bacteria question - where does bacteria live?

I have a question about the bacteria in my 18 gallon tank. It has a filter with a sponge and active carbon but where are the bacteria?

I know they are there because I have nitrate in my tank.


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They are on all the surfaces but they are concentrated in the sponge.

 

They are on all the surfaces but they are concentrated in the sponge.

So what does that mean when cleaning th sponge? I always find green go so I rub it of with a spong I only use for the aquarium.

Am I actually washing of bacteria colonies?

 

As sarcasm said most are in the sponge.

So what does that mean when cleaning th sponge? I always find green go so I rub it of with a spong I only use for the aquarium.

Am I actually washing of bacteria colonies?


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Just rinse your sponge in old tank water and swish it around in said water if its gunky.

 

Just rinse your sponge in old tank water and swish it around in said water if its gunky.

Okay I have one more question. I'm using sera bio nitrivec (bacteria) for 5 weeks now. Can I stop, or should I keep adding it?


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The goo is algae which can be washed off in old tank water.
I have a 5 gallon bucket that I draw my water changes into, then I grab the sponge and squeeze it a couple times in the water bucket. Replace it and repeat next week. I like the double head sponges better than the singles as I can alternate the sponge each week. Either way your cycle will hold as long as you don't wash in hot or chlorinated water.

 

Okay I have one more question. I'm using sera bio nitrivec (bacteria) for 5 weeks now. Can I stop, or should I keep adding it?


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If you filter is gunky and your ammonia is 0 your tank is cycled and you should save the rest of the Bacteria for another tank.

 

Mostly in the gravel

 

Mostly in the gravel

No, it's mostly in the filter media.

 

No, it's mostly in the filter media.

So these bacteria don't float around? So when I do water changes my bacteria won't get harmed?

 

No, if anything water changes will help bacteria.

 

Yes there are free floating bacteria, but they aren't processing ammonia in this stage. They have to attach to a surface before they start eating ammonia. Loosing this small amount of bacteria doesn't hurt your cycle.

 

So these bacteria don't float around? So when I do water changes my bacteria won't get harmed?

No, they (the autotrophs) don't float around. There's two types of bacteria in our tanks: Heterotrophic bacteria and Autotrophic bacteria. Heterotrophic bacteria is the type that causes bacterial blooms, and it floats around. The good type of bacteria that we want is autotrophic, and it lives in our filters.
No, they won't get harmed when you do water changes.

 

Hello, your bacterial colonies mostly responsible for the processing ammonia and nitrate will establish themselves in your filters media, all of it, this is where they are exposed to the most chemicals to oxidize.

The sludge and mulm on your filter media is mostly decomposing organics, the bacteria is microscopic and attached itself to the surface of objects. No need to worry when you wring and squeeze your media in decorinated water to prolong its use.

 

No, they (the autotrophs) don't float around. There's two types of bacteria in our tanks: Heterotrophic bacteria and Autotrophic bacteria. Heterotrophic bacteria is the type that causes bacterial blooms, and it floats around. The good type of bacteria that we want is autotrophic, and it lives in our filters.
No, they won't get harmed when you do water changes.

How worried should I be about those heterotrophic bacteria? Should my ecuipment be sterile? And should I wash my hands (without soap of course) every time I have to put them in the water?


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How worried should I be about those heterotrophic bacteria? Should my ecuipment be sterile? And should I wash my hands (without soap of course) every time I have to put them in the water?


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I wouldn't be worried about them, they don't show up often past new tank syndrome.

 

Good bacteria, the kind that already exist in your gut. Nothing to worry about. Wash your hands after reaching in the tank, if you feel the need. Bad bacteria, what makes it cloudy white, smells foul and is unhealthy for your pet fish. Rotting fis food, gags.

 

Mostly in the gravel

I respectively disagree, unless you are running a UGF then most of you BB will stay in either the Biological media or the sponge......

BTW I would honestly take out the carbon, it eats up most of the excess nutrients your BB in the sponge could use...

 

Wash the sponge and clean it in cool water vigorously. Otherwise you will have too much bacteria which leads to disease as well like fungus/mould. Coarse Gravel is a very poor choice for substrate, but so many people use it.....so much nasty stuff that lives in there.

 

Wash the sponge and clean it in cool water vigorously. Otherwise you will have too much bacteria which leads to disease as well like fungus/mould. Coarse Gravel is a very poor choice for substrate, but so many people use it.....so much nasty stuff that lives in there.

I don't understand this. The bacteria we culture in our filter media poses no risk to the fish at all. It's actually what keeps the water clean for them. The only thing that should ever touch the filter wool or sponge or whatever you use for BB culture is old tank water, and that is not to remove bacteria, it's to remove the biofilm that grows on the media which can slow the filtration down and clog the pump. If left alone this can suffocate enough BB to cause a minicyle.

Heterotrophic bacteria can't harm you. Don't worry about them one bit Unless there's a bad smell in your tank or something like that, you only have good bacteria. Heterotrophs are responsible for consuming physical organic matter, whereas autotrophs process dissolved organic matter.

 

You are incorrect junebug. Nitrifying bacteria gotten out of hand, leads to nitrates and fungus. It has to have a balance.

 

Nitrates are a normal part of nitrification. I would expect to see them in most aquaria (heavily planted low tech tanks excluded). Since the BB culture only grows to the numbers required to handle the bioload of the fish, there is no way for it to "get out of hand". The size of your bacterial culture is directly proportionate to the bioload of the fish and your feeding schedule and this determines the amount of nitrate present in the aquarium.

I have also never read a single scientific article citing "too much nitrifying bacteria" as a cause of fungI in aquaria. Since they are not harmful bacteria and all they do is process ammonia and nitrite, I would be very surprised of any link between the BB and fungi, especially since fungI are so uncommon an infection in aquarium fish. If you know of any scientific articles linking the two, I'd be very interested to read them. In all my research I've never come across anything stating that. Not even a hobbyist claiming a link between the two before now.

 

Wash the sponge and clean it in cool water vigorously. Otherwise you will have too much bacteria which leads to disease as well like fungus/mould. Coarse Gravel is a very poor choice for substrate, but so many people use it.....so much nasty stuff that lives in there.

I have fine gravel and a good vacuüm pump so that wouldn't be a problem I hope.

I'd rather clean the sponge with the water I change from the aquarium using comd water means that I have to use dechlorinator on cold tap water.

Nitrates are a normal part of nitrification. I would expect to see them in most aquaria (heavily planted low tech tanks excluded). Since the BB culture only grows to the numbers required to handle the bioload of the fish, there is no way for it to "get out of hand". The size of your bacterial culture is directly proportionate to the bioload of the fish and your feeding schedule and this determines the amount of nitrate present in the aquarium.

I have also never read a single scientific article citing "too much nitrifying bacteria" as a cause of fungI in aquaria. Since they are not harmful bacteria and all they do is process ammonia and nitrite, I would be very surprised of any link between the BB and fungi, especially since fungI are so uncommon an infection in aquarium fish. If you know of any scientific articles linking the two, I'd be very interested to read them. In all my research I've never come across anything stating that. Not even a hobbyist claiming a link between the two before now.

Nitrate only get's toxic at 100 pmm (or mg/L) it's currently at 10 ppm so that wouldn't be a proble in a long shot. And for me nitrates are proof that my cycle is working.


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Nitrate only get's toxic at 100 pmm (or mg/L) it's currently at 10 ppm so that wouldn't be a proble in a long shot. And for me nitrates are proof that my cycle is working.


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Where did you get that information? What format of Nitrate are you referring too?

 

Where did you get that information? What format of Nitrate are you referring too?

The acerage fish can tolerate nitrate levels between 100 to 500 mg/L but it's better to keep it under 50 mg/L.

 

Nitrate only get's toxic at 100 pmm (or mg/L) it's currently at 10 ppm so that wouldn't be a proble in a long shot.

I think above 40ppm nitrate is considered toxic (so 40 and under is safe), but it preferable to keep nitrates around 10-20ppm.

 

The acerage fish can tolerate nitrate levels between 100 to 500 mg/L but it's better to keep it under 50 mg/L.



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Using your own source, I found a few things that say other wise to your claim.

There is no single level 'dangerous' dosage. Aquarists playing safe by trying to keep this level below 50 mg/l. Though in reality species vary enormously in their tolerance to this toxin. The theory today is that prolonged exposure to elevated levels of nitrate may decrease the immune response, induce internal hematological and biochemical changes within the animal (behaviour changes) and may increase mortality.

The average fish can withstand quite high dosages of nitrates (100-500mg/l) as long as the build up of the chemical is slow and over many days in the tank. However it's quite common for less experience aquarists to go and introduce a new fish to their seemingly healthy tank of fish only for the new fish to die overnight due to nitrate poisoning if the tank water is heavy with nitrate. And as stated previously each species tolerance is different (and poorly researched in the cases of ornamental aquatic pets) which is why the hobby often recommends an average safe level of 50mg/l.

It is impossible to set a standard number for toxicity and tolerance for all fish or aquatic animals. Saying 100 ppm is where it is toxic is a false statement and is bad advice to other readers who may take your statement as fact and think they can let their tank go that high. 40 ppm is the suggested point where you should do a water change, unless you are an advanced aquarist and know exactly what your fish prefer or can thrive in.

 

The acerage fish can tolerate nitrate levels between 100 to 500 mg/L but it's better to keep it under 50 mg/L.



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Wikipedia is not a reliable source for anything. I can go into that article if I want to and change it to say nitrates don't exist. Anyone can edit those to say anything they want.

Most fish are capable of tolerating an extremely high level of nitrate in their water. But, when this is happening, TDS rises and water quality begins to fall. The problem usually comes when the aquarists does a large water change to get the Nitrate down, thus causing a massive pH, TDS and hardness swing, along with a big smack upside the fish's head with the difference in osmotic pressure. That's why it's generally best to keep the nitrates below 100ppm, preferably lower. The shock of such drastic changes can often cause the fish to die.

However, I doubt this will become an issue in your aquarium. With regular water changes the nitrates don't get that high and the TDS remains fairly stable.

 

I only know from personal experience junebug. In my tanks with gravel and a dirty HOB filter, there is always fungus pin tail on my fry. My females get fungus on their backs. In tanks that are bare bottom, and kept more clean, this problem dosent exist. That is all the proof I need personally. Maybe its not "Nitryfiying bacteria" per say, but all the poo and gunk that exist in the gravel of an established tank. Since this does have some bacteria growing on it, I was advising him to keep a healthy balance. Junebug you raise guppies like me.....I'm surprised your not in agreement with me. Do you keep your tanks bare bottom? This was mostly the point I'm trying to make. Spoonge filters get clogged easily, and gravel harbors a lot of poo and uneaten food.....leading to disease! This is what I was trying to say.

 

If your gravel gets dirty, you could clean it with a siphon. Same with the filter, you can swish it around in a bucket of old tank water. How often do you do water changes?

If your fish really do have fungus, shouldn't you be treating it?

And I'm not quite sure what you mean by a "healthy balance." It's quite vague, can you expand on that?

Junebug, what is TDS?

 

I only know from personal experience junebug. In my tanks with gravel and a dirty HOB filter, there is always fungus pin tail on my fry. My females get fungus on their backs. In tanks that are bare bottom, and kept more clean, this problem dosent exist. That is all the proof I need personally. Maybe its not "Nitryfiying bacteria" per say, but all the poo and gunk that exist in the gravel of an established tank. Since this does have some bacteria growing on it, I was advising him to keep a healthy balance. Junebug you raise guppies like me.....I'm surprised your not in agreement with me. Do you keep your tanks bare bottom? This was mostly the point I'm trying to make. Spoonge filters get clogged easily, and gravel harbors a lot of poo and uneaten food.....leading to disease! This is what I was trying to say.

I can see why she wouldn't agree with you, because your just plain wrong in what you are saying. Fungus doesn't live off nitrates or it wouldn't be considered a decomposer, rather a consumer. It lives off the organic material, mostly poop and left over food. If there is a large amount of decaying organic material, spores become so prolific in the water column that your fish are in danger of fungus developing on them. In other words, if your fish keep getting fungus, clean your tank better.
As fungus decomposes the organic material, ammonia is one of the byproducts. The bacteria in the filter consumes this ammonia and produces nitrites, which is again consumed by another bacteria to produce nitrates. The amount of bacteria in your tank is directly proportional to the amount of ammonia produced in the system, regardless of how clean the HOB is. As stated though, dirty tanks produce more ammonia, thus require more bacteria. Thoroughly cleaning out the media as you suggested will remove much of the bacteria, but it will eventually grow back to the same exact numbers it was before you cleaned it. As I said, the production of ammonia is the only nature control on the numbers of the bacteria present.
Course gravel is no better or worse when it comes to the cleanliness of the tank. If you use a gravel vacuum, you can easily remove most of the organic material below. It isn't required that all of it get removed, as the system will break it down and regular water changes will reduce the nitrates, or live plants can be used to consume the nitrates.

Finally, the subject of high nitrates....Junebug covered it quite well. I will only elaborate on her point. When doing water changes, the nitrates are lowered by the same percent of water removed and replaced. If you do a 50% water change than the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates, all are reduced by 50%. This means that if your nitrates are 40ppm when you do a 50% water change, you are only making a 20ppm change in the levels. In the case of the 100 ppm, you are looking at the same water change reducing the nitrates to 50 ppm. This is a much greater impact on the fish that the aforementioned 20ppm adjustment.

 

I only know from personal experience junebug. In my tanks with gravel and a dirty HOB filter, there is always fungus pin tail on my fry. My females get fungus on their backs. In tanks that are bare bottom, and kept more clean, this problem dosent exist. That is all the proof I need personally. Maybe its not "Nitryfiying bacteria" per say, but all the poo and gunk that exist in the gravel of an established tank. Since this does have some bacteria growing on it, I was advising him to keep a healthy balance. Junebug you raise guppies like me.....I'm surprised your not in agreement with me. Do you keep your tanks bare bottom? This was mostly the point I'm trying to make. Spoonge filters get clogged easily, and gravel harbors a lot of poo and uneaten food.....leading to disease! This is what I was trying to say.

Sponge filters don't clog with proper maintenance. Gravel should never have uneaten food in it, and if you don't have a heavily planted tank, it shouldn't have much waste in it either. Neither factor should lead to disease of any kind if the tank is properly kept.

I keep my livebearers in NPTs. Always have and always will. IME the best way to balance a tank is with a natural cleaning system in place and the correct stocking level, and the correct ratio of cleaners to fish. My NPTs all have snails, shrimp, scuds, blackworms or tubifex, as a cleanup crew. I also do water changes if/when they become necessary and squeeze out my sponges when they start to get dirty.

The bottom line is tank maintenance is the best and really only way to maintain balance. So, why is your HOB filter dirty? Why does the gravel contain rotting food and an excess of waste? Without the nitrifying bacteria you're killing off rinsing your filter media in chlorinated tap water, I'm not surprised you're having health issues.

Junebug, what is TDS?

TDS stands for total dissolved solids. It's a measure of the amount of organic and inorganic waste that has been fully dissolved in the water. Changes in TDS affect different fish differently, and most fish are fairly tolerant of a wide range of TDS. However, usually, the higher the TDS, the harder it is for the fish to breathe.

Eventually in tanks with very high TDS the fish do acclimate and their activity level lowers. If it reaches a critical juncture where the fish's systems can't compensate for the lack of o2 reaching the system, illness can and will ensue. But this is usually not the case, because we do water changes. However if we let the TDS get very high and then do a sudden large water change, the osmotic pressure (how the fish breathes) in the tank goes through a drastic swing, stresses their system, and they will often die of shock or oversaturation of oxygen.

 

bacteria lives all over surfaces in the tank.. but mostly in the filter.

 

Okay junebug, I'm not currently having any problems....please don't get personal with me. These are just problems that ive had in the past..... I'm going to start rinsing off in a bucket of declor water from now on. I was under the impression that cool tap water was not so bad for just a few seconds. But no matter what, gravel contains a ton of feces , Ever taken a tank down that had gravel? IT STINKS, and you cannot call all this Mulm " good bacteria" It is just my opinion that its better to use bare bottom or sand.

 

Back on topic.

 

Mat no one is getting personal with you. Simple fact if you vlean something it gets cleaner if you don't it gets dirtier. So if you don't clean your gravel or any substrate it will get dirty and disgusting. The only time I have ever had trouble is with an UGF. if your rinsing your gilter media in chlorinated water there's a good chance that's what's caused troubles in the past.

 

There is a technique that I use to vacuum gravel well. Stick your gravel vac deep in the gravel at one spot. Leave it there a few seconds. Then lift it and stick it deeply in right beside that spot. Keep sticking it in deeply, waiting a few seconds, then pull it out. If you vacuum this way , your gravel can stay pretty clean. You may just go over part of the tank each week this way (maybe 1/3 of the tank). Do this wherever you do not have rooted plants. Move driftwood and decorations and vacuum under them too.

 

Back on topic.

Agreed, lets get back on topic. If you wish to discuss the potential of nitrosomona and nitrobacter potentially becoming unhealthy for fish, I can move the posts to their own separate thread.

 

Agreed, lets get back on topic. If you wish to discuss the potential of nitrosomona and nitrobacter potentially becoming unhealthy for fish, I can move the posts to their own separate thread.

thank you.... thatd be awesome