Beginner Marine Aquarist - I Know It Is Often Asked But I Have Quite A Few Questions.

Add the CUC as soon as you're cycled so they can get to work on the algae blooms that are sure to follow

 

Ok thanks for the reply

 

Yup, agree with Culprit most people add them right when they're cycled to manage the algae bloom that will happen, you don't *have* to, but that's usually the best time. With my first tank, I just kinda set it up and left it for a while, I had a HUGE algae bloom, but it was all gone within 2 months or so, my cleanup crew at that point was like 4 trochus snails in a 40 gallon tank, so it was pretty tiny, but if your plan is to get things going a little faster, as in have fish once you're cycled and not wait for 6 months like I did, you're gonna want the cleanup crew right away. Mine was setup around a time when I was traveling frequently, so it was left empty for a while, so the startup on it was very slow, it's pretty convenient that the rocks can maintain that cycle though!

 

awesome ill probably add the CUC and yellow clown goby together and wait for a week and then get the Clown pair. Should I add both clowns at the same time?

 

Definitely add both clowns at the same time! That way you're guaranteed that they're both juveniles, and they will eventually establish their pecking order and one will become female, you can add them at different times, but it's easier to just pick two juveniles who were already living together, and add them to the tank together. You will begin to see them "arguing" a bit, it freaked me out at first, but it's nothing to worry about, they will also twitch around each other sometimes, it looks freaky at first, but just know that it's nothing to worry about! Another thing I feel I should share, is with clownfish, always expect the unexpected. They are weird fish, mine will do weird stuff, like sleep sideways in the sandbed, fun little fish!

 

Haha ok that's good because I tend to worry over normal things so its good to know in advance
Thanks a lot really appreciated

 

No problem! Clownfish are weirdos and will do stuff that really doesn't seem right, like sleeping sideways in random places, it would worry me so much, but that's just their normal. They definitely have fun personalities!

 

I don't know how to thank you guys you literally answered all the questions I had. For CUC do you have any reccomendations as ive heard there are a few that you have to get back onto the right side lol. A six line wrasse looks beautiful so happy they can live in a 20 gallon. Do I need food for cleanup crew just in case if so what is it? also should I add them after a few weeks or before the wrasse?

Start with the cleanup crew after your brown algae bloom comes in. The good news is as long as there is algae in the tank they have food. As for which ones to get: I have had margarita snails, astrea snails, trochus snails and 3 types of turbo snails. The best all around snaill by far is the Trochus Snail. It is a voracious algae eater, fairly durable for an invert and it is one of the few snails that can flip itself over (a concern you mentioned). They also have a cool dark swirl pattern on their shells. Opinions on hermit crabs are mixed but the small scarlet/red hermit crabs are very useful IMHO. They eat fish poop, various kinds of algae and aren't going to bother anything unless it's dead. They have also saved me from a couple of dead rotting fish (Mandarin fish that refused to eat and a Firefish that got done in by an Aiptasia Anemone) that were buried in tight spaces under my live rock. Within a day the Red Hermits pulled the dead fish out in the open where it was easy to get at it to remove them and preventing a potential serious source of ammonia.

 

why do you have mixed opinions on hermit crabs? Also should I wait until after all algae is gone to get fish or while the CUC are dealing with it? I was hoping to get my yellow clown goby with them as well when algae bloom begins just because I'm kind of impatient and also to give them some more food (detritus). Also what do you think of my stocking? could I add any fish? If I can I will probably wait for a month or two see how I feel about my tank and get used to it.
Thanks a lot

 

You shouldn't introduce the detritus part of your CUC until they tanks been set up for a while. That will be like nassarius snails and fighting conchs. You can get the clown goby while the algae blooms are going. Just make sure your cycled. Stocking 2 clowns, 1 clown goby, and CUC sounds perfect. Another option instead of the clown goby, it acts the same but looks different is blue or green stripe goby. I would not add any fish to that.

 

You shouldn't introduce the detritus part of your CUC until they tanks been set up for a while. That will be like nassarius snails and fighting conchs. You can get the clown goby while the algae blooms are going. Just make sure your cycled. Stocking 2 clowns, 1 clown goby, and CUC sounds perfect. Another option instead of the clown goby, it acts the same but looks different is blue or green stripe goby. I would not add any fish to that.

Just a question ive seen people with clown pairs six line wrasses, firefish and a large CUC does that mean they are overstocked or is it ok for them because they have a 20 gallon long? Also what part of the CUC should I not introduce until the tank has been setup for a while as I'm not too sure One last question, how long should I wait to introduce them?
Thanks a lot

 

A 20 gallon long is a lot bigger then a 13.5 gallon. I'm going to have a clown pair, six line wrasse, and I have a YWG and pistol shrimp pair. I have 3 snails, 2 hermits, and 2 emeralds crabs. I'm not overstocked as a 20 long has lots of footprint and I will have good nutrient export.

The CUC you have listed - 2 banded trochus, 1 scarlet legged hermit, and 1 emerald are all good to go in as soon as your cycled. Eventually once the tank has matured and you get detritus you'll want to add a detritus eater like nassarius snails or a fighting conch.

 

I would definitely not put a clown pair, 6 line wrasses, and firefish into 20 gallons, especially considering a lot of places recommend 30 gallons for both clowns and 6 line wrasses, you can keep them in 20, but I think that many fish is pushing it, also did you mean a single 6 line wrasse and a single firefish? Or was that multiple? I guess it would depend on the CUC members, if you're just talking about snails/hermits, you could add a bunch of those if you wanted to, but they would die off if there wasn't enough of a food supply for them.

 

A 20 gallon long is a lot bigger then a 13.5 gallon. I'm going to have a clown pair, six line wrasse, and I have a YWG and pistol shrimp pair. I have 3 snails, 2 hermits, and 2 emeralds crabs. I'm not overstocked as a 20 long has lots of footprint and I will have good nutrient export.

The CUC you have listed - 2 banded trochus, 1 scarlet legged hermit, and 1 emerald are all good to go in as soon as your cycled. Eventually once the tank has matured and you get detritus you'll want to add a detritus eater like nassarius snails or a fighting conch.

Btw I'm planning on getting a 20 gallon but a cube so I was wondering if a cube can keep less fish due to its footprint
Thanks for the reply

I would definitely not put a clown pair, 6 line wrasses, and firefish into 20 gallons, especially considering a lot of places recommend 30 gallons for both clowns and 6 line wrasses, you can keep them in 20, but I think that many fish is pushing it, also did you mean a single 6 line wrasse and a single firefish? Or was that multiple? I guess it would depend on the CUC members, if you're just talking about snails/hermits, you could add a bunch of those if you wanted to, but they would die off if there wasn't enough of a food supply for them.

I was talking about like 2 clowns, a firefish, yellow watchman goby and a six line wrasse but it doesn't matter as I don't like my tank being heavily stocked I prefer how it looks and not to be looking around for fish lol - I think that my current setup plan is quite good for me as I have always wanted clowns ( I know they are quite common but the way they swim just makes me love them!) and also a yellow clown goby ever since I went to Germany and saw their marine tank displays.
Thanks a lot

Also I just got done editing my word document on the things that I will need I would really appreciate it if you guys were to skI'm through it and see if I'm missing anything. I'm not sure how to link it so ill just paste the words here:
· An ideal 20 gallon tank from Germany

· Marine salt any brand

· 20 lbs Caribsea live sand

· 20 lbs Dry rock

· 2 x Jebao sw2 powerhead

· 100W heater

· Finerfilters 4 stage RO/DI system

· Hydrometer/ refractometer

· Tank hood – inserts for feeding

· HikarI marine pellets

· 2 ocellaris clownfish

· 1 yellow clown goby

· 2 banded trochus

· Any other suitable fish later on

· 1 emerald crab

· Scarlet legged hermit

· 3, 5 gallon buckets (dirty water, salt mixing, acclimating/ emergencies.)

· Python vacuum

· Tank thermometer

· High power lighting If I choose to get corals

· API test kit

· Seachem prime

· Seachem stability

· Return pump (if you get a AIO tank and should be included)

· 6 jugs for rodI water storage – top off and water change

· Chemipure blue
Thanks a lot guys really appreciated!

 

Yes, cubes can prevent you from keeping certain fish, for example, I went with a Red Sea tank as opposed to a cube because I was interested in tangs, which really don't do great in cubes. You just need to do some research on what you'd like to keep, but a clown pair, gobies, and CUC will do fine in the 20 cube, and I think it sounds like a great beginner stock!

 

Yes, cubes can prevent you from keeping certain fish, for example, I went with a Red Sea tank as opposed to a cube because I was interested in tangs, which really don't do great in cubes. You just need to do some research on what you'd like to keep, but a clown pair, gobies, and CUC will do fine in the 20 cube, and I think it sounds like a great beginner stock!

Thanks a lot this is awesome! last time I wanted to setup a tank I planned out a wrong tank size and ran into many things I didn't know as I was just watching videos lol. I am really happy that this is all coming together how I planned with the perfect stocking! Honestly I couldn't have done it without you guys

 

I think your supply list looks good. I would definitely get the refractometer, far more accurate than hydrometers. Make sure to get a digital thermometer, that will be most accurate as well, and I would actually get a Red Sea or salifert test kit instead of the API one.

Edit: I think a 20 cube will work out very nicely for you, and it looks like you know what you're doing. I'm thinking this tank is going to be very successful for you!

 

I will keep you guys updated however it won't be soon! We are going to Germany in mid February by car and I am hoping to buy my tank there. So now I'm just watching videos about marine setups all day long
Thanks a lot

 

Red Sea Pro is what grantm91 swears by, I believe Nart uses Fritz? I use Instant Ocean reef crystals

I would not go with a hood. Just DIY a screen lid or order a kit. cheaper, and far better. A hood will limit gaseous exchange which is extremely important.

Get a refractometer. The cheap $20 ones on Amazon work just fine. You can use Ro/DI water to calibrate.

For the heater I'd highly highly highly recommend the Cobalt Neotherm 100 watt. I have it and LOVE it. Unobtrusive, no annoying calibration, always stays right on set temp.

Not the API test kit. If you're going to be spending the $30 $40 for the API master sw test kit get a salifert or red sea. I use the salifert and love them. Main ones are going to be nitrate, phosphate, and alk.

For a cube I know Nart will recommend the AI Prime lights. I would recommend them as well. Super good quality and with it you can grow any coral you want

Don't need seachem Prime or Stability. If anything I'd get something like Pods instead.

I'd get a quality digital as well. Don't get a cheap one. I got like a $3 one and after a month it was showing 20 degrees off. I got a nice one and never regretted it

 

I think your supply list looks good. I would definitely get the refractometer, far more accurate than hydrometers. Make sure to get a digital thermometer, that will be most accurate as well, and I would actually get a Red Sea or salifert test kit instead of the API one.

Edit: I think a 20 cube will work out very nicely for you, and it looks like you know what you're doing. I'm thinking this tank is going to be very successful for you!

Awesome! Thanks for the advice. Ive been waiting for this opportunity for a very long time so I want to make sure I do it right and don't mess it up
Thanks a lot!

Red Sea Pro is what grantm91 swears by, I believe Nart uses Fritz? I use Instant Ocean reef crystals

I would not go with a hood. Just DIY a screen lid or order a kit. cheaper, and far better. A hood will limit gaseous exchange which is extremely important.

Get a refractometer. The cheap $20 ones on Amazon work just fine. You can use Ro/DI water to calibrate.

For the heater I'd highly highly highly recommend the Cobalt Neotherm 100 watt. I have it and LOVE it. Unobtrusive, no annoying calibration, always stays right on set temp.

Not the API test kit. If you're going to be spending the $30 $40 for the API master sw test kit get a salifert or red sea. I use the salifert and love them. Main ones are going to be nitrate, phosphate, and alk.

For a cube I know Nart will recommend the AI Prime lights. I would recommend them as well. Super good quality and with it you can grow any coral you want

Don't need seachem Prime or Stability. If anything I'd get something like Pods instead.

I'd get a quality digital as well. Don't get a cheap one. I got like a $3 one and after a month it was showing 20 degrees off. I got a nice one and never regretted it

Thanks for the advice I really appreciate it. Can't wait till I get this tank up and running What should I use to cycle my tank? (preferably a bottled source rather than fish food as it will be a pain making sure all the pellets are out of the water)
Thanks a lot

 

I cycled mine with live rock. You could use a bottled bacteria, but most people will recommend just dosing pure ammonia.

 

You can pick up pure ammonia from a local hardware store. Make sure it doesn't have any surfectants or anything, just pure ammonia. If you shake it and it bubbles and th ebubble stay don't get it. If you can't find that, you can get a bottle of Dr. Tims pure ammonia off of amazon for a few dollars. Its what I used. And then there's bacteria supplements but sometimes those work and sometimes they don't. If you want a quick cycle get a pound or two of Live cured cycled rock from your LFS

 

Awesome! thanks for the advice really appreciated

 

Yeah, I'd get some live rock to seed the dry rock with, just be sure to check for pests, but if you're only bringing in a pound or two, it likely won't be a huge issue. Some people like to take live rock and dip it in water with a really high specific gravity, this can cause critters to crawl out of the rock.

 

I used to use Fritz RPM salt. I now use Tropic Marin Pro salt. Made from Germany from your country.

 

I used to use Fritz RPM salt. I now use Tropic Marin Pro salt. Made from Germany from your country.

Lol just to clarify I'm English and live in London but my family enjoys going there and other countries such as france and Switzerland by car. I am hoping to go there in February to get my tank as they have a wide range of tanks and good offers. I will probably buy my tank and a few other things there and bring it back by car.
Thanks

If I got my fish from an lfs would I have to quarantine them as I don't have any spare tanks apart from a 3 gallon that used to be for my betta. Also I keep watching these youtube videos and they change my mind as 2o gallon longs look much nicer than the few cube setups however, I am not completely sure on which to get.
Thanks

 

You don't *have* to quarantine, but it's highly recommended, although you will only have 3-4 fish, and in a smaller tank with smaller fish, I think it's less of an issue. You could use one of your 5 gallon buckets as a quarantine tank, I use buckets or trash cans for my quarantine tanks, cheap, and I can pull them out of the closet when I need them, just make sure you can move some rock or a filter of some sort over to have a cycle in the tank, and also of course heater, etc. as for cube Vs. 20 long, I think a 20 long does have more potential for stocking options, but not much more potential. If you just want the clowns and a goby, either will be fine, but just because of the footprint I might not put more than that in a cube, but I may put 1 more fish in a 20 long. If you only want the clown and goby, just go for whatever looks nicer to you, and whichever will fit better in the space where you wanna keep it. Also keep in mind that it'll be easier to light the 20 long, not that the cube will be difficult, but the 20 long isn't as tall.

 

I think then I will probably go for the cube as I like the idea of the integrated fiter as well as a chamber in the back to hide the heater and store carbon,etc... I don't really mind that I can't have another fish I was just wondering as I prefer my tank to be lightly stocked and not too crowded so that you can personally bond with the fish.
Thanks a lot

 

Yeah AIO systems are convenient, they're probably pretty nice on smaller tank, my tank that's about 70 gallons has an AIO system, it's nice but the tank is so tall that I have to get on a ladder to access it, and even then I can't quite get to the bottom of the chambers. You could also put a refugium in one of the back chambers if you'd like, and some AIO tanks even include skimmers. You could maybe get away with one more small fish in your tank, but I agree with keeping a lightly stocked tank, much easier to maintain, and less risk of stress/illness. You should start a build thread once you are able to get your tank, also I'm not sure if bulk reef supply or marine depot ship to the U.K. (I will check) but they have some very fairly priced stuff!

Edit: it looks like bulk reef supply only ships to the US and Canada, but I think marine depot ships internationally, hopefully someone can confirm that.

 

I will definitely start a thread as soon as I start this build. I am so excited right now. Thanks a lot I am very thankful for your help. For the equipment I will get a majority of my stuff from Germany when we go there on a road trip. They have some amazing marine shops and supplies

So I was looking around on their website with google translate open lol and it doesn't look that different from here but I'm told that not everything is on their website. Anyways I found some bare tanks that are made by them in Germany and a 90 liter tank was about 60 euros That's quite cheap for a tank (45 x 45 x 45) but I will still have to buy a filter as it doesn't come with anything and they say it can take up to 28 days. If any of you guys know any people that know of good places to buy tanks I would really appreciate if you could ask them.
Thanks a lot

 

60 euros is about $75, right? If that's a 90 liter cube tank, I'd say that's a fairly good price, even with nothing else included. If you're interested, you really don't *need* any filter, live rock is the filter, but I would recommend an aquaclear 70, they're higher in price for a HOB filter, but HOB filters really aren't expensive, and you can mod this filter into a refugium! Also skimmers, but considering this tank is just above 20 gallons, you probably won't need one if you're good about water changes, lots of people run skimmerless nanos, especially considering a good skimmer will set you back a couple hundred, maybe a little less for a nano one. I know marine depot (believe they ship to U.K.) has some nice tanks, I've seen some fairly inexpensive cube tanks there, but a lot of their stuff is the more expensive Red Sea and innovative marine. You could also buy a tank secondhand if you are considering one of the more expensive ones, I got my Red Sea max secondhand, by the time it was actually running it probably wasn't worth it, because I just replaced basically everything (T5 bulbs, pumps, etc) but it's always an option, and you can get things for really cheap, the tank itself was basically in perfect shape, as in like the glass box… everything else, including pumps, lighting, etc. was replaced, so now it's basically brand new haha, but hey, I only paid $500 (plus all the remodeling costs) for a tank that sells new for over $2,000, so after the repairs it wound up costing me a little over $1,000, so 50% isn't horrible. I also got my chiller used, guy had only used an $800 chiller for a month, and sold it to me for $250, was basically in brand new condition, so you can find some amazing deals, do you guys have Craigslist or anything similar in the U.K.? Also if you just want a 20 long, you could just buy a standard aqueon one too, I find their tanks to be sorta cheap though, and have had one leak, but I do use a 13 gallon one made by them and it's been holding up great for the past 2 years, and a 20 long will only cost you about $30. I would also see if you could find some local stores near you, so you can compare what they have and their prices to what Germany has and their prices.

 

I looked around marine depot and found a 20 gallon IM peninsula tank for 250 that's quite reasonable. would this be considered a long and would it have the potential for another fish? Just wondering it doesn't matter though. Not sure if they ship to uk. The main reason I'm against the tank from Germany is that it takes up to 28 days to produce and I only have a week off.
Thanks

Update:
I searched around on amazon and found this:
It is a 20 gallon tank for 160 and 28 pounds for shipping from Denmark there are a few reviews with verified purchase too this seems great as I think it is a 20 gallon AIO

 

A 20 long is 76 x 33 x 33 cm and that tank appears to be 60 x 38 x 33, so it's about the same as a 20 long. I think it looks like a pretty nice deal, AIO, includes lighting (possibly good for a reef tank?) not so big that maintenance is a pain, but also big enough to have very stable water parameters… good choice! And AIO, so all your filtration is covered (aside from any modifications you'll have to make) and I've heard these tanks are pretty good quality, if you like it, I think it's a really good tank! I think you may be okay with one more small fish in a 20 long, but I would be cautious as some clownfish can be quite territorial, it's less of an issue with captive bred juveniles though.

 

That's awesome I'll most probably that as it seems like a great deal and shipping is not too bad. I won't really get another fish until my tank is stable anyways.
Thanks a lot

 

Awesome!! You should update here or make a build thread once you get the tank, I'd love to see it come together, and I'm sure some others who have been helping in this thread would love to as well! That's what I love about the saltwater side of this forum, everyone is so supportive, and helpful.

 

Yeah I know it really is awesome when it all comes together! couldn't have done it without you guys

 

Definitely starta build thread or just change the name and update! In that tnak you linked that's the same as a 20 long you could do a clown pair, Yellow Watchman GOby and pistol shrimp pair, and a firefish. Or, clown pair, royal gramma, and a goby or blenny

 

Yeah, I'd get some live rock to seed the dry rock with, just be sure to check for pests, but if you're only bringing in a pound or two, it likely won't be a huge issue. Some people like to take live rock and dip it in water with a really high specific gravity, this can cause critters to crawl out of the rock.

Agreed you need something with existing bacteria. If it were me and a 20 gallon, I would do 5lbs live rock and 15lbs dry rock just so that there is some active bacteria established on at least some of the rock.

If I got my fish from an lfs would I have to quarantine them as I don't have any spare tanks apart from a 3 gallon that used to be for my betta. Also I keep watching these youtube videos and they change my mind as 2o gallon longs look much nicer than the few cube setups however, I am not completely sure on which to get.
Thanks

If you are going to go with a 20 gallon, a 20 long is the best option as it gives you the length which many fish like to use to swim. Depth and width does matter to an extent but IMHO length is the most important as that is what marine fish use the most in captive environments. The other advantage is that if you do eventually want to add some corals a 20 long's shallower depth makes it so that it is easy for your corals to get the light that they need and it is much easier for you to reach in and make adjustments/clean to your tank (which believe me, you will definitely be doing). Take it from a guy who has to reach over 2 feet to the bottom of his tank that it isn't fun. As for stocking, as mentioned a six line wrasse often does not play well with others and firefish/dartfish are arguably the most cowardly fish in the aquarium trade (my purple firefish spent almost all his time hiding in a cave and my scissortail dartfish wasn't much better). I would NEVER put a 6 line wrasse with any dartfish for that reason as the dartfish are the first fish to get bullied in a tank.

 

Thanks for the advice I will start a thread as soon as I get my tank and Jesterrace's idea for the live rock is actually really clever and is what I will most probably do. As for stocking like I mentioned before I will probably go for a clown pair and a yellow clown goby with the CUC and for the tank I am thinking of getting this:
This is the only good tank I found here and it's like 28 pounds for shipping but it's worth it. I might still wait till Germany to pick up some sand and sea salt and some other equipment.
Thanks
Edit: just a query if I got a 10 gallon cube : IM fusion nano 10 could I still keep a clown pair and would it be a lot harder than a 20

 

If you went with the 10, you could keep a clown pair, but that is it. I personally like 20-30 gallons for clowns, but people are successful with keeping them in 10 gallons, so you would likely be fine. You will have to be very good about your upkeep and maintenance in a tank of only 10 gallons, but it's doable.