ATTENTION: read if you are cycling your tank

I figured I had to make a post because I'm seeing so many people going through the pain of cycling. There is a fairly inexpensive and easy to access product for your problems! The product is called safe start and is by tetra (not aqua safe) it has a green cap and I found it at walmart for about $6.49. The bottle is culture of all the bacteria you are working so hard to create to get rid of your ammonia and nitrite. It is a huge help with cycling. I have used this product A LOT and it has not failed me. I started a brand new 20 gallon, dumped a bottle in and added fish that same hour, no problems. I used this product in my 55 gallon recently because I had done a complete change of the gravel and the filters and I still did not experience spikes. I add it anytime I make any major changes to the tanks and it really is a life saver. My friend was cycling her tank using African cichlids and the ammonia and nitrite were through the roof when I tested it for her. (note ammonia readings above 4 ppm will render the product useless). So I went out and bought a bottle, dumped it in and the next day the ammonia and nitrite were considerably lower (it takes time to bring it down when its that high) and there were finally nitrate readings. All fish survived and the tank was reading 0s a few weeks later and nitrate was still of course there. This is a great product that I highly recommend, beginners and experienced hobbyist alike will find great use from this cycling aid. USE AS DIRECTED. Also you should note not to do a water change for two weeks after the use of this product.
please visit: https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/

 

Hi,

This is a miracle product that I highly recommend, beginners and experienced hobbyist alike need to stop worrying about cycling!

Cycling a tank is an important concept that every aquarist needs to understand. To suggest that one need not worry about it is, IMHO, is a little short-sighted and poor advice, considering you yourself were worried about it. If one was not worried about cycling their tank, why would one test their parameters? Additionally, testing water using an additive can give misleading results:

It's great that you've had success with TSS. Like many before you, used as directed, TSS can be very effective.
The following is a great article regarding the use of TSS https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/resources/tetra-safestart-q-a.29/ (there are also many more threads on Fishlore about TSS)

As for the product being a "miracle" product; personally, I dispute this assertion. Whilst, as stated above, many have had great success when using as directed, it is not guaranteed to work in every situation.

My humble opinion is that one should always strive to cycle a tank PRIOR to the addition of any livestock. Many will argue with my opinion, but it is my personal approach. Whether this is achieved through traditional cycling or the use of established media, a cycled tank is a better approach.

It's also important to acknowledge that there are other products on the market that perform very effectively.

Also - be aware that TSS is not available in all countries. Likewise, other bacterial additives are not always available.

 

I'd hazard to guess that mature media is available in all countries, unless you live in some incredibly small country & are the only person who owns an aquarium. It ships easier than fish, and is considerably more reliable. There are no miracle products in aquatics, I really can't think of any miracles in aquatics as a whole.

 

I would just like to say the science behind it is solid, it is the bacteria that is cycling. I have had these aquariums for months now so I know it works just fine. I wasn't aware that it wouldnt work in some situations, could you perhaps go into greater detail?
As for your first paragraph, while cycling is an important concept and it is important to check your water, I do not believe that having an "instant cycle" will direct people away from testing water or worrying about what's in it. I merely want people to be using this product because in my experience it works flawlessly and if used correctly can save stress on people as well as stress on fish. Most people will say that using established media is a good idea for cycling but the same concept is here.

 

I'm just wondering, how would you know the science behind these products is "solid?" I imagine that companies like Tetra is very secretive about their products.

Sometimes TSS doesn't work because people don't follow the instruction. For example, they do a water change or maybe their ammonia is too high and it kills off the bacteria.
TSS also wouldn't work if the bottle has "gone bad" so that the bacteria inside has died.

While I think that TSS is a good product, I wouldn't call it a miracle product.

 

When I got my 13 gallon tank, the LPS told me about this, and I did try it. The only thing was, I followed the directions on the bottle and only added 1 teaspoonful for 2 or three days. Needless to say, my nitrites went wild - to the danger zone, but strangely, the fish survived. However, three fish died about a month later, well after I had the water under control. My thought it was the initially high nitrate that killed them.

 

I would just like to say the science behind it is solid, it is the bacteria that is cycling. I have had these aquariums for months now so I know it works just fine. I wasn't aware that it wouldnt work in some situations, could you perhaps go into greater detail?
As for your first paragraph, while cycling is an important concept and it is important to check your water, I do not believe that having an "instant cycle" will direct people away from testing water or worrying about what's in it. I merely want people to be using this product because in my experience it works flawlessly and if used correctly can save stress on people as well as stress on fish. Most people will say that using established media is a good idea for cycling but the same concept is here.

There are many cases of TSS not working. Try googling "Tetra Safe Start" or "Does Tetra Safe Start work" and you will get a ton of links to people with both good and bad experiences.

Saying something works flawlessly when you have used it for little over one month is a bit of a stretch and could be misleading to someone new to the hobby. While it has worked for you, others it may not work for. To Ryanr's point, no one should be steered away from proper care and cycling of a tank. Your claims of "flawless" and "miracle product" may give someone the wrong impression, that maybe they just need to buy this bottle and all of their problems go away. I think what Ryanr was trying to point out is there a lot of science and understanding needed to have a successful tank that many new to the hobby miss out on, as they are sold this product and that just to cover things up.

As to why Tetra Safe Start doesn't work for some, it could be a variety of issues. Some don't follow the instructions. Some may have purchased a bad batch/bottle, maybe it was stored in too hot or cold conditions. Maybe the conditions in their tank are not conducive to TSS's use, things like PH or REDOX levels could have drastic effects on it.

In the end, it is great that you found a product that works well for you. We just need to be careful stating something is a "miracle" or "flawless" as here on fishlore we try to promote the quality care of fish and aquariums which often doesn't include just dumping in a bottle of some new end all be all product.

For what it's worth, I use Seachem Stability and have had great results with it. It is another bacteria boosting product. But just like TSS you will find some say it doesn't work for them. As for the science behind why it works, here is a great link to Seachem's website. Seachem is a great company in my opinion as they are very active on their own forums with questions and answers, supplying info and what their tests results show. Very few companies have transparency like this, and one of the many reasons, I love Seachem.

https://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Stability.html

 

When I got my 13 gallon tank, the LPS told me about this, and I did try it. The only thing was, I followed the directions on the bottle and only added 1 teaspoonful for 2 or three days. Needless to say, my nitrites went wild - to the danger zone, but strangely, the fish survived. However, three fish died about a month later, well after I had the water under control. My thought it was the initially high nitrate that killed them.

Those are not the directions. The directions are to add the entire bottle when starting up a new aquarium. Then add fish. Edit: actually I know of another "cycling" product that my pet supermarket tried to get me to buy that had directions exactly like that but I refused to buy anything but the safe start which they didnt have.
@
I don't understand what you mean. Water changes don't get rid of bacteria because the bacteria is not free floating. It sticks to solid surfaces. Also I know the science is solid because its plain and simple. Safe start contains the same exact strains of bacteria used in cycling (look at ingredients on back). I say the science is solid because knowing an excess about bacteria cultures from college biology I know that adding the bacteria to the tank accomplishes the same thing waiting for it to grow on its own would.

 

To be honest I'm kind of grateful fly my beginner cycle struggles as they taught me a lot and I have what I feel is a much better understanding of the cycle than if I used an instant cycle product.

It forced me to read and research and fortunately I didn't lose any fish in the process.

Don't get me wrong, I'd use it now, but I think having to learn has made me a more knowledgable fish owner.

 

I don't understand what you mean. Water changes don't get rid of bacteria because the bacteria is not free floating. It sticks to solid surfaces. Also I know the science is solid because its plain and simple. Safe start contains the same exact strains of bacteria used in cycling (look at ingredients on back). I say the science is solid because knowing an excess about bacteria cultures from college biology I know that adding the bacteria to the tank accomplishes the same thing waiting for it to grow on its own would.

Just curious, if it's the exact same thing and not free floating how does it live in the bottle with no ammonia. Not doubting the product, just curious.

As far as "looking at the ingredients on the back" -- what would I compare them to? Unfortunately my bio bag doesn't have an ingredient list of bacteria strains that develop on it.

 

Vyvid I uderstand what your saying but in the same sense taking the time to do anything through hard work has always been a learning experience but there always comes a time where science makes it easy and simple for better or worse. I'm not saying that no one should take the time to cycle the hard way, I'm just saying that there is another option and it can save stress from people who can't handle it and give up on this amazing hobby too soon. However I still recommend that everyone use it if they are open to the idea because there's plenty of beginners who are killing fish by accident because they don't know better and losing hope because of it.

 

I would just like to say the science behind it is solid

Yes, the science is well proven, and I don't dispute the science. But there are a number of factors involved.
For the science minded:


(whilst this site is specific to their products, the science is correct)

Also, for those interested, you can google "Dr TI'm Biospira"
Dr TI'm Havonec was the chief scientist behind the development of a product called Bio-Spira. Tetra bought Bio-Spira from Dr TI'm circa 2006/7, and renamed it Safe Start, and thus TSS was born. Bio-Spira still exists today as a marine product, and Dr TI'm has since gone on to create Dr Tim's One and Only.

it is the bacteria that is cycling.

Respectfully, this is incorrect. The "cycle" refers to the process of nitrification and denitrification in a system. Or in laymans terms, converting ammonia -> nitriite -> nitrate -> harmless nitrogen gas.
Bacteria grows/colonises in a system, facilitating the nitrification and de-nitrification cycle (what we commonly call the Nitrogen Cycle) in the system.
Nitrifying baceria perform the ammonia -> nitrate cycle, whilst de-nitrification (final phase of the cycle) converts nitrate to nitrogen.

 

Vyvid I uderstand what your saying but in the same sense taking the time to do anything through hard work has always been a learning experience but there always comes a time where science makes it easy and simple for better or worse. I'm not saying that no one should take the time to cycle the hard way, I'm just saying that there is another option and it can save stress from people who can't handle it and give up on this amazing hobby too soon. However I still recommend that everyone use it if they are open to the idea because there's plenty of beginners who are killing fish by accident because they don't know better and losing hope because of it.

I understand what you mean, I'm not knocking the product at all. That being said, if someone would give up the hobby over cycling frustration, it's probably not the right hobby for them considering its a hobby that literally puts lives in your hands.

 

ryanr that second quote was a part of the post that typed fast and I didnt word it right. Anyways just wanted to put this product out there. I'm not sure why people are so against its use but I 100% recommend it

 

fishcrazy99 I agree with the sentiment (Tetra SafeStart can work) if not the wording behind your initial post.

 

Let's be clear here.... No-one on Fishlore is against the product, quite the contrary, TSS is one the most recommended products on the forum.

Where the contention comes in is when we (as a community) use terms like "miracle product", "flawless" etc. No product is perfect, and as I've stated, used as directed, TSS has proven to be very effective.

Additionally, I get upset when I see advice suggesting that we "need to stop worrying about cycling". Every aquarist should be aware of and understand the Nitrogen Cycle.

I'm happy you've found that, in your experience, the product works for you

 

HI fishcrazy99, just want to mention why sometimes these products fail.

No. 1 of course is PH, I have a PH of 8.3 and have never had any luck with those sold at stores and I've tried at least two. My original cycle took 12 weeks, no lie, 12 weeks. I used a few bottles during that time and finally realized they weren't helping at all.

No 2. There are at least 13 species of nitrosomonas and which ones would have naturally grown in your tank and which of the bottled variety will survive in your tank is a bit of a gamble as far as which ones come in that bottle. I don't think they include every species....

My guess for very low ph and very high ph or high temps or low temps etc that a very specific kind are needed and those are the kind that appear in your tank as others will not survive.

For those whose tanks fit into the right parameters and will populate with the given nitrosomonas then the product can work great

I learned so much cycling my tank with goldfish. It was a lot of work!!!! but no one died and they lived for years. I think the only down side about using these products is that people tend to not really learn the specifics of their nitrogen cycle.

 

ryanr now I understand what you mean. If you want to you can edit my op to be more correct




@cmclein my tanks are at a ph of 8.2 and ive used this product during ich heat treatments and in unheated tanks

 

ryanr now I understand what you mean. If you want to you can edit my op to be more correct

I hope my pm helped so I can feel like a peacemaker

 

I closed the thread but I guess it was reopened? I don't know if I've been coming off rude because its so not intentional but lately it seems like every time I post I get people what feels like attacking me....

 

I think sometimes people just get more focused on solving and preventing tank and fish issues and less focused on clarifying that they don't mean differing or additional opinions or information as a personal attack or a form of bashing yours.

I could be wrong, but I imagine a lot of us are fish people, not people people

 

Fishcrazy99
I hope you don't think I was attacking you. My point was just that there are many nitrosonomas and many variables and that is why it doesn't work for everyone.

I'm glad it has worked for you though.

 

@cmclein
No not at all, its mostly been on other threads. I ask a question and then get attacked for something irrelevant or people get mad when I ask them to tell me more about their personal experiences because things like tank size and such really matter with the behavior of fish.

 

Sometimes because people are passionate about fish care their responses can feel like:




But really I think everyone has the best intentions.

 

No not at all, its mostly been on other threads

Off topic of the original post but I looked at your threads.
We don't want people attacking you.
It looked to me that members were trying to be help.

If you want to pm me with some specifics I'll be happy to look them over.
Also there is a report button if you feel there is something inappropriate.

 

I like TSS a lot and it is recommended here frequently. Not sure why you think it is not. I used it to push a fish in cycle that was failing and it worked. Next time I may or may not use it though. But it is most definitely not an "instant cycle" as you have said and I would warn anyone new to the cycle process of that. Even Tetra won't say it's an instant cycle. That's why they instruct you not to change the water for 2 weeks after adding a bottle...to allow the beneficial bacteria time to take hold and cycle the aquarium. I meticulously checked my water using a quality test kit twice daily after adding TSS for 2 weeks to insure my fish were safe and that the cycle was going as it should. Cycling isn't complete until ammonia and nitrites are 0 and nitrates are in a safe range. This doesn't occur simply by dumping a bottle in...it takes time. To call it instant is misleading.

Also, I would strongly recommend anyone purchasing TSS to carefully check expiration dates on TSS, especially somewhere like Walmart where they aren't selling large quantities of aquarium supplies on a monthly basis. I went to Walmart to save a buck on my TSS and EVERY bottle had expired between 7/14 and 10/14. This was this month (3/15)! The bacteria in the bottle does die if left packaged on the shelf too long. I had no issues picking up unexpired TSS at Petco. I also bought a backup bottle I didn't end up needing from Amazon that has an even further out expiration date.

 

The reason I called it an instant cycle is because I use it that way with no problems. I never had ammonia or nitrite in the tank.
Also I never heard that about waiting two weeks. It doesn't say it on the bottle.




Found this blast from the past VERY helpful. This answers a lot of stuff we've been wondering about or debating.
https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/q-a-with-tetra-about-tetra-safestart.58116/

 

If you read through Tetras Q&A's on their site the two week comment is in there somewhere. It's free floating bacteria at first and has to take hold in a new aquarium. Walter changes too soon could compromise it. Not sure how often you tested after using TSS, but nitrates only appear after beneficial bacteria turns ammonia into nitrites and then to nitrates. With my frequent testing during the TSS period I saw these gradual changeovers. It took a few days to start and then about a week and a half to complete. Again, I love TSS and it saved me, but it's just not instant unfortunately. That would truly be an awesome product if one were ever created.

 

Yes after reading more (sorry I didnt know this previous to posting) I agree it is not an instant cycle however it is a very great cycling aid

 

Someone should start selling pre-established BB on bio media in like sealed pouches of water with ammonia you just yank out and toss in your filter (kidding)

 

Yes, that post was referenced to me when looking into TSS in this group and was a huge help! The 2 week recommendation is there as well. Good info there as well as on the Tetra website.




Maybe we can all start our own local businesses selling it. lol

 

Lol on that note, what do you guys recommend doing when you have to replace filter cartridges? Is it safe to just put the new one in and leave it or should I be switching between filters?

 

Depends on your filter and if there is any bio media in it other than your carbon cartridge. I just learned there is not in mine so I'm working on correcting that before I can change the cartridge.

 

Whisper 10I on a 10 gallon. Its just a filter cartridge with carbon in it plus some weird thing I don't understand that says something about anerobic something

 

Not familiar with that filter. My filters only bio media is the floss bag holding the carbon meaning if I switch it out I lose my cycle...no good. Working on getting bio media into my current filter (such as ceramic) or getting a second filter that does. Hope someone who is familiar with that filter can help you out.

 

Well I just put the old filter back in just incase and ill switch it again in like 12 hours. Its been two days so most of the bacteria probably died anyway

 

If it's dried out and hasn't had ammonia feeding it chances are your beneficial bacteria is dead. Might need to restart your cycle with TSS again.

 

When changing the media, you could cut out the floss and put it in with the new cartridge.
But the media doesn't need to be changed very often. Maybe once a year? You basically change it whenever the media starts to fall apart.

 

I change it when it beomes heavily discolored and smelly because I feel like it keeps the water clearer. That's only 2-3 times a year. The filter did dry out but I read somewhere that every 24 hours the bacteria has no food you loose 25%




I stuck the new filter just into the bottom of the tank to keep the bacteria that's on it alive

 

TSS is a product that will work 100% of the time in cases where:

1. The product itself it not expired and has been stored properly.
2. The product is used exactly as directed on the bottle.
3. The right size bottle was used for the aquarium.
4. The parameters of the water are in line with what is expected (mainly pH, ammonia, and temp).
5. The hobbyist follows the complete instructions to let the product work in the 14 day time frame.

It doesn't take much to screw it up and then those cases are the source of the bad reviews for the product when it was user error in one way or another.

That being said there are other products that will accomplish the same thing as TSS, but the same criteria apply, it must not be expired and the directions must be follow explicitly.

_________________________________

One thing I've noticed (cant really call it a problem)

A lot of new members that are having trouble with something say "my tank has high ammonia, help me" or "my fish looks sick, help me". I think there needs to be a requirement for posts that are looking for help to put in the crucial details needed like tank size, current stock, and water parameters. Almost every thread created by a new member lacks this information and the first 5-10 responses are getting this information before the problem is even addressed. This time could be the difference of hours or even days, which could cost the life of some poor fish. I know there's the profile settings for this stuff but the new members can't do that or don't know about it.

A lot of us try to help each other where we can. We know what is "best for the fish" and we try to express that to the person asking the question. This can result in the person trying to help coming across as rude, snobby, and critical. In a perfect world everyone would do the research before getting their first tank, know everything about setting up the tank, know what fish to get based on water parameters and other stocking conflicts, and know what equipment to get and how to plant their tank, etc. But then this wonderful place we call fish-lore wouldnt exist. This is a place of helping and I see so much of this "behavior" going on that, has good intentions, but comes off in a bad way. I think we all need to be a little more mindful that not everyone is as experienced and be a little more personable when conversing rather than, "that fish needs a school of 6", "that plant needs 8 hours of light from this watt bulb", "that filter is too small for your tank", or "your tank is overstocked, you need to rehome your fish". We were all beginners and I'm sure everyone has at some point made a mistake. Helping people is why we are here, not to prove who knows the most.

Thank you for reading and good night (or good morning (or good afternoon)).