only new thing. The pH dropped a little and there was a 0.25 ammonia spike that got fixed quickly like a week ago, but I doubt that was it. How will I treat the cycling tank is it the same way

Also guys if i set up a quarantine tank then how will I get parasites out of the original tank
 

BettasAreSuperior

Member
BettaFishObsessed said:
You don’t sound mean. That sucks though I was hoping since they all have the same things then I wouldn’t need a quarantine tank.

where did the velvet come from. I just added some dwarf hairgrass but I sterilized it and it was “certified pest, parasite and disease free”. Did it come from there? Please tell me it didn’t because I have a 5 gallon cycling tank I put it in too and I don’t want to have to treat that too. I bet that is where it came from, I had a bad feeling about that :(
lol. The reason I was saying about the quarantine tank is because you wouldn't want that med to stain your tank. You could do it in your tank but it probably would stain it. But hey! I mean you could do it in that 10 gal if you want to just thoroughly clean the tank and it should be fine. :) and do the salt bath for your betta only. Also read the info I listed It may help identifying the cause. Also read the ones I bolded... :banghead: :(. It'll be a rough month. Also did you read the salt article? Did it help? what level treatment are you doing?
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
bettaandcorylover said:
lol. The reason I was saying about the quarantine tank is because you wouldn't want that med to stain your tank. You could do it in your tank but it probably would stain it. But hey! I mean you could do it in that 10 gal if you want to just thoroughly clean the tank and it should be fine. :) and do the salt bath for your betta only. Also read the info I listed It may help identifying the cause. Also read the ones I bolded... :banghead: :(. It'll be a rough month. Also did you read the salt article? Did it help? what level treatment are you doing?

Causes of velvet:
  • Abrupt changes in water temperature
  • Introduction of new fish without quarantine
  • Tired fired that are lacking in defenses
  • Old water—you should be frequently changing your water.
  • Introduction of plants with cysts (if bringing in new plants, make sure to disinfect them prior to their introduction)

AND

  • Stress: Stress plays a significant role in immune system responses. When fish (or people, or any living thing, really) are stressed, their immune system is suppressed. Stress presents a perfect opportunity for all sorts of things to creep into their body.
  • Undeveloped immune system: this is the case when fry come down with velvet.
  • Newly Introduced fish: a recently introduced fish is, not only stressed, but likely stresses out established inhabitants as well. This intro is a prime opportunity to add a pathogen.
  • Newly introduced plants: pathogens can come in on any surface that was in an infected tank, including plants.
Okay, it’s definitely the plants. That sucks. I will only do salt for the betta. I hope the gravel doesn’t get stained :( thanks for all the help i will keep you updated!
 

BettasAreSuperior

Member
BettaFishObsessed said:
Okay, it’s definitely the plants. That sucks. I will only do salt for the betta. I hope the gravel doesn’t get stained :( thanks for all the help i will keep you updated!
:)
Your welcome and yes please keep us updated on this thread if possible! Good luck! ;)
 
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BettaFishObsessed

Member
bettaandcorylover said:
:)
Your welcome and yes please keep us updated on this thread if possible! Good luck! ;)
I will keep you guys updated! Also api general cute doesn’t work for velvet does it? I have some on hand and was just curious if that would work or if i do have to buy more medicine (no problem if i do just curious)
 
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