Are These Koi Angels Supposed To Have Red Gills?

sross78

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I am new to this and as these two have gotten larger I have noticed the more pronounced coloration of red just behind and below the eyes on my koI angelfish. Are these blushing angelfish that are supposed to look this way? or is this a sign of stress or possible illness?

They are not acting stressed in anyway, they both swim to the front of tank every time I walk by, eat like normal etc. The tank conditions are that it is cycling and I am doing everything I can to keep the ammonia levels at .25 ppm or less and using Prime with all water changes and I just started Stability today to see if it will speed up the cycling process.

Thanks
 

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Tiny_Tanganyikans

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That's usually an indication of ammonia poisoning, though it can be caused by other issues. Since your ammonia is high it's more likely the cause. Use 5x prime dose to detoxify and help ammonia poisoining
 

Tyler Fishman

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Any trace amount of ammonia is toxic to fish, angelfish are not particularly hardy, and these fish are showing signs of being affected by ammonia, their gills are very red, do a water change, ammonia poisoning is a silent killer, my pleco died due to an ammonia spike instantly back then
 
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sross78

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the ammonia isn't high and has been kept low from day 1. liveaquaria has an almost identical photo of blushing angels on their site. How are mine different?

also, I have been doing 40-60% water changes almost daily. not sure I can do anymore lol. here is the pic from liveaquaria.
 

Tiny_Tanganyikans

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The ammonia is high for them, do you see how bright dark red it is? Around their eyes? That's a clear indication.

Sure they're blushing angels, doesn't mean it makes ammonia poisoning moot. They're a bad choice of fish for a fish in cycle. I'd do a 5x dose of prime every 24 hours until stability has done its job if you like your angels.
 

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Hmm
How long have you noticed that the color appeared?
I see why you think it could be simply coloration rather than ammonia burns.
While I can't say for certain that it is ammonia burns or it isn't, I would suggest doing water changes as large as you can an dosing the the entire tank size (not just the replaced water) with prime to really get the ammonia converted to ammonium (although it is also dangerous just a little less than ammonia).
Continue this for at the minimum a week continually checking your water parameters. If the burns don't go away and you have an ammonia and nitrite reading of zero for a week or 2 I would think that it is just coloration.
 
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sross78

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these pics were taken with the flash on which pronounces it more than when viewed normally and from what I have read elsewhere, many koI angels display these red colorations. I only stocked fish at the recommendation of a LFS in business over 30 yrs and have done tons of water changes and added prime almost daily to ensure their health.
 

Al913

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Your ammonia should be 0, period. There is no safe zone for ammonia, the only thing would be your fish will live(or suffer) a bit longer when there is less ammonia.

What size tank?
 
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sross78

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Quinn_Lamb98 said:
Hmm
How long have you noticed that the color appeared?
I see why you think it could be simply coloration rather than ammonia burns.
While I can't say for certain that it is ammonia burns or it isn't, I would suggest doing water changes as large as you can an dosing the the entire tank size (not just the replaced water) with prime to really get the ammonia converted to ammonium (although it is also dangerous just a little less than ammonia).
Continue this for at the minimum a week continually checking your water parameters. If the burns don't go away and you have an ammonia and nitrite reading of zero for a week or 2 I would think that it is just coloration.

These guys were very colorful from day one but have gotten bigger so this color is likely more pronounced now. I have also read that koI angelfish have transparent plates over their gills so you likely see the gills as the red color. I did a full tank dose of prime just 24 hours ago and did another 50% water change tonight so I see no way it could be from high ammonia.
 

Al913

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sross78 said:
I only stocked fish at the recommendation of a LFS in business over 30 yrs and have done tons of water changes and added prime almost daily to ensure their health.
Petco has been in the buisness for 52 years and they still allow customers to have a common plec in a 10 gallon

bizaliz3 is pretty good with angels
 
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sross78

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Al913 said:
Your ammonia should be 0, period. There is no safe zone for ammonia, the only thing would be your fish will live(or suffer) a bit longer when there is less ammonia.

What size tank?
the tank is currently cycling and prime is being used...what else do you want me to do?

Al913 said:
bizaliz3 is pretty good with angels
can you instant message someone this thread?

Al913 said:
Petco has been in the buisness for 52 years and they still allow customers to have a common plec in a 10 gallon
if you live near me, you are welcome to give me some established filter media to add to my filter. I am in denver.
 

Tiny_Tanganyikans

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sross78 said:
the tank is currently cycling and prime is being used...what else do you want me to do?
You asked. We offered advice.

5x prime dose is what's recommended any time ammonia or nitrite is present. Start stability immediately to put them through less stress.
 

bizaliz3

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It's natural for young koI angels to have the "blushing" appearance......but it goes away in adulthood.

I don't think that is what this is though. It's looks like a sore or something.....

Edit....the 2nd angel looks like it may be blushing....but that trait doesn't usually get more vibrant over time...it typically goes away over time....
 

Al913

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sross78 said:
if you live near me, you are welcome to give me some established filter media to add to my filter. I am in denver.
LOL, if you look on the profile pic on the left you can see I live in MA

What size tank is this?
 
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sross78

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bizaliz3 said:
It's natural for young koI angels to have the "blushing" appearance......but it goes away in adulthood.

I don't think that is what this is though. It's looks like a sore or something.....

Edit....the 2nd angel looks like it may be blushing....but that trait doesn't usually get more vibrant over time...it typically goes away over time....
Thanks bizaliz3, do you also recommend a 5x prime dosing or something else. I just did a full stability dose and 50% water change an hour ago and did a full tank prime dose last night. I don't think I need a 5x dose really???

also, should I just be doing a full tank prime dose daily?
 

Tiny_Tanganyikans

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sross78 said:
Thanks bizaliz3, do you also recommend a 5x prime dosing or something else. I just did a full stability dose and 50% water change an hour ago and did a full tank prime dose last night. I don't think I need a 5x dose really???

also, should I just be doing a full tank prime dose daily?
A 5x dose is harmless to your fish and detoxifies nitrite and ammonia. This is per seachems recommendation.
 

bizaliz3

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sross78 said:
Thanks bizaliz3, do you also recommend a 5x prime dosing or something else. I just did a full stability dose and 50% water change an hour ago and did a full tank prime dose last night. I don't think I need a 5x dose really???

also, should I just be doing a full tank prime dose daily?
Personally I would do daily water changes treating the full volume of the water with Prime. The normal dose for the tank volume.

I really don't think .25 ammonia would cause ammonia poisoning. Yes you want zero....but .25 isn't devastatingly bad or anything. I personally do not think .25 ammonia would require 5x the dose. From what I understand one dose is supposed to be able to detoxify up to 1.0 ppm ammonia......so I personally wouldnt.

I'd do daily water changes with prime.
 
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sross78

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bizaliz3 said:
Personally I would do daily water changes treating the full volume of the water with Prime. The normal dose for the tank volume.

I really don't think .25 ammonia would cause ammonia poisoning. Yes you want zero....but .25 isn't devastatingly bad or anything. I personally do not think .25 ammonia would require 5x the dose. From what I understand one dose is supposed to be able to detoxify up to 1.0 ppm ammonia......so I personally wouldnt.

I'd do daily water changes with prime.
awesome, thank you so much. I have never had a reading above .50 ppm ammonia and have always done at least 50% at that time, usually every other and lately just daily for the health of the fish. iw will do an full tank prime dose for the 30 gallons with each water change too Thanks for your expertise!
 

bizaliz3

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I've always been told that Prime detoxifies up to 1.0 ppm ammonia for 24 hours. With that being said if yours is below that ...then the normal dose should be sufficient.
 
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sross78

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bizaliz3 said:
I've always been told that Prime detoxifies up to 1.0 ppm ammonia for 24 hours. With that being said if yours is below that ...then the normal dose should be sufficient.
Ok, I assumed jumping to the emergency doses of 3x or 5x really needed a test of 2.0 to 3.0 or higher ammonia which has never happened in this tank.
 

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