At What Point Do I Euthanize

my heart is extremely heavy today and I sit beside my beloved 3 year old ryukin goldfish and watch as he struggles. yesterday I realized he had dropsy. he is upside down and can get himself right side up, he is extremely bloated, and he is pineconeing. he is breathing normally if not heavier than usual and he still moves his fins to try to get right side up. he’s trying his hardest to survive. he’s been moved to a 5 gallon tank with an aerator, heater, melafix, pimafix, aquarium salt, and epsom salt. he can’t eat since he’s upside down. I don’t know if he wants to but he can’t move himself at all so he can’t eat. at what point do I euthanize. i’ve been through a lot of things with this fish and he is my favorite animal out of my countless fish, reptiles, and fuzzy animals. any advice or answers are appreciated.

update: it’s been around 15 hours since he went in the hospital tank. he’s moving his tail more and if he moves his fins enough he can get on his side for a moment before floating back upside down.

 

If it’s reversible, get kanaplex ASAP. The fixes will do nothing nor will salt

 

Your doing all the right things, sorry I can't suggest anything else. I hope it responds well to treatment. As dropsy is a symptom not a cause it's very hard to know how to treat it

 

I don’t hold out much hope for any fish with dropsy, because once bloat turns to dropsy it's usually too late. But not always. It’s only severe bloat after all, and it can be cured sometimes.

The Epsom salt may be helping a bit. If it’s showing any improvement at all that’s not a bad sign. But you need to try something stronger.

It’s hard to know what to recommend. Sounds like Crimson_687 has had success with Kanaplex so try that.

 

Find a vet that sees fish and get an injection of enrofloxacin or antibiotic of their choosing.

 

Yeah epsom salts can help alleviate some of fluid buildup. But if it's infection causing the pineconing and not severe bloat, the fish will need antibiotics. I can't suggest anything cuz Kanaplex didn't help for my fish I hope the best for you and your fish.

 

angelcraze dropsy is bloat, however it’s caused. It’s called dropsy when the fish is so bloated that it pushes the scales out. They’re symptoms, not diseases.

 

Yeah epsom salts can help alleviate some of fluid buildup. But if it's infection causing the pineconing and not severe bloat, the fish will need antibiotics. I can't suggest anything cuz Kanaplex didn't help for my fish I hope the best for you and your fish.

Kanamycin is the best option of all the aquarium antibiotics but there's still a roughly 50% chance the bacteria is resistant. Also, the recommended dosage for Kanaplex is 17 times lower than that recommended in scientific literature which might explain some treatment failures.

Hence my recommendation for enrofloxacin and other prescription-only antibiotics via injection.

 

if its pine coning, their really is nothing you can do. if it was just swim bladder and swimming upside down you could try to make a floting hammock for him.
you fish is not getting any better sitting in all those salts and tee tree oils.
I'm sorry to say this but it might be time to let her go.
Clove oil is a good option it works.

 

Find a vet that sees fish and get an injection of enrofloxacin or antibiotic of their choosing.

This is good advice. I have taken one of my sick fish to a vet. My husband thought I was crazy but I love my fish as I can see you do. It cost me 32 dollars and he saved her. Have you tried trying to use like planting tweezers with food to hand feed? It's true it may be too late but if you're not ready to give up I would try the vet and a hand feed.

 

angelcraze dropsy is bloat, however it’s caused. It’s called dropsy when the fish is so bloated that it pushes the scales out. They’re symptoms, not diseases.

Thanks, I'll try to reword. The symptom can be caused by infection. If it is, than antibiotics or other more intensive treatments are required.

AvalancheDave I read that as well, it would be better if I had used pure kanamycin. But antibiotics for fish are not available anymore in my country anyway, so I personally don't use them. If I had vets that would look at fish, I agree that would be the best treatment method.

 

AvalancheDave I read that as well, it would be better if I had used pure kanamycin. But antibiotics for fish are not available anymore in my country anyway, so I personally don't use them. If I had vets that would look at fish, I agree that would be the best treatment method.

https://chuv.umontreal.ca/le-chuv/h...-de-compagnie/clinique-des-animaux-exotiques/

Is that near you?

 

AvalancheDave I read that as well, it would be better if I had used pure kanamycin. But antibiotics for fish are not available anymore in my country anyway, so I personally don't use them. If I had vets that would look at fish, I agree that would be the best treatment method.

https://chuv.umontreal.ca/le-chuv/h...-de-compagnie/clinique-des-animaux-exotiques/

Is that near you?[/QUOTE]
Ahhh tx! It's about 3 hrs away

 

So, my poor BN pleco injured her head & eye a while back & she's been in my QT being treated with Furan2 & Kanaplex.
The skin injury is healing well but her eye, which she has got to have lost sight in, is protruding horribly above her head, looking like it could pop off. For the past 3 days she has not moved much from this position, except for maybe a few inches forward & then back. I do not believe she has eaten & I feel she is in pain going by the way her back fin is regularly flapping. I've tried to post a video but have been unsuccessful.
As much as I love this fish, I am questioning what her quality of life will be, if she survives when I put her in her community tank of peaceful tetras & nerite snails.
Will post updated pics of her eye from my phone.
Has anyone dealt with an eye injury this severe???

 

 

I wouldn't consider euthanasia until you have tried every option to heal/save your fish and/or the fish has lost the will to live. For instance, barely moving around and ignoring food, hiding behind plants or not really responding. There really isn't anything you can do, especially if you have tried every option to save your fish. Sounds like a tumor or some kind of cancer going on with your pleco... I hope she survives if you don't consider using euthanasia. It's up to you, depends on how much pain your fish is in.

 

I would euthanize. If they are not swimming, ect it's not really fair to keep it alive.

 

I wouldn't consider euthanasia until you have tried every option to heal/save your fish and/or the fish has lost the will to live. For instance, barely moving around and ignoring food, hiding behind plants or not really responding. There really isn't anything you can do, especially if you have tried every option to save your fish. Sounds like a tumor or some kind of cancer going on with your pleco... I hope she survives if you don't consider using euthanasia. It's up to you, depends on how much pain your fish is in.

No, it's not a tumour. She injured her head & it affected her eye. The eye got re-injured & partly ripped off. So now the skin around the eye is healing with treatment but the eye is partially detached from her head.
She hasn't moved much from her spot on the glass. No matter what time of day I check on her.

 

The problem with eye infections is that it can be Gram positive (most infections of fish are Gram negative). The eye is gone but the fish still has a chance.

We have the technology to treat this so I don't think euthanasia is the right thing to do.

Nitrofurans probably only work on external infections and Kanaplex is dosed 17 times lower than recommended in veterinary literature.

For starters, I would stop dosing Furan-2 and increase the dosage of Kanaplex.

 

The problem with eye infections is that it can be Gram positive (most infections of fish are Gram negative). The eye is gone but the fish still has a chance.

We have the technology to treat this so I don't think euthanasia is the right thing to do.

Nitrofurans probably only work on external infections and Kanaplex is dosed 17 times lower than recommended in veterinary literature.

For starters, I would stop dosing Furan-2 and increase the dosage of Kanaplex.

Ok, increase dose in frequency or volume per dose?
My QT is a 5.5g heated filtered (only has floss in the filter now) tank.

 

Ok, increase dose in frequency or volume per dose?
My QT is a 5.5g heated filtered (only has floss in the filter now) tank.

Increase the dose.

 

Increase the dose.

Ok, increase by how much?
Currently putting in the recommended dose of half a scoop.

 

Ok, increase by how much?
Currently putting in the recommended dose of half a scoop.

I think 8-10 times recommended would be a good starting point. The dosage in veterinary literature is 17-34 times higher so this is halfway there.

 

I would euthanize. If they are not swimming, ect it's not really fair to keep it alive.

This is why I’m asking.
And also because of the nature of the eye injury & how it is healing. It really looks like it should be surgically removed so she doesn’t have this appendage that has become her right eye. Even if the skin heals, it will always be sticking up & out very grotesquely & be a potential for her to rip off & create a new & worse injury there. And I don’t know if she will ever not have pain or discomfort there.
Right now, she is in the same spot in the tank she’s been for atleast 3 days, maybe scooching forward a couple of inches but then scooching back to where she was. And her food - even her favourite brussell sprout & broccoli stem remain untouched. Her only other movement is her back right fin flapping, as if in annoyance & pain.
I don’t do euthanasia easily but I’m not seeing any improvement towards a quality of life.

 

This is why I’m asking.
And also because of the nature of the eye injury & how it is healing. It really looks like it should be surgically removed so she doesn’t have this appendage that has become her right eye. Even if the skin heals, it will always be sticking up & out very grotesquely & be a potential for her to rip off & create a new & worse injury there. And I don’t know if she will ever not have pain or discomfort there.
Right now, she is in the same spot in the tank she’s been for atleast 3 days, maybe scooching forward a couple of inches but then scooching back to where she was. And her food - even her favourite brussell sprout & broccoli stem remain untouched. Her only other movement is her back right fin flapping, as if in annoyance & pain.
I don’t do euthanasia easily but I’m not seeing any improvement towards a quality of life.

I feel like if this were my fish I would euth it, this is past the point I’d want to put her through treatment unless surgery to remove it was an option. Because you’re right, it’ll just be a dead eye and dead tissue waiting to cause another problem, even if you fix it right now.

 

This is why I’m asking.
And also because of the nature of the eye injury & how it is healing. It really looks like it should be surgically removed so she doesn’t have this appendage that has become her right eye. Even if the skin heals, it will always be sticking up & out very grotesquely & be a potential for her to rip off & create a new & worse injury there. And I don’t know if she will ever not have pain or discomfort there.
Right now, she is in the same spot in the tank she’s been for atleast 3 days, maybe scooching forward a couple of inches but then scooching back to where she was. And her food - even her favourite brussell sprout & broccoli stem remain untouched. Her only other movement is her back right fin flapping, as if in annoyance & pain.
I don’t do euthanasia easily but I’m not seeing any improvement towards a quality of life.

I would euthanize. If they are not swimming, ect it's not really fair to keep it alive.

Here are photos showing her partially ripped out right eye.