Beginner Breeding Question

Hey guys, as you can see I'm new to this forum and also to breeding Angelfish. But I was wondering if you guys can refer me to a nice detailed guide/forum post or anything that will help me get started.

Also, if you have any tips you guys have learned that just want to add on, id love if u commented below.. It would help me learn more.


Thank you guys!

 

Where are you at with your angelfish breeding project? Do you currently have a breeding pair? What do you have for tanks? What kind of research have you already done....or what do you already know so far? I don't want to repeat all sorts of things you may already know.

Is this something you plan to do as a hobby? or are you hoping to sell the babies? do you have extra tanks for the babies to grow out in? Have you ever hatched baby brine shrimp before?

Tell me a bit about what experience you do, or do not, have! thanks!!

 

Where are you at with your angelfish breeding project? Do you currently have a breeding pair? What do you have for tanks? What kind of research have you already done....or what do you already know so far? I don't want to repeat all sorts of things you may already know.

Is this something you plan to do as a hobby? or are you hoping to sell the babies? do you have extra tanks for the babies to grow out in? Have you ever hatched baby brine shrimp before?

Tell me a bit about what experience you do, or do not, have! thanks!!

Thank you for the quick response?

But I'm just barely diving in with a friend. We have 4 angels, we believe (and told) that its 2 male and 2 female. We have a 55 gal, aiming to put 10 angels in with 4 20gals to mate them in. We are trying to sell the babys. We have done some research but I am getting for different facts. example: pH should be around 6.6-6.8 but read other places a little above 7, or good temperature is 70 to low 80s but 82-86 is good for breeding. So I'm kind of lost and want to get some proven facts from others.

Also have a 10gal extra.. And never hatched a baby brine shrimp.

 

I'm confused...you already have 4 that you think are 2 males and 2 females...why do you want 10 more? Are you going for several pairs? How long are you hoping to keep 10 angels in a 55 and how big do you plan on them being?

You will need grow out tanks for all those babies you might get too. Something much bigger than 10-20 gallons!

 

I'm confused...you already have 4 that you think are 2 males and 2 females...why do you want 10 more? Are you going for several pairs? How long are you hoping to keep 10 angels in a 55 and how big do you plan on them being?

You will need grow out tanks for all those babies you might get too. Something much bigger than 10-20 gallons!

I mean they told us a 55 gall tank is good for about 10 of them, then that's where we would find pairs to split into 20 galls.

But idk if that's smart thing to do and if 20 galls are too small or so?

 

I mean they told us a 55 gall tank is good for about 10 of them, then that's where we would find pairs to split into 20 galls.

But idk if that's smart thing to do and if 20 galls are too small or so?

20 gallons is way too small for a permanent home for two angels. They can be kept in a 20 temporarily for spawning purposes, but it should not be a permanent home for them! How long would you hope to keep these angel pairs spawning in small tanks?

It is common for people to get maybe 6 juvenile angels and have them grow up together in a big tank and pair off. But they usually aren't searching for four pairs of angels..... I think 10 is a pretty high number either way. Especially for a 55. And a 55 gallon tank would be at MAXIMUM with 4 adults angels. Preferably just 2 adult angels in a 55.

This might sound rude...or a bit extreme maybe, but what you are describing sounds like a "puppy mill" of the angelfish world. If you ended up with a breeding pair in each of your FOUR 20 gallon tanks....what were your plans for all the babies? How long will the adults be forced to live in cramped conditions? Will they end up spending their lives spawning in 20 gallon tanks? And you will be producing 100s of babies...where will you put them all? You have to keep the babies for a couple months before they are ready to be sold. ALSO, they aren't worth much money at all! So if you are hoping to make money, you will be let down. Unless you are serious about starting a business and shipping fish and all that. But if you are THAT serious...you need WAY more tanks than a 55 gallon and four 20 gallons.

Sorry if I sound blunt or rude. Angelfish are my passion....and I am concerned that you might be getting in way over your head....

 

20 gallons is way too small for a permanent home for two angels. They can be kept in a 20 temporarily for spawning purposes, but it should not be a permanent home for them! How long would you hope to keep these angel pairs spawning in small tanks?

It is common for people to get maybe 6 juvenile angels and have them grow up together in a big tank and pair off. But they usually aren't searching for four pairs of angels..... I think 10 is a pretty high number either way. Especially for a 55. And a 55 gallon tank would be at MAXIMUM with 4 adults angels. Preferably just 2 adult angels in a 55.

This might sound rude...or a bit extreme maybe, but what you are describing sounds like a "puppy mill" of the angelfish world. If you ended up with a breeding pair in each of your FOUR 20 gallon tanks....what were your plans for all the babies? How long will the adults be forced to live in cramped conditions? Will they end up spending their lives spawning in 20 gallon tanks? And you will be producing 100s of babies...where will you put them all? You have to keep the babies for a couple months before they are ready to be sold. ALSO, they aren't worth much money at all! So if you are hoping to make money, you will be let down. Unless you are serious about starting a business and shipping fish and all that. But if you are THAT serious...you need WAY more tanks than a 55 gallon and four 20 gallons.

Sorry if I sound blunt or rude. Angelfish are my passion....and I am concerned that you might be getting in way above your head....

20 gallons for them to spawn and wait till they hatch so we can then put em back into the 55 gall.

And was told by a fish store owner that 10 angels are good for a 55gal. And then the babies would be put in like a 40 gal together to grow. But they said get 10 so u can forsure get one or two pairs and start with those pairs.

And was told by store owners that theyd buy quarter sized angels for about $5. So that's what we were thinkif and not the only sourc e of income because its more of an interest than money

 

20 gallons for them to spawn and wait till they hatch so we can then put em back into the 55 gall.

And was told by a fish store owner that 10 angels are good for a 55gal. And then the babies would be put in like a 40 gal together to grow. But they said get 10 so u can forsure get one or two pairs and start with those pairs.

And was told by store owners that theyd buy quarter sized angels for about $5. So that's what we were thinkif and not the only sourc e of income because its more of an interest than money

Do you know that angels will lay eggs every 10 days or so? as soon as you take them out of their spawning tank and put them back in the 55 as you described, they will start laying eggs in there within 2 weeks. They don't stop spawning when you take them out of the spawning tank...And if you plan to have more than one breeding pair together, that is recipe for disaster. You can't put all 4 pairs back in the 55! So then what??!!

Angelfish are very aggressive with each other! Especially at spawning time. You will likely be facing many murders with what you are describing. :-(

You do what you want to do! My LFS stores only offer store credit for my angels and they are only worth a dollar or two in credit. It will take your angels like 3-4 months to get to quarter sized. How on earth do you think you will be able to house all of them?! especially if you have 4 pairs making babies....

If you want to breed angelfish and what you have available to yourself is a 55 gallon tank, four 20 gallon tanks and a 10 gallon tank, then you have a great set up for ONE breeding pair of angelfish. (two at the very most) The 55 can be used for the babies once they get to be about dime sized (about 6 weeks old), so they can finish growing to that quarter size you are needing them to be. The 20s can be used for babies for their first maybe 6 weeks of life. And the parents can be separated into individual 20 gallon tanks by themselves when they need a break from each other (because they can and will be very mean to each other)

And if I were you I would not start with 10 in a 55. I would start with 6 in the 55 and make sure they are quarter sized or smaller when you do that.

 

Yup. Keeping angels in the 55 until you have a pair or two you intend on keeping and then rehome the others

2 tanks per pair of angels to give them and yourself breaks from spawning.
1-2 fry tanks to ensure they are getting fed properly to start growing
1 large grow out tank for the fry to grow to proper size to be sold.

Very frequent water changes are required for the babies too.

Baby brine shrimp hatchery for them to feed is needed.

It's quite a lot of work and quite a lot of money that you may not see back for quite some time.

 

Do you know that angels will lay eggs every 10 days or so? as soon as you take them out of their spawning tank and put them back in the 55 as you described, they will start laying eggs in there within 2 weeks. They don't stop spawning when you take them out of the spawning tank...And if you plan to have more than one breeding pair together, that is recipe for disaster. You can't put all 4 pairs back in the 55! So then what??!!

Angelfish are very aggressive with each other! Especially at spawning time. You will likely be facing many murders with what you are describing. :-(

You do what you want to do! My LFS stores only offer store credit for my angels and they are only worth a dollar or two in credit. It will take your angels like 3-4 months to get to quarter sized. How on earth do you think you will be able to house all of them?! especially if you have 4 pairs making babies....

If you want to breed angelfish and what you have available to yourself is a 55 gallon tank, four 20 gallon tanks and a 10 gallon tank, then you have a great set up for ONE breeding pair of angelfish. (two at the very most) The 55 can be used for the babies once they get to be about dime sized (about 6 weeks old), so they can finish growing to that quarter size you are needing them to be. The 20s can be used for babies for their first maybe 6 weeks of life. And the parents can be separated into individual 20 gallon tanks by themselves when they need a break from each other (because they can and will be very mean to each other)

And if I were you I would not start with 10 in a 55. I would start with 6 in the 55 and make sure they are quarter sized or smaller when you do that.

Yes I know they start to lay more around a week after. So you don't recommend to keep multiple pairs when they start breeding in a 55? Only for them to grow a little then pair up and Then separate the pairs in 20 gals? 55 for the babies as u said. And u said to sometimes separate a pair cuz they get agressive? 1 in each 20?

Btw thanks for ur time cuz I'm getting more info about em from u

Yup. Keeping angels in the 55 until you have a pair or two you intend on keeping and then rehome the others

2 tanks per pair of angels to give them and yourself breaks from spawning.
1-2 fry tanks to ensure they are getting fed properly to start growing
1 large grow out tank for the fry to grow to proper size to be sold.

Very frequent water changes are required for the babies too.

Baby brine shrimp hatchery for them to feed is needed.

It's quite a lot of work and quite a lot of money that you may not see back for quite some time.

How many would u say to start off in a 55? And two tanks of 20? (1 for mating and 1 for seperating them?)
And what size for fry? (If 100 of them)
And what size for grow out if I have lets say 500 of em?

 

Yes I know they start to lay more around a week after. So you don't recommend to keep multiple pairs when they start breeding in a 55? Only for them to grow a little then pair up and Then separate the pairs in 20 gals? 55 for the babies as u said. And u said to sometimes separate a pair cuz they get agressive? 1 in each 20?

Btw thanks for ur time cuz I'm getting more info about em from u

I'm happy to help! I love angelfish and have grown very obsessed with breeding them myself. But I have always only had one pair at a time and raised very small spawns because I just don't have space for hundreds of babies. Right now I'm working on getting some pairs myself with a handful of juveniles.

But it's a lot of work raising angelfish babies! and it requires a lot of space. My best suggestion for you based on what you have available is to do just one breeding pair. Two at the most. Right now start out with a handful of juveniles that are quarter size or smaller, and enjoy those for several months until they start to pair up and then you can decide what to do from there. And I would be more than happy to assist you when that time comes because I love this stuff

Yup. Keeping angels in the 55 until you have a pair or two you intend on keeping and then rehome the others

2 tanks per pair of angels to give them and yourself breaks from spawning.
1-2 fry tanks to ensure they are getting fed properly to start growing
1 large grow out tank for the fry to grow to proper size to be sold.

Very frequent water changes are required for the babies too.

Baby brine shrimp hatchery for them to feed is needed.

It's quite a lot of work and quite a lot of money that you may not see back for quite some time.

This pretty much sums it up!!!! I'm not good at being short and sweet

 

How many would u say to start off in a 55? And two tanks of 20? (1 for mating and 1 for seperating them?)
And what size for fry? (If 100 of them)
And what size for grow out if I have lets say 500 of em?

I forgot the breeding tank. Two individual 20 gal for keeping them outside of breeding or a 29 or similar tall tank for one (aka spawning tank) and a second 20 tall for the split up. Remove the fry to the fry tank and separate as needed for breaks. No long term stays together.

As for the number of fry in a grow out, I dunno. Never bred fish before, so others may need to fill you in, sorry.

And lots and lots of plants and other vertical surfaces to spawn on.

 

I forgot the breeding tank. Two individual 20 gal for keeping them outside of breeding or a 29 or similar tall tank for one (aka spawning tank) and a second 20 tall for the split up. Remove the fry to the fry tank and separate as needed for breaks. No long term stays together.

As for the number of fry in a grow out, I dunno. Never bred fish before, so others may need to fill you in, sorry.

And lots and lots of plants and other vertical surfaces to spawn on.

Kinda confused in the beginning.. Are u saying two 20 gals to split up and a 29 for spawning? Can I use a 20 for spawning with a pair? (All tanks are tall)

I'm happy to help! I love angelfish and have grown very obsessed with breeding them myself. But I have always only had one pair at a time and raised very small spawns because I just don't have space for hundreds of babies. Right now I'm working on getting some pairs myself with a handful of juveniles.

But it's a lot of work raising angelfish babies! and it requires a lot of space. My best suggestion for you based on what you have available is to do just one breeding pair. Two at the most. Right now start out with a handful of juveniles that are quarter size or smaller, and enjoy those for several months until they start to pair up and then you can decide what to do from there. And I would be more than happy to assist you when that time comes because I love this stuff

If I were to get a couple that are a lil bigger than a quarter.. How long would the process take u reckon? Or is it smarter to get them adult sized so it speeds it up or will they not attract each other?

 

Kinda confused in the beginning.. Are u saying two 20 gals to split up and a 29 for spawning? Can I use a 20 for spawning with a pair? (All tanks are tall)

29 tall for one that would act as a spawn tank. It gives each a little more room when in for spawning. Then a second 20 tall for the other angel.

Two 20 tall could work too. Just thinking of the pairs coexisting better in a larger space.

Sorry to confuse

 

And what size for grow out if I have lets say 500 of em?

Well I don't know....picture 500 dime sized angels swimming around! I would imagine you would need a lot!

For reference...I had 24 dime sized angels in a 46 gallon and they were extremely cramped!!

 

I think, if I remember correctly, there's a site that sells angels that has a 3000 gallon setup, in total, for breeding them. His is much more likely to be a larger scale, but it's just a reference to compare.

I'd imagine that breeding can be like a part or full time job on top of your normal responsibilities

 

Do u know if the type/color of the angelfish has a factor on the breeding process or difficulty? Cuz stores near me only tend to have the same types nothing special

 

Do u know if the type/color of the angelfish has a factor on the breeding process or difficulty? Cuz stores near me only tend to have the same types nothing special

Ah, genetics. It does. Different fin types and colors have different alleles. There's passive and dominant alleles, each having different percentages of showing up based on the traits of the adults.

It's kind of a convoluted mess for me to try and explain. Wish I knew more more about the angel breeding so I could give a better example.

 

While the genes responsible for color pattern may affect breeding, it's more likely that certain varieties are caused by dominant alleles (versus recessive) and so are more common and cheaper to obtain (and therefore breed and give to stores to sell).

 

While the genes responsible for color pattern may affect breeding, it's more likely that certain varieties are caused by dominant alleles (versus recessive) and so are more common and cheaper to obtain (and therefore breed and give to stores to sell).

Recessive! That's the word, lol. I just woke up, thanks for jogging that. I never paid attention to biology in school.

There's plenty of colors and a couple fin variations, each having a different marker. I would think an Internet search for the gene markers would be able to give you an idea on what's going to be the most common and easiest and the rarest and hardest to breed into. It will take multiple generations to get exactly what you're trying to get and a set of initial parents that have these qualities.

 

Do u know if the type/color of the angelfish has a factor on the breeding process or difficulty? Cuz stores near me only tend to have the same types nothing special

The type or color would not have any effect on the breeding process itself or the level of difficulty.

Unless you are dealing with altum angels which from what I understand can be harder to breed but they're also very rare and expensive. But their breeding process is exactly the same

It will take multiple generations to get exactly what you're trying to get and a set of initial parents that have these qualities.

And that's the thing... so many of the angelfish at the stores have been crossbred with other color morphs you really have no idea what kind of genetics they might be carrying recessively!

 

And that's the thing... so many of the angelfish at the stores have been crossbred with other color morphs you really have no idea what kind of genetics they might be carrying recessively!

Best to get what you're looking to breed into from a breeder then? Best chances of getting the genes you're looking for if both show actively show the traits you're looking for much much sooner.

 

Do u guys have any guides or tips/forum posts for perfect water in a 55 so I can throw juvenilles ?

 

Do u guys have any guides or tips/forum posts for perfect water in a 55 so I can throw juvenilles ?

I wouldn't throw fish around, lol. Are you asking the best water parameters for juvenile angels to live in? I've seen soft water preferred, but as long as the pH is stable and the tank is cycled, you shouldn't run into issues.

The key is keeping all parameters the same across the tanks. KH, GH, pH, and cycled parameters should all be similar.