BAD Tap Water NH3!!!

Let me cut to the chase and leave the long story out because this is an emergency - my tap water has an ammonia reading of 2.0 ppm straight from the tap. How am I supposed to do a water change? We have a water softener, but that's bad to use right? We have bottled water, but that's bad too...

Should I use AmQuel at every water change?

Thanks!
Jessica

 

hey hows it going wat do u need help with I'm james a experert with fish and every thing to do with fish

 

I don't know how to handle the bad tap water. I'm pooring in 2.0 ppm ammonia during a water change. I've already lost 4 of my angelfish and my cory cat. I have one angelfish and a platy hanging on.

Thanks!

 

I'm sorry about ur other fish :'( :'( :'( :'(

but are u just putting tap water in the tank??? ??? ???
if u are DONT do that cos that kills the fish its not good for them

kk


cheers james

 

What about getting one of those water filters that plug in directly to the faucet? I use the PUR filter for my saltwater tank water changes and replace evaporated water with it. Use the amquel until you find out if a filter will fix the prob.

http://www.purwaterfilter.com/

 

wat mike said I think would work jess try that ur fish might do a lot better wtih wat mark said

 

are u just putting tap water in the tank??? ??? ???

HI James,

I use the Python (), they say that you can use water straight from your tap if you use a dechlorinating agent. Is this not true?

If so, how will I remove the ammonia from my tap water by letting it sit - the way I would to let the chlorine evaporate?

Thanks so much,
Jessica

And losing the fish was terrible! We went to bed and they were all happy and healthy, we woke up and they were all dead.  :-[

 

Oh Mike! I hadn't thought of that!!! What a great idea!

What about getting one of those water filters that plug in directly to the faucet? http://www.purwaterfilter.com/

Thanks so much,
I'll pick one up tomorrow!!!
Jessica

 

If we just did a water change 2 hours ago - should I add some AmQuel in to lower the Nitrite and Ammonia? Or just let it be over night? Also, does Amquel do anything to biological filtration?

 

my tap water is so full of ammonia and chlorine I can smell it, smells like your public swimming pool lol what I use is a product called ammolock, it dechlorinates your water as well as turns ammonia into a different form that does not harm fish

 

The main culprit here sounds like chloramine which is composed of ammonia and chlorine.  Maybe your water company just puts in a little more than usual???  While chlorine will evaporate from the water after a few days I don't believe that chloramine will evaporate.

I think the ammo lock and amquel essentially do the same thing - detoxify ammonia.  I would continue to use the amquel with your water changes until you can get a filter and see if the filter removes the ammonia (or chloramine) from the tap water.  As far as the cycle goes, amquel could potentially slow the cycle since ammonia is what gets the cycle started and keeps it going, albeit in smaller amounts than 2 ppm.

I use the python as well on my freshwater tanks and just add the proper amount of dechlorinator directly into the stream of replacement water coming out of the python.  I've had no ill effects from doing this but would urge caution if you are using a python vacuum in a breeding tank or if you have more sensitive fish species.  For my saltwater tanks, I only use the python to remove water and then I use aged saltwater (in 5 gallon buckets) to replenish the water I've removed with the python.  I do love the python by the way.

Also, since you already have fish and if your tank isn't cycled, you are in for an uphill battle.  Use your test kits frequently and plan on frequent water changes for many weeks until the cycle has started detoxifying the ammonia and nitrites on it's own.  That is, once you can reduce the amount of ammonia coming out of the tap.   Good luck and keep us posted.

 

UPDATE - Re: BAD Tap Water NH3!!!

HI Folks!

I just wanted to thank every one for all their help and to let you know the details of how it turned out.

We bought a PUR filter, but that only helped the ammonia level a little bit, so we had to use the ammolock anyway.

I started thinking back to what went wrong - all of my biological filtration must have gotten zapped when we added some new fish. While we were acclimating the new fish, the bag accidentally sank into the tank. I didn't think much of it at the time because the fish were coming from a reputable source, what I should have realized is that they were treated with ick medication when they were placed in the bag (standard practice for my LFS).

Anyway, I bought a third filter (another Fluval 304), replaced my bio wheels, and started doing daily water changes relying on Stress Zyme to kick start my biological filtration. It WORKED!!! We stopped feeding our fish completely, some days we had to do two water changes, but we didn't lose a fish. Within two weeks our tank and fish were happy and healthy. We even have an algae bloom just starting so things are very healthy for our beautiful fish.

Thanks again to all that helped. You all know how devastating it is when those water readings just aren't right.
Jessica ;D

 

OK - really need input from the experts here.
Quick history -

3/28 10 gal setup (HOB filter, gravel, plants, driftwood)
4/29 fishless cycle completed (stability and ammonia), replaced gravel with sand
2 days for cycle to level
5/1 added 4 endlers, 3 neocardinia shrimp, 1 nerite
5/3 found nerite belly up, sniff test (ok) flipped him over and moved to driftwood
5/8 performed 40% water change, dosed full volume Prime, lifted snail during cleaning and slime came out - he was long gone.
After water change noticed shrimp became much more active and one previously thought missing came out of hiding.

up until this point my daily water tests have been completely stable:
pH 8-8.2
Ammo 0ish (I say "ish" because I never get that canary yellow color)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-15
temp averages 77

5/11 (this morning) tested water - Ammo looked a bit more like maybe 0.1 or 0.15
I needed to run out so I dosed some Prime directly in filter as a just in case.
Everyone seemed fine.
This afternoon orange shrimp is in the corner, belly up and twitching hard. Soon after he's dead.

I called the LFS to talk to them about both the snail and the shrimp and he believes there is an issue with my water. I do have older pipes in the house and he is convinced there is probably some issue with my water source and that I should use RO water.

My question is does this sound like a pretty accurate assessment? Is there anything I can do immediately to help the tank? Is there anything else I should consider - or do to help the remaining 2 shrimp?
Thanks so much in advance for the help - RIP Pumpkin

 

Older pipes shouldn't be a major issue, because they have years if buildup in them. Matter of fact I have cast iron pipes and copper, and things are fine for me. Prime takes care of trace metals anyways.

As for using RO/DI water, that's up to you. Besides cost and having to lug water every WC, it lacks the minerals fish needs. Meaning your KH and GH are 0. So you will have to buy Replenish for the GH, and an alkaline buffer for the KH.

As for your shrimp dieing, it's hard to say. A number of factors can cause it. Shrimp I've gotten have died for no reason months after I brought them home. Shrimp are really sensitive to stress and water cleanliness. It could of had a bacterial infection or even a parasite. I've even read that 1 out of 10 shrimp will live longer then a year, so odds are stacked against shrimp.

Maybe someone with better knowledge can pin point it better for you.

 

I hope so! I guess that's my concern : are the two deaths related? Is it just life happening? I'll do RO if I have to but I'd rather avoid it if it's unnecessary. Especially if I'd have to start adding other things back in!

 

Your snail was dead in the tank for up to 5 days, so all the digestive enzymes and stuff leaked into your water along with it decomposing, so my guess would be that more then anything. But that's my opinion.

Oh, and to help now, a WC would be in order to bring up the water cleanliness, with a full dose if prime. Like 50% WC.

 

Oh geez you think the snail tainted the water? Yuck! I'm so mad because a few days before I took him out to check for smell and there was nothing. The dead shrimp was hanging out on the driftwood after I removed the snail. Omg could that have poisoned him?

 

You only cycled the tank for 2 days?

 

Not really poisoned him, but they are sensitive to water cleanliness. I've found the cause of a few of mine because a frozen bloodworm was left behind when I did my weekly vacuum, and that alone polluted the water enough that I lost one. BUT......I've read others not having this problem of their shrimp being ultra sensitive. Sounds like the one that passed was, while the other two have a higher immune to it. You can never tell though if they are or not yet. That's why I'm recommending a water change to hopefully by pass the effects.

 

You only cycled the tank for 2 days?

Cycling the tank took about a month. At the end I decided to change the substrate to sand. That caused a little fluctuation in my nitrites so I waited 2 more days for it to settle back to 0,0,10

 

Cycling the tank took about a month. At the end I decided to change the substrate to sand. That caused a little fluctuation in my nitrites so I waited 2 more days for it to settle back to 0,0,10

so your nitrates are at 10? you are confusing me lol. it takes 30-60 days for a tank to cycle. you can either do a fishless cycle or fish cycle, but you are doing a fishless cycle if I remember correctly. the tank is a 10 gallon right? what do you have in there and what do you feed them?

 

Not really poisoned him, but they are sensitive to water cleanliness. I've found the cause of a few of mine because a frozen bloodworm was left behind when I did my weekly vacuum, and that alone polluted the water enough that I lost one. BUT......I've read others not having this problem of their shrimp being ultra sensitive. Sounds like the one that passed was, while the other two have a higher immune to it. You can never tell though if they are or not yet. That's why I'm recommending a water change to hopefully by pass the effects.

UPDATE - more info to add to the mystery pile. When I originally setup the tank I threw a few of those "Betta bulbs" into it (the plant bulbs that are supposed to sprout) and they kind of looked like they started to get roots but nothing ever happened.
I just flipped one over and saw it is moldy!!! YIKES!
I pulled all 3 out - wondering if that could have caused issues?
again - tank tested well this morning.

so your nitrates are at 10? you are confusing me lol. it takes 30-60 days for a tank to cycle. you can either do a fishless cycle or fish cycle, but you are doing a fishless cycle if I remember correctly. the tank is a 10 gallon right? what do you have in there and what do you feed them?

The history is at the top of the thread.
It is a 10 gal, I did a fishless cycle, it took a little over a month. At the end I switched out the substrate which caused a sort of mini-cycle, I waited a few more days for that to correct itself BEFORE I added any living creatures.
11 days ago I added 4 endless, 3 shrimp and 1 nerite.
So far only feeding fish flakes.
Endless seem very happy, have gotten bigger already and colors have really come out.

hit post to soon!

Current theories include tainted tap water, tainted tank from rotting snail, tainted tank from betta bulbs, and possible molt fail (gh/kh issues?)
I am at a loss. So far other shrimp are fine.

 

so your nitrates are at 10? you are confusing me lol. it takes 30-60 days for a tank to cycle. you can either do a fishless cycle or fish cycle, but you are doing a fishless cycle if I remember correctly. the tank is a 10 gallon right? what do you have in there and what do you feed them?

Per the initial post
OP did a fishless cycle end of March to end of April and then added shrimp/fish beginning of May.

Edit: How did you acclimate the shrimp/snail to the tank? How were they acting in the store? Do you happen to know the pH of the store water?

 

oh and one final theory that it's all just coincidence and bad luck

Per the initial post
OP did a fishless cycle end of March to end of April and then added shrimp/fish beginning of May.

Edit: How did you acclimate the shrimp/snail to the tank? How were they acting in the store? Do you happen to know the pH of the store water?

I don't know the pH of the store water.. I can find out tomorrow.
I floated all 3 bags in the tank and added about 1/4 cup of water every 15 minutes. Repeated that 4 times. The total process took about 1 hour and 20 minutes.

The snail was on the side of the tank, he was very active when he got in, cleaned off a rock and then crossed the tank to climb to the top of a thermometer where he spent the night. The next day he started his way down and later I found him belly up. I flipped him over and he never moved again. Did the sniff test a few days later and there was no smell, I put him back in but he never moved again.

The shrimp all seem fine - they come and go and I would say the orange one was the most outgoing but I didn't notice anything weird. I have found 2 shrimp shells this week - not sure who's they were.

 

I'd double check with the store keeper to see, especially since he is suggesting that you use RO water. It's at least another possibility. I know my LFS that I prefer uses RO water, which means they are running about a 6.8 pH in their tanks. If you're in a similar situation, it may mean that you need a more gradual acclimation period for them. I ran mine for about 2 hours for my RCS because they were going from 6.8-7.8. I would probably have gone a bit longer on it, but the shrimp were getting impatient and trying to climb out of the bag, lol.

If the snail was upside down for a while, it's also possible that he got too stressed out from trying to turn over or that the fish saw him as an easy target and took advantage of him being exposed.

 

You know the pH of your tap water straight out of the tap?

 

Haven't tested in a few weeks but it was 7.2 last I checked.

 

Ph is 7.2 in tap and 8 in tank?

 

UPDATE - more info to add to the mystery pile. When I originally setup the tank I threw a few of those "Betta bulbs" into it (the plant bulbs that are supposed to sprout) and they kind of looked like they started to get roots but nothing ever happened.
I just flipped one over and saw it is moldy!!! YIKES!
I pulled all 3 out - wondering if that could have caused issues?
again - tank tested well this morning.

Sounds like you found the original culprit possibly for the snail and it snowballed from there. I've never had any luck with those bulbs so I can't help you there. Sorry.

So I'm thinking about what caused the snail to die, and I can only come up with 3 theories. Stressed, diseases and all ready on the way out, or not enough food. Since your tank was only up and running for a few weeks, there might not of been enough food for the snail.

Now I have a suggestion for your shrimp. I'm sure you got them as a clean up crew, but they need a calcium rich diet. So my suggestion is, when you feed your fish, feed them on one side of your tank, and drop 1 pellet per shrimp (if they are really small pellets) on the other and make sure each shrimp gets one. That way you know they are getting what they need. If you find any pellets left after 20 minutes, use a turkey baster and syphon it out.

Hoped I helped.

 

Ph is 7.2 in tap and 8 in tank?

Historically yes. But I haven't checked the tap in quite a few weeks. I'll retest today.

Sounds like you found the original culprit possibly for the snail and it snowballed from there. I've never had any luck with those bulbs so I can't help you there. Sorry.

So I'm thinking about what caused the snail to die, and I can only come up with 3 theories. Stressed, diseases and all ready on the way out, or not enough food. Since your tank was only up and running for a few weeks, there might not of been enough food for the snail.

Now I have a suggestion for your shrimp. I'm sure you got them as a clean up crew, but they need a calcium rich diet. So my suggestion is, when you feed your fish, feed them on one side of your tank, and drop 1 pellet per shrimp (if they are really small pellets) on the other and make sure each shrimp gets one. That way you know they are getting what they need. If you find any pellets left after 20 minutes, use a turkey baster and syphon it out.

Hoped I helped.

Thank you for the suggestions! There was a bit of algae in the tank so I don't think the snail would have starved that quickly but no idea.
I like the shrimp pellet plan. I don't have any - do you have a brand recommendation?
My only problem with that plan is I am going away on Sunday for 6 nights. So I can feed them that way until then and resume it next Saturday but in between its a bit much to ask of my neighbor who will be feeding the fish.
Ugh I was really hoping everything would be stable by now.
Planning s good sized water change later today.

 

Add cuttlebone to the tank if it is a calcium problem. They can graze it off.

 

Thank you for the suggestions! There was a bit of algae in the tank so I don't think the snail would have starved that quickly but no idea.
I like the shrimp pellet plan. I don't have any - do you have a brand recommendation?
My only problem with that plan is I am going away on Sunday for 6 nights. So I can feed them that way until then and resume it next Saturday but in between its a bit much to ask of my neighbor who will be feeding the fish.
Ugh I was really hoping everything would be stable by now.
Planning s good sized water change later today.

I don't have a specific brand, so no help here. All my shrimp passed on and I gave up on them.

As for feeding them, I have a suggestion that you can pass along to the neighbor that's going to feed your fish for you, and a great chance for you to train your shrimp to go to one spot for food. Use a straw to target feed them. Basically use any kind of straw and dunk it in the tank while holding it......Say at the driftwood where they hang the most. Then drop the pellets in the straw and they will sink down to the spot you want them. Also will help you locate any uneaten pellets and you can remove them easily instead of having to go hunting for them. First few time you do this, they will run away, but after awhile, when they see the straw, then will come to that location.

 

That would be doable but what about retrieving the uneaten pellets (if any remains?)

And where can I buy cuttlebone? Is that an Internet only type thing?

I do have an almond leaf in there but the shrimp never go near it.

 

To retrieve the pellets, just use a turkey baster (new or never been used one please)

Cuttle bones are available in the bird sections in pet shops and box stores. Just take off the metal clip, and you can always cut it in half or quarters. Will also help your KH.

Not sure about the almond leaf and why they are avoiding it.

 

Ok the turkey baster plan is a bit much to ask of them. I am going to go vacuum like crazy and do a water change. I'll do another on Saturday.
I just had another thought about toxicity in the water... The reason I switched the substrate was because the gravel I had turned out to be painted and it was coming off after only 4 weeks! It was the main brand from PetSmart. I am wishing now that I had just dumped ALL the water out when I switched to sand. I'm wondering if there is something still present from that affecting the inverts?

 

Cuttlebone is cheap, maybe a few dollars, and as mentioned, will be in the bird section. It is possible, if there was still something left from the paint, that it could be effecting them. How long ago did you switch to sand, and do you stir it up regularly with the tank cleaning?

 

I switched to sand on 4/29, added fish and shrimp on 5/1
I lost the blue shrimp today.
I will pick up cuttlebone and shrimp pellets tomorrow (there's only one guy left now) and hope for the best till I get back from vacation.
I am about to do a water change. Numbers are great but there is a bit of uneaten food I want to vaccum.






Tonight's water test:
Tap 7.8
Tank 8.2
Ammo 0.1
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10

 

Sorry, forgot that it had been done so recently. Was going to mention possible gas pockets in the sand, but way too soon to see anything like that I would think. I'm sorry for your little guy. Hopefully the cuttlebone and pellets will help out.

 

Is there anything else I should get to feed the shrimp? Would algae wafers be better? I guess I'm wondering which would be worse if left partially uneaten.

 

Get snowflake food! You can leave it in the tank, because it doesn't break down into nitrates. No need to remove any excess! I feed my shrimp mostly on snowflake food and bacterae to avoid this problem, with occasional algae pellets.