Are my pest snails maintaining my fishless cycle?

My fishless cycle successfully completed around 3 weeks ago, but I've not been able to add any fish yet due to the current lockdown restrictions. I've been adding 3ppm ammonia each day in order to maintain the cycle with the hope I can pick up some fish this week or next.

A couple of weeks into the cycle I noticed I'd picked up a couple of bladder snails on a batch of plants I ordered. I didn't really mind as I found them quite interesting and they were helping keep my plants and surfaces somewhat clean. Fast forward to now and I have a 200L tank full of bladder and ramshorn snails - I reckon between 100 and 200.

I had still been introducing 3ppm ammonia each day. Yesterday, before a partial water change, I tested my parameters and to my surprise I had around 0.25ppm ammonia and 2ppm nitrite readings. My thoughts are that now that some of the snails are quite big and the population is further increasing, the beneficial bacteria isn't able to fully cycle 3ppm of added ammonia on top of the bioload of the masses of snails. Do you think this is the case? And if so, should I lower or even stop the ammonia dosage and allow the snails to maintain the cycle? Thanks.

 

I'm not 100% but if it were me, i'd lower the dosasge a little or do it less often as snails create a LOT mess and waste! If you no longer want them, after lockdown you should get an assasin snail (or quite a few!) as i highly recommend them hope someone else can help!

 

No their bioload is much too small to maintain your cycle

 

I'm not 100% but if it were me, i'd lower the dosasge a little or do it less often as snails create a LOT mess and waste! If you no longer want them, after lockdown you should get an assasin snail (or quite a few!) as i highly recommend them hope someone else can help!

Yep, I had planned on picking up an assassin snail when I get my first batch of fish!

No their bioload is much too small to maintain your cycle

OK, thank you. I'll perhaps reduce the dosage a little bit as I'm hoping I'll get some fish in come the end of the week anyway.

 

Yep, I had planned on picking up an assassin snail when I get my first batch of fish!


OK, thank you. I'll perhaps reduce the dosage a little bit as I'm hoping I'll get some fish in come the end of the week anyway.

Dont reduce the dosage keep the same schedule as you have now until you put fish in.

 

What are you feeding the snails?

 

What are you feeding the snails?

I haven't been - I had quite a bad algae outbreak (undoubtedly through inexperience ) which is now starting to clear and they've been thriving off of that.

 

Ok shut the light off. But 300 snails in a 50g shouldn’t raise anything. Are you sure you finished cycling? With the high nitrite and no nitrates it sounds like it’s still cycling.

 

Ok shut the light off. But 300 snails in a 50g shouldn’t raise anything. Are you sure you finished cycling? With the high nitrite and no nitrates it sounds like it’s still cycling.

OK, I'll turn the lights off. And yes, I believe it cycled as of around 3 weeks ago - 3ppm ammonia dosed every morning since then has given 0 ammonia 0 nitrite +nitrate readings as of the following morning.

I do have nitrate readings also, which have increased as one would expect throughout the cycle. Sorry if this was unclear.

If the snails aren't the contributing factor then I'm now thinking I may have dosed extra ammonia on this occasion.

 

Yeah it doesn’t make sense unless you did double dose. To be sure do a 50% water change and retest-the next day.

 

Yeah it doesn’t make sense unless you did double dose. To be sure do a 50% water change and retest-the next day.

Thanks, will do. I have done a water change since and my ammonia and nitrite levels are back down at 0. I've dosed my regular amount today and I'll retest tomorrow to make sure it's all good.

 

How high are your nitrates? If this tank is processing 3ppm ammonia + what the snails are adding daily I would think the nitrates would be sky high unless you are doing pretty significant water changes on a regular basis.

When you are ready to get assassin snails to get rid of most of the snails it is going to take several of them to get the job done. Assassin snails only kill what they can eat so it is going to take several of them to get ahead of the fast breeding pest snails. You may have to help the assassins out by physically removing some of them.

 

How high are your nitrates? If this tank is processing 3ppm ammonia + what the snails are adding daily I would think the nitrates would be sky high unless you are doing pretty significant water changes on a regular basis.

When you are ready to get assassin snails to get rid of most of the snails it is going to take several of them to get the job done. Assassin snails only kill what they can eat so it is going to take several of them to get ahead of the fast breeding pest snails. You may have to help the assassins out by physically removing some of them.

At the moment they're between 20-40, but they have been a lot higher. My tap water contains 20ppm+ nitrates so up until this point it's been a struggle to keep them lower. However! I've now got a Pozzani nitrate filter so I'm slowly abolishing the nitrate levels through gradual PWCs. I'll hopefully have a 0 reading - or close to - by the time I'm introducing the fish.

Thanks for the tip with the assassins. I did read about probably needing several, although I was a bit worried about them breeding instead!

 

At the moment they're between 20-40, but they have been a lot higher. My tap water contains 20ppm+ nitrates so up until this point it's been a struggle to keep them lower. However! I've now got a Pozzani nitrate filter so I'm slowly abolishing the nitrate levels through gradual PWCs. I'll hopefully have a 0 reading - or close to - by the time I'm introducing the fish.

Thanks for the tip with the assassins. I did read about probably needing several, although I was a bit worried about them breeding instead!

Looks like you have the nitrates well under control Strange that you had the ammonia/nitrite glitch but since you said you possible added a bit too much ammonia that could explain it. By the time you are able to get fish in this tank you should have a really strong cycle and big enough to handle fully stocking the tank once you get to do it.

Assassin snails do breed but in my case not as quickly as the pest snails do. I started with a dozen of them in my heavily infested 55 gallon tank. Within about a month what I considered pests were under control. I have since gain a lot of respect for the place they have in our hobby. I had ramshorn snails to begin with and the assassin took care of them quickly. Later discovered I had brought in bladder snails on a plant. The assassins are keeping their numbers in check but miss a few of them.

I found a few ramshorns in one of my filters. I put them in their own home and feed them well to keep them breeding. I don't fear ever being overrun with them in my main tank as long as the assassins are in there. I pull a bunch of them out of their home and put them in my main tank. I put in enough to give them time to do some house cleaning before the assassins find all of them.

Should you go this route and you end up with more assassins than you want or need contact your local fish store and see if they will take them. I have to think most of them will.

BTW: If you have a sand substrate you will seldom see your assassins as they tend to bury in the sand and wait for food to come to them. The do actively hunt though.

 

Looks like you have the nitrates well under control Strange that you had the ammonia/nitrite glitch but since you said you possible added a bit too much ammonia that could explain it. By the time you are able to get fish in this tank you should have a really strong cycle and big enough to handle fully stocking the tank once you get to do it.

Assassin snails do breed but in my case not as quickly as the pest snails do. I started with a dozen of them in my heavily infested 55 gallon tank. Within about a month what I considered pests were under control. I have since gain a lot of respect for the place they have in our hobby. I had ramshorn snails to begin with and the assassin took care of them quickly. Later discovered I had brought in bladder snails on a plant. The assassins are keeping their numbers in check but miss a few of them.

I found a few ramshorns in one of my filters. I put them in their own home and feed them well to keep them breeding. I don't fear ever being overrun with them in my main tank as long as the assassins are in there. I pull a bunch of them out of their home and put them in my main tank. I put in enough to give them time to do some house cleaning before the assassins find all of them.

Should you go this route and you end up with more assassins than you want or need contact your local fish store and see if they will take them. I have to think most of them will.

BTW: If you have a sand substrate you will seldom see your assassins as they tend to bury in the sand and wait for food to come to them. The do actively hunt though.

To tell you the truth, I am actually quite fond of the pest snails I have in the tank - at least I was when their numbers were a lot lower! I'd be quite happy if the assassins didn't eradicate them completely and just helped with keeping the population under control.

I think I just have bladder snails and now what I believe to be planorbis planorbis (I first thought they were ramshorn but their shells are at an angle). There are definitely a lot more bladder snails than the planorbis planorbis.

How fast did you find the assassin snails reproduced? I do have a sand substrate.

 

I have had mine for about 3 1/2 years. I saw my first babies about 6 months after I got the first dozen. Since they spend the majority of the time buried in the sand it is difficult to know just how quickly mine reproduced though. After about a year and a half I pulled 20 or so of them out and sold them. The following year I ended up selling up to 60 of them. I don't know it for sure but I could probably pull out at least that many again if I sifted the sand but maybe not since I thinned the herd way down just last summer.

Some folks have reported getting overrun with assassins a lot quicker than I do though.

 

Thing with assassins is they only eat snails. I had mts in my 30g and somehow also got bladder snails. The bladders were getting out of control. Even feeding them to my clown loaches wasn’t helping. So I got 6 assassins. They first went through the mts than the bladders. Now I feed them snails from other tanks. Only saw one small assassin but imagine there’s plenty in the gravel. Assassins are pest snails so think before you get them. Maybe a snail trap to get rid of them and keep the algae down so they don’t have much to eat.

 

Just a quick update: dosed my regular amount of ammonia yesterday and upon testing this morning I had 0 ammonia but around 1-2ppm nitrite. Ruling out an incorrect dosage previously, I'm now thinking I may have crashed or kicked off a mini cycle by being a bit too keen with my last PWC/cleaning routine. Nitrites are definitely being processed still, but at a slower rate. I'll hold off on introducing any fish until the cycle is back up to speed.

 

Just a quick update: dosed my regular amount of ammonia yesterday and upon testing this morning I had 0 ammonia but around 1-2ppm nitrite. Ruling out an incorrect dosage previously, I'm now thinking I may have crashed or kicked off a mini cycle by being a bit too keen with my last PWC/cleaning routine. Nitrites are definitely being processed still, but at a slower rate. I'll hold off on introducing any fish until the cycle is back up to speed.I'll hold off on introducing any fish until the cycle is back up to speed.

While cycling it is best not to get carried away with cleaning. Once a cycle is firmly established deeper cleaning can be done but until then it is best not to do much more than dip water out and replace it with treated and temp matched water.

 

I'm not 100% but if it were me, i'd lower the dosasge a little or do it less often as snails create a LOT mess and waste! If you no longer want them, after lockdown you should get an assasin snail (or quite a few!) as i highly recommend them hope someone else can help!

Assassin snail. Any experience with it? I just want one (can I ask LFS for a male??) to take care of my algae growth. Bottom line: I don't want them "multiplying".

Regards,
Sonny

 

Assassin snail. Any experience with it? I just want one (can I ask LFS for a male??) to take care of my algae growth. Bottom line: I don't want them "multiplying".

Regards,
Sonny

Yes i have one myself No, you cannot tell the difference between a male or female either. They don't breed extremely easily and it takes time and perfect conditions os i wouldnt worry too much. I only keep one and it has drmatically decreased my snail population. Asassin snails are carnivors and do not eat algae UNLESS there is absoulutely no other food source and it isnt nutritional for them. they eat pest snails, bloodworms and other frozen meat foods, as well as left over fish food that contains meat. I order 10 small pest snails every other month or so to keep a constant supply for mine

 

Yes i have one myself No, you cannot tell the difference between a male or female either. They don't breed extremely easily and it takes time and perfect conditions os i wouldnt worry too much. I only keep one and it has drmatically decreased my snail population. Asassin snails are carnivors and do not eat algae UNLESS there is absoulutely no other food source and it isnt nutritional for them. they eat pest snails, bloodworms and other frozen meat foods, as well as left over fish food that contains meat. I order 10 small pest snails every other month or so to keep a constant supply for mine

You may want to consider setting up something to grow your own pest snails to feed your little guy. I set up a 2.5 gallon jar to breed ramshorns to feed my assassins. My snail jar doesn't have an actual filter. I run an airstone inserted into a pre-filter sponge. I also have pothos growing out the top of the jar. It is filled with roots. The plant keeps the water safe for the snails. I feed these snails well and they continually produce food for my assassins.

 

Hi Mattgirl,
Sorry! I'm asking around a bit and reading about A.S. They are carnivores, so they won't go after my brown algae (only if no protein in and they have no food/choice). I'll get pest snails (how many for 10G tank please?) And about 1-2 A.S. I think I'll "get off" on assassin "assassinating" a pest snail lollllll.

 

Hi Mattgirl,
Sorry! I'm asking around a bit and reading about A.S. They are carnivores, so they won't go after my brown algae (only if no protein in and they have no food/choice). I'll get pest snails (how many for 10G tank please?) And about 1-2 A.S. I think I'll "get off" on assassin "assassinating" a pest snail lollllll.

I only mentioned assassin snails in your other thread because I have them and they help me keep my sand stirred. You could do the same thing each time you do a water change by just running your fingers through it or I think you can buy a tool for doing it. Although the assassins help me out I still stir it occasionally. Now that I have plants with roots spreading out I have to be careful in some places. The snails help me out in those areas.

 

I only mentioned assassin snails in your other thread because I have them and they help me keep my sand stirred. You could do the same thing each time you do a water change by just running your fingers through it or I think you can buy a tool for doing it. Although the assassins help me out I still stir it occasionally. Now that I have plants with roots spreading out I have to be careful in some places. The snails help me out in those areas.

Hello, hello.
I'm so sorry! I think I didn't follow you! My bad. But you just keep giving me tips and valuable info .

 

Hey Mattgirl ,
You know that feeling when you are seldomly logging time when adding ammonia and when testing? I usually test twice, 12hrs apart. 9am (when not at work!) and 9pm (after work). I don't think it's been 24 already but I went from 2ppm to .25. Whatcha say? Hey, all thanks go to you, my friend .