Are sticks from outside safe?

Are sticks/logs/chunks of wood from outside safe in an aquarium? I get them all from local parks and forests and was wondering if I could put them in for a more natural look. I know about boiling and all of that.

Should I take the bark off? How do I tell if it's a safe type? I'm pretty sure oak is the most common nearby but coniferous and pine trees are also very common (and are toxic for your fish). Oak varies in color which is a pretty big factor in telling what type of wood it is. I know very little about wood, especially when it comes to smell and pattern/design. Any help is appreciated.

 

In general, yes, providing no pesticides have been used in those areas and they are not close to a lot of traffic. Most totally dead and dry branches are safe. Unless you collect them from a river or lake they may take a long time to sink, you can use rocks to keep them down initially if you don't have time to soak them.

 

In general, yes, providing no pesticides have been used in those areas and they are not close to a lot of traffic. Most totally dead and dry branches are safe. Unless you collect them from a river or lake they may take a long time to sink, you can use rocks to keep them down initially if you don't have time to soak them.

Alright. I'm not sure if pesticides are used but I doubt it since it's a state park. There's a road that goes by but it's a two-lane and you can go pretty deep into a forest. I'll boil it to get any nasties out and to help with waterlogging. I just hope it's oak wood I find and not cedar.

 

There are lists of safe wood online. I can't tell one from the other, so I buy driftwood.

 

There are lists of safe wood online. I can't tell one from the other, so I buy driftwood.

I know. I'm not going to waste 30$ on driftwood since I already have some, and sticks provide a windy and more natural look.

 

. . . Should I take the bark off? How do I tell if it's a safe type? I'm pretty sure oak is the most common nearby but coniferous and pine trees are also very common (and are toxic for your fish). Oak varies in color which is a pretty big factor in telling what type of wood it is. I know very little about wood, especially when it comes to smell and pattern/design. Any help is appreciated.

If the bark is still on the wood it likely isn't dry enough to put in an aquarium (unless it's very loose and falling off).

 

I have used some wood which still has bark on. The only problem is that after time it starts to come off and make rather a mess. Otherwise its usually not a problem if the wood is definitely dead and dry (or waterlogged).

 

I have used some wood which still has bark on. The only problem is that after time it starts to come off and make rather a mess. Otherwise its usually not a problem if the wood is definitely dead and dry (or waterlogged).

Depends on what you mean by "a mess". Does it just slowly degrade, and would it harm anything inside of the tank? If it does no harm, I'd rather there be bark in there.

FYI I'm doing a peat swamp biotope for a betta and I'm going to make it as natural as possible, so it doesn't really matter how messy something is unless it's dangerous or hindering in some way.

 

No harm, it just gradually breaks down and will add to the pear swamp effect.

 

All the advice that tells us that cedar and other coniferous woods are unsafe is something I’ve come to question after seeing a few too many pieces of it used in aquariums without any problems.

One chap I met had collected what I think were pine branches and there was no mistaking the lumps of resinous gum stuck to those branches. One of them had half a dozen hardened beads of resin down its length.

Those branches were all in very nice planted tanks full of healthy fish. He told me he had picked all of them out of a local river where they had been at least long enough to lose their bark and get quite weathered In appearance and waterlogged. He was on a very restricted income and even got most of his plants by collecting them and the tanks were really quite charming and the fish looked as good as any I’d seen.

I’ve also seen big hunks of what could only have been cedar dragged out of a northern Ontario lake where it was a hazard to boat navigation. Once out, it was cut into a couple of more manageable hunks, hosed off and it all went into some big aquariums where it looked great and caused no issues.

In the case of the cedar in the lake, chances are good it had been in the water for years. No bark left on it, branches gone and the stubs quite rounded off - so it had been very well exposed to bacteria, fungi and sunshine for a long time and of course, it was totally waterlogged. Even that caused no trouble though I might have worried a bit about contamination from a lake - the guy with the wood didn’t and his fish were nice and healthy long after the wood went into his tanks.

I don’t think I’d feel comfortable using coniferous branches that weren’t at least a couple of years old and very well weathered but based on my own observations I just don’t think they’re the problem that we have all been told they are, not once they’re well weathered.

 

All the advice that tells us that cedar and other coniferous woods are unsafe is something I’ve come to question after seeing a few too many pieces of it used in aquariums without any problems.

Someone (or several someones) might have just assumed that the resin would make it unsafe, without any evidence of it. It's also possible that someone used it in a tank and then had sick fish, but didn't consider that the two might have been unrelated.

 

All the advice that tells us that cedar and other coniferous woods are unsafe is something I’ve come to question after seeing a few too many pieces of it used in aquariums without any problems.

One chap I met had collected what I think were pine branches and there was no mistaking the lumps of resinous gum stuck to those branches. One of them had half a dozen hardened beads of resin down its length.

Those branches were all in very nice planted tanks full of healthy fish. He told me he had picked all of them out of a local river where they had been at least long enough to lose their bark and get quite weathered In appearance and waterlogged. He was on a very restricted income and even got most of his plants by collecting them and the tanks were really quite charming and the fish looked as good as any I’d seen.

I’ve also seen big hunks of what could only have been cedar dragged out of a northern Ontario lake where it was a hazard to boat navigation. Once out, it was cut into a couple of more manageable hunks, hosed off and it all went into some big aquariums where it looked great and caused no issues.

In the case of the cedar in the lake, chances are good it had been in the water for years. No bark left on it, branches gone and the stubs quite rounded off - so it had been very well exposed to bacteria, fungi and sunshine for a long time and of course, it was totally waterlogged. Even that caused no trouble though I might have worried a bit about contamination from a lake - the guy with the wood didn’t and his fish were nice and healthy long after the wood went into his tanks.

I don’t think I’d feel comfortable using coniferous branches that weren’t at least a couple of years old and very well weathered but based on my own observations I just don’t think they’re the problem that we have all been told they are, not once they’re well weathered.

I have another question that's unrelated to the post itself: What are your thoughts on having live daphnia in the tank? That way the betta gets stimulation from hunting and I don't have to feed him as much.

 

I have another question that's unrelated to the post itself: What are your thoughts on having live daphnia in the tank? That way the betta gets stimulation from hunting and I don't have to feed him as much.

I am strongly in favour of just that kind of thing. The fish gets the best quality fresh as fresh gets food + environmental enrichment.

Moina, daphnia or scuds can all work for this. They adore scuds.

 

I am strongly in favour of just that kind of thing. The fish gets the best quality fresh as fresh gets food + environmental enrichment.

Moina, daphnia or scuds can all work for this. They adore scuds.

Alright. Would I have to worry about the fish overfeeding as bettas tend to do if they have the chance? Where can I buy them?

Edit: did more research and 6 PH seems like it's too acidic for any of them. I also don't want them to be overpopulated.

 

Alright. Would I have to worry about the fish overfeeding as bettas tend to do if they have the chance? Where can I buy them?

Can I tell you a tale about that? Guess I can - not like you can say no this instant, right?

I will try to condense It - got a betta on impulse at a club auction. Not the smartest move but hey, I err, therefore I know I am human.

Knew I had no tank set up but also knew I could get one going in very short order and I did have a snail/scud tank he could live in for a few days. It never occurred to me he’d eat the scuds - they are mostly top feeders and scuds are mostly bottom hiders - silly me for being so naive.

The snails were Giant ramshorns with long waving tentacles. Anyway, get home late, pop fish in snail tank once the temperature equalized as the parameters in the bag were not far off those in the tank. Off to bed.

Next morning, two of five snails are without tentacles and the fish looks well fed - poor snails. I removed them to another tank pronto.

I noticed through the day that the fish spent a lot of time vertically oriented, nose down at the bottom. He was eating scuds. In fact he was hunting them relentlessly and eating every one he found.

I got a tank set up for him and gave it two days to cycle using a filter with cycled media from one of my other tanks. Just wanted the water to clear and the plants to settle. The fish kept right on hunting.

Next morning, the fish has a stomach the size of a marble. One would think, oh no, bloat! But no, it was not bloat - it was scuds. I think he’d eaten every scud in the tank! His huge gut went right back down again and by next morning he was shamelessly begging for food in his new tank because I figured if any scud remained alive it would not last long with him hunting for it.

Since that experience, I have never worried if bettas eat a lot of live or frozen foods, which are as much as 95% water anyway. Manmade foods are a whole other problem as they are much denser nutritionally and physically. Soak pellets always so they are more filling and it makes them easier for the fish to eat them too.

It seems to me the fish have a very elastic stomach and are able to take advantage of food that’s plentiful when they find it so the mere fact they eat enough to make their stomachs bulge is not a problem.

It’s only a problem if the bulge does not shrink to normal quite soon as the meal is digested and passes out of the stomach.

I used to keep scuds in their tanks ( they will set up housekeeping and with lots of litlte hiding spots, are very unlikely to all get eaten at any time) and I would drop a nice bunch of daphnia in and most fish go nuts at first but then get pretty blasé about it as they learn the food is still there.

I can see a gluttonous fish like the one I got at auction pigging out bigtime but most of them just ate one here, another there and I’d have to replenish the daphnia maybe twice a week or so.

Here endeth the tale.

Alright. Would I have to worry about the fish overfeeding as bettas tend to do if they have the chance? Where can I buy them?

Edit: did more research and 6 PH seems like it's too acidic for any of them. I also don't want them to be overpopulated.

If you can find local species of scuds they’ll probably do fine. There are so many different species of amphipods that they’re all over the planet In great abundance, both freshwater and marine.

But you can always stick to daphnia too. Aquatic worms (detritus worms if you generalize) are excellent food and there’s always Grindal worms that are quite easy to culture.

Someone (or several someones) might have just assumed that the resin would make it unsafe, without any evidence of it. It's also possible that someone used it in a tank and then had sick fish, but didn't consider that the two might have been unrelated.

Connecting an outcome with a possible cause that’s really not related is very commonly done. Makes sense.

 

Can I tell you a tale about that? Guess I can - not like you can say no this instant, right?

I will try to condense It - got a betta on impulse at a club auction. Not the smartest move but hey, I err, therefore I know I am human.

Knew I had no tank set up but also knew I could get one going in very short order and I did have a snail/scud tank he could live in for a few days. It never occurred to me he’d eat the scuds - they are mostly top feeders and scuds are mostly bottom hiders - silly me for being so naive.

The snails were Giant ramshorns with long waving tentacles. Anyway, get home late, pop fish in snail tank once the temperature equalized as the parameters in the bag were not far off those in the tank. Off to bed.

Next morning, two of five snails are without tentacles and the fish looks well fed - poor snails. I removed them to another tank pronto.

I noticed through the day that the fish spent a lot of time vertically oriented, nose down at the bottom. He was eating scuds. In fact he was hunting them relentlessly and eating every one he found.

I got a tank set up for him and gave it two days to cycle using a filter with cycled media from one of my other tanks. Just wanted the water to clear and the plants to settle. The fish kept right on hunting.

Next morning, the fish has a stomach the size of a marble. One would think, oh no, bloat! But no, it was not bloat - it was scuds. I think he’d eaten every scud in the tank! His huge gut went right back down again and by next morning he was shamelessly begging for food in his new tank because I figured if any scud remained alive it would not last long with him hunting for it.

Since that experience, I have never worried if bettas eat a lot of live or frozen foods, which are as much as 95% water anyway. Manmade foods are a whole other problem as they are much denser nutritionally and physically. Soak pellets always so they are more filling and it makes them easier for the fish to eat them too.

It seems to me the fish have a very elastic stomach and are able to take advantage of food that’s plentiful when they find it so the mere fact they eat enough to make their stomachs bulge is not a problem.

It’s only a problem if the bulge does not shrink to normal quite soon as the meal is digested and passes out of the stomach.

I used to keep scuds in their tanks ( they will set up housekeeping and with lots of litlte hiding spots, are very unlikely to all get eaten at any time) and I would drop a nice bunch of daphnia in and most fish go nuts at first but then get pretty blasé about it as they learn the food is still there.

I can see a gluttonous fish like the one I got at auction pigging out bigtime but most of them just ate one here, another there and I’d have to replenish the daphnia maybe twice a week or so.

Here endeth the tale.

If you can find local species of scuds they’ll probably do fine. There are so many different species of amphipods that they’re all over the planet In great abundance, both freshwater and marine.

But you can always stick to daphnia too. Aquatic worms (detritus worms if you generalize) are excellent food and there’s always Grindal worms that are quite easy to culture.

Connecting an outcome with a possible cause that’s really not related is very commonly done. Makes sense.

I've thought about daphnia too. I just want to make sure either the scuds or daphnia keep a stable population without the betta either eating all of them or too little of them. Does my current setup look good enough for what I'm trying to achieve? (it's not a peat swamp biotope yet, to clarify)

 

The tank looks good. I have never tried to keep Daphnia in a tank with fish, it sounds like a good idea, and would be great if it works, but I don't think they would last five minutes in any of my tanks. However, with just one fish in there its probably worth a try. Water conditions may not be ideal for Daphnia but they may last a few months at least.

 

The tank looks good. I have never tried to keep Daphnia in a tank with fish, it sounds like a good idea, and would be great if it works, but I don't think they would last five minutes in any of my tanks. However, with just one fish in there its probably worth a try. Water conditions may not be ideal for Daphnia but they may last a few months at least.

PH is 7.5, and the water is pretty hard.

 

PH is 7.5, and the water is pretty hard.

With daphnia in a tank if you expect the population to be self sustaining, that’s not usually going to work. Too many get eaten. You need to culture them separately and keep adding more to the tank. You may do better with Moina, which are much smaller but less prone to the boom/bust cycles that many daphnia seem to be prone to. In the wild their numbers explode in spring and then decline dramatically.

In cultures, it’s best to have a few so that if one crashes, you still have one or two in good shape.

Scuds do set up housekeeping and because they hide in the substrate quite a bit, it’s harder for fish to catch them all. My gluttonous betta had easy pickings because the tank they were in didn’t have much on the bottom for them to hide in. I was still learning about how best to culture them at the time.

So some will survive but in a small tank, not enough to keep the fish properly fed, unless you culture them separately and add more to the tank regularly, as with daphnia or moina.

Btw, that tank looks pretty good!

 

With daphnia in a tank if you expect the population to be self sustaining, that’s not usually going to work. Too many get eaten. You need to culture them separately and keep adding more to the tank. You may do better with Moina, which are much smaller but less prone to the boom/bust cycles that many daphnia seem to be prone to. In the wild their numbers explode in spring and then decline dramatically.

In cultures, it’s best to have a few so that if one crashes, you still have one or two in good shape.

Scuds do set up housekeeping and because they hide in the substrate quite a bit, it’s harder for fish to catch them all. My gluttonous betta had easy pickings because the tank they were in didn’t have much on the bottom for them to hide in. I was still learning about how best to culture them at the time.

So some will survive but in a small tank, not enough to keep the fish properly fed, unless you culture them separately and add more to the tank regularly, as with daphnia or moina.

Btw, that tank looks pretty good!

Okay. I don't have any space for another aquarium though, so I'll have to add them all into the tank and see what happens. I guess I'll try scuds first and see what happens. Then I'll try moina and see if that works. Maybe if they do keep up a population but it's not large enough to keep the betta constantly fed, maybe I'll lower feeding time to once a day or once/twice every other day.

 

Okay. I don't have any space for another aquarium though, so I'll have to add them all into the tank and see what happens. I guess I'll try scuds first and see what happens. Then I'll try moina and see if that works. Maybe if they do keep up a population but it's not large enough to keep the betta constantly fed, maybe I'll lower feeding time to once a day or once/twice every other day.

Space is a problem for most of us I think. I have cultured some things in dish tubs parked in closets, under shelves, on shelves right next to stuff that’s stored and it works - if you can find a spot for it that is.
Scuds don’t need anything fancy to culture and daphnia or moina won’t care if it’s an aquarium or a bucket either.

 

You can keep them in a plastic container outside.